(I think that) NoFap is bollocks

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Deleted Account, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. This is what they do:
    https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?t...d-even-while-wanting-one.276776/#post-2545233

    And just a little part from the post #2 because it amused me:
    It is something I have just been talking about.
    About the level of indoctrination and naivety that most on this forum seem to be sharing.
    + a complete lack of life experience.

    Not a hard evidence. Indeed, it is a very weak one.
    The question is not even worth answering. Please, rephrase it.

    I couldn't find anything that would confirm your words.
    Seems like they had a couple of disagreements with some people online, took some anonymous posts out of context, etc etc, and now are crying wolf.
    But even if it's all true.
    What is the point of filing a lawsuit exactly? Because believe it or not, but a couple of strangers online have no power to deplatform a website. It is impossible. You pay for a website and you have it. The only thing that could possibly deplatform it is a legal action against NoFap, but even then it would not be banned in all countries all at once. They would need an action for every country in the world to ban it completely. In other words, it is too much hustle for too little gain, if any.

    Shutting some idiots' mouths is not worth 200k.
    They can talk, but the dogs bark while the caravan goes on.

    There is so much wrong with this post.

    Hehe.
    And you have received 43,882 likes on this forum.

    Please do not lie.
    This is not what the results said.

    No.
    https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about/about-this-site/
    "We created the site because we don’t like people suffering needlessly simply because they lack critical information for improving their circumstances themselves."
    "This site focuses on porn’s effects on the brain—male or female."
    "This site will help you understand exactly how today’s extreme Internet porn can alter the brain. Armed with that knowledge, you’ll realize that some primitive circuitry in your brain is just trying to do its job when it pushes you toward porn. And you’ll see how to outsmart it and restore your balance."

    What. Are. You. Talking. About.
    How dare you compare theft and rape to a movie industry?
    Do you have any notion what it means to be robbed or raped?

    And I hope you are not trying to tell me that NoFap itself is saying that porn is morally bad, because:
    https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/about/about-this-site/
    "In our view, porn use isn’t a moral issue."
    "No one here cares what you do with your genitals. We do care that you are accurately informed about your brain."

    Yes, I didn't quite put it the way I intended.
    What I meant to say is that marriage served no other purpose but a property preservation/annexation. It was all the same for royals as for the common folk.
    This outdated (and pardon my French, retarded) notion of marriage being the measure of success and maturity is just pissing me off. Especially when I have people forcing it down my throat.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
    "An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages."
    The definition of conversation:
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/conversation
    "A talk between two or more people in which thoughts, feelings, and ideas are expressed, questions are asked and answered, or news and information is exchanged."
    This is exactly what I've been doing all this time.
    If that makes me a troll then very well.

    No.
    This is an online forum. A place where people can:
    "An Internet forum, or message board, is an online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
    So far I have been using it for the purpose it was meant to be used.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2020
  2. Your good at arguing. Although, I think I phrased my question well. You just couldn't come up with an answer to it so you chose it ignore it. I just have one other question for right now: What's the point of this thread? I'm curious, is it to get people to stop doing nofap? Are you trying to find a good reason to start? Or is it something else that I missed.
     
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  3. p1n1983

    p1n1983 Fapstronaut

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    if you are going to quote and critic someone, please also take your time to support your assumptions and opinions. An opinion without support worth less than nothing.
     
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  4. Okay then.
    There are many things that are bodies are apparently not designed to take.
    Sitting, chronic stress in 9-5 job, staring at electronics, physical inactivity, having food always available in the fridge and so on and so forth.
    For you to ask me only about dopamine released when orgasming as a result of masturbation, while simultaneously ignoring other things that we are also not meant to be doing, which I suspect you do on every day, is nothing short of nitpicking and honestly, this is the last time I am even addressing that kind of question.

    While these things and porn and apparently not something we are meant to be doing at all, they are not harmful per se.
    I would also not consider them unnatural. Because we, humans, have evolved to manipulate the natural world and make it adjust to us, not for us to adjust to it. So to me it seems that unnatural = natural.
    And on that note, I would like to point out that natural is not always better. It's actually the opposite. It is the unnatural world that is good for us.
    While too much of everything is a bad thing, I do not think we are exactly meant to receive a certain level of dopamine and no more.
    It is only meant to motivate us to do things that are ensuring survival. So that we have motivation to eat, sleep, have sex, etc.
    While it is true that some people "abuse" the system by eating too much, sleeping too much, having sex/masturbating too much etc, this is not a matter of whether these things are for degenerates or not, but where is the healthy limit and at which point it is going to start to hurt.

    Having sex is much more pleasurable than masturbation, which basically means that the hormones are released in larger quantities, therefore to say that we are not meant to porn and masturbation because hormones is to also say that we are not meant to sex. (If I may put it this way.)

    But it was your opinion that was not backed up by anything of substance.
    My opinions are based on facts and the real world. Not on what I would like it to be.
     
  5. You made some good points. The point of nofap is not to quit porn and masterbation forever, maybe you think that. The point is to help the people who are abusing porn and masterbation control and end their addiction. The people you mentioned who 'abuse' porn and masterbation, those are the people nofap is meant for. Some people decide to quit forever, and that's their choice. The nofap page on rebooting specifically says you can go back to watching porn and masterbating after you have abstained for long enough to end the compulsive habits. Lots of people just choose not to because either they don't want to accidentally overuse it, or because they find that they don't need it.

    Also you didn't answer my other question. The one where I asked what the point of this thread is.
     
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  6. Personally I have never really noticed any real benefit from nofap despite 2 years of practice. Except for:

    -More time
    -No More erection problems
    -More self discipline

    The other benefits that I observed came I think from other habits that I put in place
    I just stopped watching porn because I hate watching people fucking. It's disgusting. And watching people have sex on the internet can't have a positive effect on our health. Whenever I watch porn too regularly, I can no longer have sex with (real) girls. But once again, it's just me and everyone else is different. A lot of people regularly watch porn and have no problems in their everyday life.

    Masturbation, on the other hand, is something else. We don't know.

    But other than that, I understand your initial questions. It's totally understandable. I haven't read everything, though. It was too long.

    I find it honourable to question what one reads or hears. Scientific studies contradict each other. And we are no one to hold the truth. It's so easy to believe all these speakers and personal development coaches say when in reality they're scams.

    In reality, folks, everything we say on this forum is just a reflection of our beliefs. We are so attached to them that we can't stand the possibility of being wrong.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2020
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  7. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    I think you defintley need to stay away from Porn. But not masturbating is not neccesarily essetial - this is unless your mastrbatory habits are still linked to the porn pathways (and assuming you don't overdo the MO).

    Unfortunately, coming up to 3 years no PMO, i'm not experiencing any significant benefits. Don't know why. (and yes, I have a healthy and productive life and I dont have porn substitutes).

    I have been thinking, maybe it's not going to harm my 'progress' too much if I looked at the odd nude picture (not video clips!) After all, as someone who has been well and truely starved of any visual sexual stimuli in the last three years and never been with a woman all of my life to date, it feels unatural.
     
  8. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    Anyway, Norman Diodge is one of the best Neuroplastician out there, and he certainly seen the damage porn can do.
     
  9. Hello @JoshuaGraham, I liked how you answered my last post. Maybe you aren't a troll after all, but imo that depends on your motives ...

    Haven't you realized that this place is designed for people that have overdone it? This is basically a place for porn addicts and people with similar issues. For many here your question "where is the healthy limit and at which point it is going to start to hurt" isn't a question anymore. For someone who has gone far beyond that limit it doesn't matter anymore how fuzzy that limit might have been. Relativism as well as hairsplitting isn't going to a help any addict.

    What I would kindly expect you to do, would be to first realize this fact and secondly to respect the people that have such an issue / addiction, rather than to use their openness (inside this forum) against them. To clarify, if you don't identify yourself as a porn addict or someone with a similar issue and you put into question, even ridicule what people here reveal of themselves and what they do for recovery, then you put yourself in a higher position and jugde them (while, in reality, whatever you know, you lack the experience of every addict). Naturally such a behavior will be considered as trolling, verbal abuse or disrespect by many!

    But it seems to me (a little bit) as if it's not your intent to attack addicts as such, but rather that you want to provoke discussion about .. I don't know .. how to approach porn, recovery and also lifestyle topics !?
    I find that you're not very clear about this. And I wonder, where should a debate about all and everything about "nofap" lead to? If you understand what I mean. Maybe you could just frame the topic a little more precisely.

    By the way, I can totaly relate to some of your points since I stumble upon strange statements all the time that upset me. But I'm not looking for them. I try to ignore them.
    I also admit, I may be a little "brainwashed" myself, after years on this forum. But really, I prefer that to the brainwashing of internet porn. I'm a sexual being and I may have my kinks and all and that's ok. Even some experiences I made with porn were ok. But the way porn f*cked with my brain and my social life wasn't ok. Oh, by the way, of course porn is not the reason for my problems. Porn addiction or call it overconsumption of porn for all I care can be considered a symptom but it's also a major issue in itself (or can be) which creates new issues. That's common sense in recovery, or should be.

    On brain chemistry: we're not trying to all become amateur neurobiologists. It's just about some basic models that help to understand own behaviors and addiction(s) better. It helps to understand yourself, you know.

    Nothing against a debate, by the way. And sorry if I have been overly agressively before!
    Are you interested in my stance on masturbation?
    Is masturbation (per se) harmful? Probably not. But neither is not masturbating or less masturbating. I'm actually not that interested on the Science on this matter.
    What we deal with here (apart from risky and compulsive masturbation habits) are two things: first, masturbation as part of "pmo" - the habit of masturbating to porn. Secondly, the choice of "no masturbation" independently from "pmo".
    What is to say against such a choice? It's a matter of lifestyle. Compare it to meat: someone has eaten meat all his life, now he tries to live without it. It's a diet, an experience, not an ideological stance.
    Well some are ideological about it, some become obsessed with it. I don't think that's good.
    But some may become a little crazy about it, write some obscure things in an anonymous forum but in the end learn something and actually achieve something of value for themselves: get rid of old habits, become more disciplined and content, grow up, or something like that. It's not all black and white, is it?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2020
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  10. You're not wasting your time with pmo. You have, as you say, a healthy and productive life. Great! What other "benefits" do you expect?
     
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  11. Right. Nevertheless self-help groups and internet platforms like this are important too. Up to a certain point, it's alright to try to deal with shit on your own and manage to find yourself support and so. Of course there's a limit to this, when professionals should be consulted.
    Sure.
    What will happen when a sexually frustated guy who used to sit at home watching porn and masturbating for hours stops with these activities and replace them with others like exercise and socializing? Will he suddenly be courted by a lot of women? Probably not. But will chances are higher that he improves his social and his sexual life?

    What about a guy who doesn't watches (too much) porn but still is sexually frustrated and compensates this with quite a lot of masturbation (and fantasizing). Is quitting masturbation his only option to get over his sexual frustration? Probably not.
    But what if he decides to "do nofap", stop masturbation and make other lifestyle changes, with the hope to get it going with the girls.
    Will chances are higher that he improves his social and his sexual life?

    By the way, there's certainly a placebo effect involved. But isn't even the placebo effect going to help this guy? (Don't underestimate placebo effects!)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2020
  12. I think it was given to you. Someone posted a lot of links to study. Certainly they proved something ...
    In the end, what matters is what you are willing to take for a proof. You are free to believe whatever you want. So it's all up to you.
    I don't know. Maybe the existence of this forum and the testimonies of porn addicts proves to you that there's a danger in porn, which you wouldn't have recognized otherwise. Maybe it proves to you that you can consider yourself lucky to not have those issues and wise (or lucky again) that you didn't got involved with extreme kinds of porn. Maybe it proves to you that you're well advised to be careful with porn consumption, because nobody is fully immune.
     
  13. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    What benefits do I expect?? My full erection for a start! Also, it would be nice to feel the good feeling hormones when I look at a beautiful women when out and about.
     
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  14. p1n1983

    p1n1983 Fapstronaut

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    Mine too, so tell me what is your world like and we can exchange opinions.
     
  15. Oh! That's understandable. Maybe you need other ressources now to recover further, since you pretty much rocked your nofap reboot already. I mean, you rock, man!
     
  16. Anecdotal evidence is useful to the individual. We don't need to prove that NoFap makes everyone's life better. We only need to show that it has made our own lives subjectively better. And it has for me - therefore I don't need a formal proof. The statement "NoFap is bollocks" is definitively not true in my case.

    Let me put it this way. If my grass gets cut every time I snap my fingers, then I can throw out my lawnmower. It doesn't mean that you need to throw out your lawnmower as well. Does my subjective experience imply anything about what will happen to other people when they snap their fingers? No, but it is certainly useful for me. No one is saying that NoFap will improve everyone's life. Maybe it is "bollocks" for some people, but it isn't for everyone.
     
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  17. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    Other resources? Yeah... you mean like a GF!? Those are like gold dust even before the lockdown!
     
  18. I don't know man! Re-assess the problem(s) and find a fresh approach maybe. Or go to a doctor.
    Psychological: as long as you don't have sex don't worry too much about the erection. I know it's scary. But an erection is not what will get you a GF or sex. At the moment you don't need an erection (I guess) and maybe yes, maybe a GF can and will handle this problem for you (pun intended ;)).

    Very nice comparison, @FellatiousD!
    But remember to be careful with your fingers when handling the lawnmower - as long as you haven't got the snap-ability :D;)

    For me also, personal what we do here makes sense. For me personal the statement "nofap is bullocks" is in itself bullocks.

    But it's good to think some things through at times, question old believes or being challenged about it.
    I don't need any further proof, that stopping porn is beneficial. That is true for every addict and it's probably also true for many that don't have crossed the line of addiction yet.

    There may be exceptions. Like for example the porn addict who's girlfriend has been kidnapped by an evil maniac to the stronghold on an island where he tries to build a super weapon. I mean in the case that the evil maniac threatens the porn addict to kill his girlfriend if he don't do pmo.
    In that case the addict better gets his pants down. But even then, pmo'ing is not a longterm solution and some other measure must be find to foil the evil plot.
    ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 16, 2020
  19. When it comes to "fapping", I mean MO alone, I admit I really don't know if stopping the habit will make someone physiologically more prown to look for a real partner and real sex or if it rather results in a reduced libido.

    But at least it seems logical to me, that after flatlining the libido will come back to where it was (bc of homeostasis). Given that one has then really changed habits (no masturbation, no porn) the biological need to reproduce will still be there and urge for release. As long as one doesn't only exchange the old thing for a new fetish one can thus reboot ones sexuality. But it's merely speculation. Do we know what happens physiologically when one quits masturbation - I mean scientifically proven findings?

    As obvious as it is, I should add that not everyone who masturbates has sexual or social problems.

    It's always good to remind oneself that not fapping or not watching porn alone isn't the answer to all your problems. (I reminded myself right now)

    Social and psychological issues must be dealt with on a social and psychological level. Maybe even through therapy.

    Resolving to stop masturbating just because other people do the same is very questionable.

    We need good reasons and intrinsic motivation.
    I realized some of my reasons were too weak because I didn't truely believe in them.
    But I have good reasons to stop masturbation or at least reduce it and those reasons don't come from science or what someone told me but rather from experience.
     
  20. So? Does that mean anything? It's just a number.
     

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