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Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Castielle, Nov 16, 2019.
So... Would you say that... You don't understand that reference?
Sorry, I'm just having my own fun.
Otherwise I agree, but please don't use the term "toxic masculinity". There's nothing masculine in toxic behaviour. We don't want toxicly behaving men to think that their bullshit is somehow manly, do we?
That term singles out toxic males (with their false beliefs/attitudes), it doesn’t mean “masculinity” itself is toxic, same thing as toxic femininity which does in fact exist. Many men have toxic ideas on what being masculine or even just a man in general is, never showing any emotion/crying, being aggressive, etc. Almost everyone should know what the meaning of that is.
The problem here is that people won't take it that way. Most of the people misunderstand the meaning of toxic masculinity. I don't really see the point of differentiating between gender stereotype -related toxic behaviour and other toxic behaviour, but I see repeatedly how misunderstanding of the term divides people who agree on a fundamental level. It's a lot of unnecessary trouble and I just don't see what is the positive side of using that term.
I’ve never seen someone take it the other way, all I’ve ever seen it used for is men being toxic in regards to what I said. By using that it at least highlighted an actual problem among men, more people are aware of that and speaking out against it thanks to that. I don’t see an issue with using it, much like toxic femininity needs to be used more to highlight our shite as well.
You haven't? That's interesting. I wonder which one of us lives in a bubble. Propably both.
Usually when I see the term being used, it's either by someone who is against feminism, because they think that feminism is misandry, or by someone who claims to be feminist, while they are clearly just misandrist. Both of the afore mentioned types use the term in the wrong way and it's clear that there are a lot of people who take it the wrong way.
But I do admit that it could be that I just usually happen to stumble on the wrong types of people.
Well the only folks I’ve seen that literally don’t understand what it means, are the very people I use it against. Everyone else so far seems to grasp what that entails, but the ones being toxic lash out and get angry. lol
It’s either we use that word and people quickly understand, or people would literally have to explain that their behaviour is toxic every single time. Makes it easier imo.
I mean if you do a quick search you’ll find this:
So I’m not sure how folks are apparently confused.
Oh wow, thanks for deleting the truth.
Fair enough, but I've explained further multiple times throughout the thread. So acting like I haven't been clear is just silly. I've explained myself very clearly many times. It's not my fault if people don't read what I've said or don't understand it.
Edit: also, I just read back my initial post, and I definitely emphasized leadership as a problem. I really don't know why you didn't get that from what I posted. I talked all about how Alexander should run things differently around here, because it's giving his entire site a bad name for him and the mods to allow this stuff and not take it seriously. O said that in my very first post, and elaborated on it further many times. So... not sure what to tell you.
You can keep repeating same stuff again. Where I come frome is my background. Not just country, but place where I'm from, the childhood, stuff like that. And I'm not saying you don't have to have feelings. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is it's not manly to allow females bully you like they did it here to you. And then you just are really thankful to a female, who STOOD UP FOR YOU. Maybe this is where we don't understand each other. I guess we think mostly about the same shit, but maybe we don't. Maybe I'm just too immature, which I don't doubt at all, but maybe my beliefs are stupid. So what's next? We're going to just endlessly fight about it? I said what I wanted to say and that's all. Things escaleted to wrong way cause I guess I said some stupid shit or something. But is it a reason for us to just spit some "facts" on each other? You're American, that's obvious. I'm from Eastern Europe. No way we gonna agree on so many things as you would agree on with an American. Simple.
Have a good day.
It became increasingly clear in the following posts what you meant, but it can be lost in the first one, and that was the one most people responded to.
Again, I think you have a brilliant view that most people would agree on, but you can come across as a bit hostile and condescending, which I'm sure is not your true intention. Also, I personally didn't care for the "it's such a shitty forum, I won't even respond to my own thread"-kind of attitude. It pretty quickly put a lid on what could have been a pragmatic discussion about how to make a better community, or rather, how to follow through on how to regulate certain threads.
You were pretty quick with patting yourself on your back for being the only one to react against bullying and sexism, and while I'm sure you've been indispensable in accomplishing a change for the better in here, let's not forget about all the brilliant members who, by responding to you and others, greatly have helped this community along. Many of them tried to say that they do agree with you, but they also experience things differently simply due to the fact that they focus more on constructive threads than on more controversial ones. That's at least my interpretation. It doesn't mean that what you are doing is wrong or bad, quite the contrary, and it would be a shame if you left since I'm sure you are a valuable and greatly appreciated member.
Thanks, the day is going good.
My undergraduate degree is in international business; I work with different cultures for a living. If you read my journal you will see that. I Was born in the us, but my mother is an immigrant, I grew up in France, but I work in 30+ countries covering Europe/USA/Latin America now, and have a house in Texas. Presently I speak four languages working on my 5th.
Because of my background— I say : Don’t tell me I can’t agree with you because you are from Eastern Europe. —- that’s just bullshit. You can be from mars but you should respect women. (Literary pun intended).
This country (USA) certainly has people Here from yours —even if yours doesn’t attract many from my country. And because usa is an example of many cultures working together—- we should be able to come to an agreement.
The issue that’s WRONG with your thinking (and this is not fighting it’s called a discussion), is that women here have a right to have an opinion.
If I get stepped on in the process I don’t have the right to shut them up by intimidation just to feel better. That’s what I would call bullying.
they can disagree with me, that’s their right. I’m sensitive and have learned to accept that’s my issue and trigger—- I don’t have to flare up my chest and go Trump-level-5-nuclear.
In a free society—- people enjoy this freedom.
we often refer to it as freedom of speech.
It is not my duty as a man to BASH a group of women who disagree with me. In fact, it is the stupidest move to make if I want to persuade them that my view is right.
Specifically—-Women here in nofap have been hurt, lied to, and gaslit for years to where they are antagonistic and sensitive. An asshole-attitude like the one your appear to promote—- where a person is pompous and determined to defend their cred as a man (indifferent to his female audience) is not only arrogant but pointless. Inside the SO forums many people are very present with their pain and will not be able to hear past it— and thats why a fellow female to gently point out a “group-think” fallacy is uniquely needed here.
you are hung up on how big and low your balls hang... which just blows my mind. Don’t hide behind “I’m European and we all have big balls here.”
.. at least you admit being immature and uninformed.
as the saying goes: “it’s better to be ignorant and silent, than open up your mouth and remove all doubt...”
For real, when I first came here I sounded a lot like you. I wish you the best in your path to sobriety. I hope I wasn’t overly harsh too—just trying to cut past the understandably high levels of testastarone.
But when it comes to calling out toxic behaviour, the only people who's reaction matters are the ones behaving toxicly. If we really want to get rid of toxic behaviour, it's the people behaving toxicly that need to change, and the only way to help them do it is by talking about the toxicity of their behaviour in a way that they can understand. In that the term toxic masculinity seems to fail over and over again, because the people who behave toxicly and think it's manly will take it as an affirmation that their behaviour is indeed masculine and that people complaining about it just hate men.
To you not getting why people are confused about the meaning of the word: a lot of people don't really do research. Like at all. That's also the reason for fake news and conspiracy theories being so popular nowadays.
Well, I think we know why the adult industry is winning. We can’t even get along ourselves, how are we supposed to take on the task of reversing societal decay?
We're not. I don't know about you but I'm here to fix a problem of mine and not to save the world.
my 2 cents on this? is a whole bunch of arguing and name calling if i wanted that i would turn on my tv to CNN
Hey hey, no problem with what you've said, but... I'm not saying you can't agree. I'm saying it's just two different backgrounds we're coming from and two different opinions, also two different brains, but not that I'm not okay with you having your shit to say or to the other way. Also, for me it doesn't seem that Europe has bigger balls than USA. I mean, in some ways we have big ballsacks, in some ways you do. I don't think like it. Of course, in Latvia, where I live, there's different opinion on gay people, on people like James Charles, but... It's not that we have huge ballsacks overall. And I'm not bashing on women because they disagree. I was just pissed at how Castelline or whatever her nickname is (don't remember), appeared to me to be really mean and angry lady. That's kind of it. My immaturity I guess hides in those long texts and smart ways of explaining things. I guess it's also the fact that I'm being more emotional and using not so much brain as I should.
That was not my attitude at all. I explained to you why I said that, and everyone who saw the abuse I was getting on that other thread completely understands that and supports me in that. You didn't see that thread, so you don't understand. That's fine. I tried to explain it, but whatever. I'm obviously responding and having a conversation, so clearly I don't have this attitude you speak of. I'm sorry if that was unclear in my initial post, but I've done my best to explain it as well as I can since then.
Other people here have still been perfectly able to have a conversation. Also, as I said, you didn't see the other thread and the abusive language there, so you just don't understand. I was pretty angry at the time, and anybody would be angry with the things multiple people were saying to/about me. I've tried to be as clear as possible, and I've done the best I can to have a conversation and not get riled up by anyone. But I'm still a human being, and I'm sorry, but I'm not a robot when multiple people are hurling misogynistic abuse at me left and right when I never did anything to them.
It's just a little frustrating for you to almost act like I'm overreacting, when you don't even seem to know what I'm reacting to. So I don't see how you can judge as if I'm overreacting when you would probably feel the same way if you had seen the things I've seen. Or maybe you wouldn't, and that's fine. But I'm just doing my best here. I really have no fight with you, and I'm confused as to why it seems like you have a fight with me. If I'm wrong about that, then good, maybe this is just a misunderstanding. I'm doing my best to stay out of arguing and anger in a sensitive subject, but I'm not perfect in that, and I've never claimed to be. I'm just trying to fo my best here like everybody else.
I never said I was the only one at all, nor am I patting myself on the back. You're just full of judgements, aren't you? There are plenty of people who have spoken out about these things, and I'm grateful for them, and I have told them as much. And they've told me that they appreciate this thread and are glad I posted it.
How am I forgetting about them? I haven't forgotten about them at all. I don't understand why you're up on your high horse, looking down and judging me for things I've never even said or done.
Yes, they did. I'm fine with people saying that. Everyone is allowed to take whatever path is right for them. What I'm not okay with is people telling me I need to take their path too, when I don't believe it's the right path for me. I appreciate the advice, but I don't need to agree with it and follow it if I don't think it's right. How is that wrong of me? I didn't insult them, I didn't say they're wrong or stupid or anything. All I did was say that I don't think it's the right path for me, and did my best to explain why. Idk what else I'm supposed to do.
I don't really understand this part of your post. Your entire comment, and the ones before, make it seem like you have some kind of problem with me and think I'm doing something wrong. But then you tack on the end that you don't think I'm doing anything wrong. So I don't really understand the point of anything you're saying. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just genuinely confused.
It's not wrong of you to speak out against misogynic behaviour, or any behaviour you find insulting or wrong. Nobody is saying that you are wrong. Some have questioned the argumentative tone in your posts, and that's all. I saw your original thread (guess you are referring to the "white knight"), but only the first posts before the thread was removed, so I understand that there is frustration that have kind of spilled over into this thread.