Is it possible to use your wife as a P-Sub? (potential trigger)

I dont see it as a ridiculous question at all. We are coming from a place of pain and working on our understanding of things.

My husband has been doing the same thing. Sorta. Anytime a thought comes up that is not about me, he diverts it to something neutral. If he is successful, he then "rewards" himself with thoughts of me. If he is not successful, he continues until he is. This helps to recode what is rewarding and what is not.

My husband and I attempted hard mode numerous times and failed. We have not gone the karezza route either. After this last confession, we decided that hard mode is best and are almost a month in. This gives me time to work on my own anxiety, pain, and hurt, while he works on himself. I get the need to connect and feel close, and that was also why we kept failing. I was left the same way as you. Did he think of others? Was he unloading a buildup of energy that he had to try to redirect to me? All sorts of anxiety and depression that made me feel further to him rather than closer. That is why we are trying hard mode this time. I think of it as a way to get back to zero in the sex department, rather than trying to start at 50 or 60. My husband also used to tell me he didn't think of others while being intimate with me, but I later found out that was untrue. It was not due to his withholding the information, however. It was because he forgot. It was me who recognized the patterns that brought it forward. If your husband says he didn't think of anyone else, it could be that he doesn't remember if he did or not. It can't be compartmentalized in the way they describe because the whole brain works as one unit. If thoughts did come, he could have diverted them in the moment and doesn't remember them.

Your husband and mine have a lot in common. My husband didn't see himself worthy to participate, just wanted to watch it happen. This is also due to low self esteem, low self worth, hatred towards himself, etc. from his past. His expectations off screen whenever he saw a woman was that they were going to do something that he could watch, not participate in. My husband and I didn't lack in the having sex life department prior to his D-day either, which was also surprising to me. What did lack was the, um.. how should I say this. His "friend" wasn't as tall as it should have been. That, was the biggest surprise.

I wouldn't see it so much as a "hit" as I would as a redirection since the amount of dopamine that is released during regular sex isnt as much as they get from O-ing to P. I totally get where you are coming from though. I felt like my husband was using my body to O to these other girls he saw. It wasn't completely wrong to think that because in a way it was exactly that. However, because of their addictions, they feel it is separate. To put it in the context of my husbands issue in a way that isn't sexual, my husband is afraid I'm going to hurt him, shame him, break his heart, leave him. He has not placed his full trust in me since he's met me. Why? I've never done anything that would indicate I would do any of that to him. It is because it has happened to him before with a few ex girlfriends. Put this together with insecure attachment to his parents and now you have a man that has a hard time trusting any woman. Although he does not consciously think about these aspects of his past, they impact how he is today. Nothing occurs in a vacuum. Nothing is truly separate. My husband was using my body without realizing he was using my body. This was another reason for hard mode.

I have read in several places that experimental sex releases more dopamine than vanilla sex, and it COULD be used as a way to replace the dump they get from P(still to a lesser extent). I considered trying a few things with my husband, but I feel like if I do, I will be setting the standards for that too high, and we need to work at getting back to baseline levels. So we will be doing just vanilla until later in our marriage and recovery when I feel as though doing something like that will be beneficial rather than harmful.

I know it super hard because we are so torn between our own healing and wanting to be there for our husbands. My advice would be to work towards a hard mode for as long as possible to get the things back to basel levels. He has a modified protein in his brain, DeltaFosB. This is the one that needs to get back to baseline and the only way to do that is for him to abstain from sexual stimuli.

When my husband first told me he wanted to go hard mode, I was all like "but what about meeeee?" LOL. We made it about 3 days. I found myself TRYING to do things to get him to have sex with me. The second time he wanted to go hard mode, he continued to watch YouTube videos that had stimuli in them. So of course, the only way to react to that was to have sex with him, right? That plan backfired because it didn't stop him. After he finally gave up videos, movies, music with sexual content, social media, did we finally decide to try hard mode. I was still hesitant, but, like I said, after his confessions a few weeks ago, my sex drive was laid to rest and I am now on board. It isnt easy to do, and if not for his confessions, we would have more than likely ruined this streak as well. We women are emotional creatures and we crave that connection. I would definitely try though if you can. It will be best for both of you in the long run, providing you are still working on other aspects of the relationship in the meantime, such as communication, rebuilding trust, comfort in each other, if that makes sense?

Sorry for rambling so much!

 

This is where therapy, such as Gestalt, comes in handy. It teaches them to go back to that time when x happened and talk to the little boy that was themselves, as the adult self. My husband has been practicing this over this last week or so. It would probably be best to have a therapist do this with him rather than him doing it himself, but you get the idea.
My husbands mother was very passive. This led to her being very passive aggressive. When she was visiting here last, she would do little things to try and get under my skin. My oldest sister was the queen of passive aggression so these little things only made me laugh, which annoyed her more.
Working in his past is super important as well. Do you know if his current therapist is doing this with him at all? This could be a next step if not, once the addiction therapy is done if it can't be done side by side.
How you react to him is not your fault. Men who have insecure relationships with their moms do tend to seek out women who resemble it to an extent. It is because that is what they are primed for as children. They often are unaware of this. It isnt something you should blame yourself for, however. How you react and how he responds to your reaction are different things, if that makes sense?
I used to remind my husband of the firmness he received from his father. I only get this way when I'm mad though. It became a cycle because he felt like he had to rebel against me as he used to do to his father.
We do have a lot in common, I agree!

 

This is partially why my husband relapsed after being "clean" (I use that word loosely because he was still doing other stuff) for two years. Watched P for 3 nights in a row. He couldn't bring himself to stand up to her. I didn't argue with her, but I did expect him to stand his ground. She came here to see a doctor. We paid for her doctor bills and all her expenses while she was here. My hours were cut at work so when it came time to take her home, we were short on money. She asked around and raised around 300 dollars, but wouldn't give it to us. My husband asked his dad (parents not together anymore) and his dad sent some money. His mom found out and tried to take that too! That was when I got mad. I told him if he gave her any of that money, she was going to have to find her own way back home. He finally stood his ground after going back and forth with me about it for several hours. He thought I was making him choose between me and his mom. No dude, I'm making you choose between giving your mom money that isn't hers and eating for the next week. He then decided eating was important. I had to completely break it down and separate it for him to see that it was not a me vs mom thing. Ugh it still makes me mad that she did that. She then cleaned out all my kids snacks from the cabinet and took those with her too, knowing we would be struggling with keeping food on the table.

Anyway, so yes, Gestalt and first person therapy are options to look into. It does help heal from past traumas so it could also help you too.

 

Husband and PMO addict here. The addict needs to re-direct the reason for sex with wife from a dopamine hit or an O release to creating emotional connection. If sex is framed as "intimacy" and not just physical activity between two bodies, then the addict can create a pathway to really being with his wife (ie. looking her right in the eyes during sexual activity). Otherwise what might be happening is husband is viewing wife as if she were the body part in his favorite video. And that is a "P-sub".

 

Husband and PMO addict here too. I'm 44 days into my current no PMO streak. I desperately want to have the intimate sex with my wife that you describe above. During this journey over the last year or so I've honestly managed to have that just a handful of times. Mostly I feel no desire. I used allow myself to fantasise during sex in order to just give her the sex she wanted. I didn't want to do that, but I didn't want her to feel unwanted, undesired, unsatisfied, so I would do it secretly and then it would leave me just seeking PMO. So I don't do it anymore. But instead I have no desire. She's waiting patiently for me with constant reassurance from me. But what do I need to do besides abstain from PMO in order to gain desire in sexual intimacy? When I've felt desire as you describe it is so spontaneous and I can't catch the conditions that allowed for it.

 

@Paspaley Since this is someone else's thread and topic, I will direct message you to offer you some answers to your question.