Is "Onanism" Masturbation?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by greenmtnboy, Feb 8, 2020.

  1. greenmtnboy

    greenmtnboy Fapstronaut

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    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/onanism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onan

    Clearly what Onan did as quoted in the Bible was not masturbation strictly speaking. He refused to complete coitus with his mate, but determined to "spill seed". He was supposed to do something which was logical, refused for selfish motives and died.

    Strangely this term "onanism" attached to those who masturbate, which does not make sense. Biblically considered, "uncleanness" would be more applicable with men or women. But Biblically considered even normal and "sanctioned" coital sex makes both male and female "unclean" with a lot of fluids part of the activity.
     
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  2. spectraltiger

    spectraltiger Fapstronaut

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    You're absolutely right. It doesn't make any sense at all.

    It was really just some way for the church to condemn masturbation without having to stray from scripture. I mean think about it, why would anyone follow something the church is saying if they have nothing to back it up with? So, the church found something that made sense on some level, and said 'Ah hah! I told you so.'

    Now, that's not to say they were entirely wrong about masturbation, as we've found out.
     
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  3. randomname3

    randomname3 Fapstronaut

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    There's nothing wrong with sex with your wife, unless you're refusing to ever have children with her. That's the whole point of marriage is to produce and raise children.
     
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  4. Eh... not necessarily. While it's true that many get married when children become part of the picture, some marry simply to celebrate their relationship.
     
  5. Infrasapiens

    Infrasapiens Fapstronaut

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    I thought the purpose of marriage was to make formal the fact that you want to spend the rest of your life with only one person. If I only wanted the children, I'd adopt.
     
  6. greenmtnboy

    greenmtnboy Fapstronaut

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    If you are expanding love great; many have trouble having kids or don't believe they can afford them, or fear the stresses in today's world.
     
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  7. I would be careful about making a statement like that without proper explanation of what "unclean" means in the Old Testament, Biblical sense of the word. We are taking about ceremonial uncleanliness, not moral uncleanliness or physically being dirty. There are many things that make someone ceremonially unclean, and unable to enter the temple until they are "clean." Women being on their period, for one.

    It's definitely not saying that sex with your spouse is bad. Obviously women having their period is not morally wrong in any way, nor is having sex with your spouse.

    Yes, this is a common misrepresentation of this story. He was punished for directly disobeying God, not for masturbating. Whether or not masturbation is against God really has nothing to do with this particular passage.

    Personally, I think there are many reasons we can see form the Bible that would suggest masturbation is wrong. But I don't believe it's ever stated explicitly. Definitely not in that passage. That passage isn't about masturbation, it's about a man who refused to trust and obey God when He gave him a direct order.
     
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  8. MLMVSS

    MLMVSS Fapstronaut

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    Onan pulled out for selfish reasons, because if he had a son with Tamar then the son would be the next heir after Er. But he disobeyed both Judah and God, which directly go against two commandments. It was probably that reason, not the spilling, that ended up with his punishment.

    With that, Onanism is too broad a term for simply anything non-procreational.
     
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  9. greenmtnboy

    greenmtnboy Fapstronaut

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    And then subsequently after Er and Onan died, you wonder how, there must have been a lot of fear centered around this special woman Tamar that the right guys didn't want to procreate with.

    And subsequently when Judah thought he was having sex with a harlot, namely Tamar disguised as such when he had engaged in a physically demanding task, namely shearing sheep in that primitive tool era..They had reproductive coitus; Tamar gets pregnant and Judah wants her to be burned as punishment. So when it develops that he was the agent the judgment should have been very severe on Judah.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  10. tommilover

    tommilover Fapstronaut

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    Having said all that, I'd definitely come in my sister in law, you know, since it was the Law and all that...
     

  11. [​IMG]
     
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  12. randomname3

    randomname3 Fapstronaut

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    There would be no point to such an institution. You could just as equally decide to spend the rest of your life with multiple people, or with a different species.

    The point of marriage is that we're a sexually reproducing species (specially created and consecrated by God), and one who needs an exceptional amount of nurturing in childhood, and inculturation into the tribe/people. Everyone has to start as a foolish and helpless baby and no one gets to choose their parents. Thus, marriage enforces a child's natural right to be raised by their parents, holding the father and mother accountable to society for raising that child well.

    Separating sex from marriage and marriage from the raising children is one of the main factors behind the porn industry and all the problems it causes.

    Adoption should only ever be done when it's practically impossible to have a genetic relative raise the children, and must seek to recreate the natural mother and father parents they lost. Thus, good adoption is only our best attempt to replicate real marriage.
     
  13. Infrasapiens

    Infrasapiens Fapstronaut

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    Well there was this asian dude who married an anime character. I wonder how they are going to have children.
     
  14. Stupid people do such stupid stuff. And nature has mercy onto itself by not allowing them to multiply. xD
     
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  15. I agree with the first part, but not the second. People can be married and not have children. Some people are physically incapable of reproducing. Do those people just not matter in your world view? Can they not have a good marriage? Is their marrisge meaningless to you because they don't have children? I think you view is very needlessly close minded.
     
  16. Sure. That would imply that people should only have children when they are married, which I agree with.

    It does not, however, imply that the only purpose of marriage is to have children.
     
  17. greenmtnboy

    greenmtnboy Fapstronaut

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    And that speaks to the social benefit of real people in relationships and marriage vs. porn; it is a joy to parents, siblings and friends, while porn is something not appreciated by them. Not generally a social activity.
     
  18. Your first paragraph, excluding the God comment, I don't disagree with, but you don't seem to understand that children isn't the only reason why people get married at all since this excludes people who have made the personal decision not to reproduce because they either deem themselves unfit parents, believe it would be cruel to bring a child into a world they think is unjust and evil, have no ability to reproduce at all, or what have you.

    Your last post on adoption is confusing. Define "real marriage" and what does "recreate the natural mother and father parents" mean?
     
  19. randomname3

    randomname3 Fapstronaut

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    The whole point of learning is to close in on the truth. There's nothing at all wrong with sticking to the truth while dispelling lies and confusion. And you seem confused on this one.
    There aren't very many people who are completely infertile. Quite often infertility really just means low fertility. So it takes some a lot longer than others to have children, or there's some risk involved. I don't see why we'd need to put a blanket ban on marriages with a plausible chance of procreation.
    The key point though, is that marriage is for the bearing and rearing of children, the future of our society, by their biological parents. If there's no reasonable chance of that happening, all you're doing is trying to cheat your way into privileges meant for family starters. To have a stable society, we have to be able to tell cheaters no, and ignore their hurt little feelings.
     
  20. Uh... what? I was definitely not suggesting anything of the sort....

    That's completely an opinion, not a fact or a "truth" as you suggest. I find your opinion absolutely absurd, and heartless given the fact that, no matter how much you want to apparently deny or dismiss it, infertile people absolutely do exist. And you're calling them "cheaters" if they want to get married? That's dumb. You're welcome to your opinion, but you need to learn the difference between an opinion and a fact. There is no written truth of life that says that marriage is solely for procreation. That's your opinion.
     
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