Is PA an Addiction?

Who cares what some organization says. We here all know it is an addiction and should be treated as such.

 

Fair enough.

I went on the APA website this is the last article they wrote about porn (at least that I could find). It is over a year old by now.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2020/02/religious-moral-porn-addiction

The article is about how religious people are more likely to consider average levels of porn use as addictive. But importantly for your question, They have these lines:

"Such a view may complicate an accurate diagnosis of compulsive sexual behavior disorder (CSBD), which includes porn addiction and detrimental sexual behaviors such as patronizing prostitutes."

"CSBD has been controversial due to conflicting research on whether it is a distinct mental illness. CSBD is not included in the fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, published by the American Psychiatric Association in 2013. In 2018, the World Health Organization included CSBD in the 11th edition of the International Classification of Diseases, a commonly used worldwide standard reference for health conditions and mental illnesses. "

So the APA doesn't include porn addiction as real but the WHO does. Take with that what you will.

 

"Actually, the APA didn’t formally consider “internet porn addiction” for its 2013 edition (DSM-5), opting instead to debate “hypersexual disorder”. The latter umbrella term for problematic sexual behavior was recommended for inclusion by the DSM-5’s own Sexuality Work Group after years of effort. However, in an eleventh-hour “star chamber” session (according to a Work Group member), other DSM-5 officials unilaterally rejected hypersexuality, citing reasons that have been described as illogical. For example, the DSM-5 recommended further study of internet addiction subtype “Internet Gaming Disorder,” while declining to recommend further study of “Internet Addiction Disorder”. In reaching this position, the DSM-5 disregarded both the widespread reports of sufferers and their clinicians of the signs, symptoms and behaviors consistent with addiction, and the formal recommendation of thousands of medical and research experts at the American Society of Addiction Medicine. A bit of history: the DSM has some distinguished critics who object to its approach of ignoring medical theory and grounding its diagnoses in symptoms (rather than underlying physiology). This results in some erratic, political decisions that defy reality. For example, it once incorrectly classified homosexuality as a mental disorder."
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/relevant-research-and-articles-about-the-studies/

data "backed up by science" isn't always correct, especially when you can arrive at the conclusion that it's wrong with your own experiences

 

I think the jury is still out. I have friends who are scientists and they're the first to admit that the world of peer reviewed studies is a strange one. A lot of it is based on funding and there isn't really much of a precedent to fund studies into porn addiction currently. Most of the data is quite old too and doesn't take into account the size and reach of modern pornography. I've discussed this subject with my therapist in the past and he's of a similar mind. Basically (on a scientific level) we really don't know what porn is doing to our brains, but it is not unreasonable to make informed observations based on our own or our collective experiences.

It can be hard determining what information to believe. I've seen a few articles on 'psychology today' that try to paint PA as a myth, citing the same study you mention as proof. To most observers, 'psychology today' seems like a reputable source of information however ANYONE can write articles for it, there’s no bar for entry. I have a friend who has written for them despite having zero experience with psychology - so basically don't believe everything you see.

Ultimately, like @TimeToQuitNow said, it doesn't really matter. Whether you treat it like an addiction or not, the process of quitting/reducing consumption is pretty much the same. It frustrates me just as much as the next person that PA is not taken more seriously when I know first-hand how destructive it is. Things are changing though. My therapist told me that the field of 'porn addiction therapy' is growing, and culturally the conversation is starting to come up more and more through podcasts, TV shows, books etc.

 

Great question. Relevant question. We (humanity) came up with the phrase "porn addiction" around 2005. That corresponds with the invention and widespread dissemination of High Speed Internet Porn, HSIP. As a species we have liked porn for tens of thousands of years, by which I mean, we have recorded it, and some of us have gotten a neurological reward from experiencing it, but we did not put the words "porn addiction" together until the invention of HSIP. Not much, anyway. This is a new invention, a new technology, that we did not have before.

You can Google it. Type:

"Porn addiction": before 2005

You will find two hits in that year.

You can find the words "porn addiction" going back quite a bit before that, on Google, but after that year the phrase "porn addiction" sort of explodes. Turns out the problem is HSIP, not the porn that came before it, or, certainly not the porn that existed before digital porn.

So, the history of porn goes like this:

We had cave walls. Interesting.

We then invented writing, more interesting.

Way after all that we invented photography. Even more interesting.

We then invented movies. Better yet.

We then invented mass publication--thanks Hugh Hefner. Humanity like.

We went on to invent better movies, eventually moving on to CD ROM and DVD. It keeps getting better.

We invented the internet. Slow, dial up, but we liked.

Then, around 2007, we invented HSIP, and bam! What we call porn addiction was born.

It is important to know your history.

But the term "porn addiction" is not helpful. It is inaccurate, and imprecise.

The addiction, if there is one, is to a neurological brain reward event that occurs naturally when humans think of sex, plan on sex, prepare for sex, or engage in sex. Not just sex, but a lot of otherwise healthy, natural, and necessary activities, such as, for instance, eating. The neurological brain reward event is what many call a dopamine high. Nature has preprogrammed our brains to get that high to encourage the most successful survival train any species can have: reproduction. It has worked pretty well for millennia. Not just for humans, but all species.

Then we invented HSIP, and realized we could use it to get that dopamine high artificially. It is really quite a hook.

The thing that is addictive, if it is an addiction, is the dopamine high that porn produces. How does it produce it? It produced it by allowing an individual to watch porn, which in turn allows the individual to think about sex, and thinking about sex is what is rewarded with the dopamine high, because nature figured out that thinking about sex, leads to actual sex, which leads to the end result that is the most successful survival trait any species has: reproduction.

Nature did not plan on HSIP. We have not adapted to that, yet. It is like drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, for some, gambling, for some sex itself. It is a button we can push to get high. We like getting high, even if on some level we hate that we like getting that high.

So, no, porn itself is not addictive. Saying porn is addictive is sort of like saying a person can become addicted to a syringe or a cigarette. They cannot. But those mechanisms are a means to what can be addictive: a neurological reward event. By the way, we, all of us, even without those mechanisms, experience neurological reward events multiple times every day. Every time you get hungry, then eat, you get that reward. Without it, you would not eat.

A huge part of understanding the problem is understanding it is a simple neurological problem made possible by relatively new technology which our brains have not adapted to, yet. Is it an "addiction"? I don't like the word, but it is the word we have. It is 2 thousand years old. I think we need a new word for the problem because the problem is only about 15 years old. Wow, that an $1.25 will get me a Coke at the end of the hall.

Much love.

WillIAM.

 

If porn addiction isn't real then why is it that out of the millions of guys trying to quit very few actually succeed in doing so? Why is it that most can't even make it to 30 days? Why do these guys relapse even when they know that this addiction is causing them severe mental and/or physical consequences? Why do so many experience withdrawal symptoms similar to those trying to quit hard drugs?

It really annoys me when you get these medical shills telling people that there's no such thing as porn addiction, especially these 'sexologists'(and they're pretty much always women) claiming that it's all fake and just men being unable to control themselves. For so many in the medical profession, if they didn't read it in a textbook then it doesn't exist. If gambling addiction is real(which it is) then what good reason is there to say that porn addiction isn't also? So looking at roulette wheels and slot machines is addictive but being able to get off to the hottest women imaginable doing the kinkiest things you could ever desire isn't?

The worst thing about porn addiction is that it's pretty much unavoidable given how sexualised everything is in this world. It's instantly accessible to just about everyone no matter where you are, it requires zero effort and it's free - although many are now falling so far down the rabbit hole that they're willing to pay for it just to get an even higher hit.

It is real.

 

By current medical standards, no. That doesn't mean "porn addicts" can't be diagnosed with impulse control disorders, they just wouldn't be specifically related to porn.

 

That's not really what people are saying. People are saying that there is insufficient evidence/research to officially establish a diagnosis for porn addiction.

 

I like this comment until the last part. It seems defeatist. If the addiction was really unavoidable then we wouldn't be here. We all know that no matter how hard it is we can still break this addiction. I truly believe that. I hope you do too.

 

I am interested where you found this part of the "history of porn". What "standards" of "porn" are you using? Are there scientific studies that you can point me to that allude to this(I know Google is there, but it takes a significant amount of time to sift through everything)? Perhaps some key words that point to the study and/or studies that will help narrow down the search, thanks.

Otherwise, if you came to this conclusion of the beginning of the history of porn on your own, perhaps you can elaborate a bit more. I don't see the "in between" arguments. Thanks!

 

Unavoidable, not unbeatable. It's unavoidable in that sexualised content is everywhere, you have to actively go out of your way to not come across it - unlike drugs for example.

'Not enough evidence' is a roundabout way of saying it doesn't exist.

 

No it's not. The job of science isn't to make conclusions about things that haven't been thoroughly researched. "Not enough evidence" means "not enough evidence."

 

It is possible, the problem lays in the weakness of people. But the harder the obstacle, the stronger you can get. But only if you train yourself.

 

@eagle rising

Rather than rely on me, you can do your own research, and I think doing it will help you on this journey. It is helpful to get educated on this journey.

Let's define porn as any depiction of human sexuality, and let's agree that a depiction of sexuality, once perceived, results in a thought of sexuality, and sexual thoughts result in what is actually addictive: a neurological reward. Why do you like what you like? For some things you like what you like because your brain is preprogrammed to like it. If you did not like to eat, would you? If food did not taste "good", would you eat it? If you had no neurological reward for getting hungry, seeking food, finding it, and consuming it, would you get hungry, seek foot, find it, and consume it? Humanity is less subject to instincts than other animals, but, like other animals, we still have instincts. Nature figured out that thinking of sex leads to sex, and sex leads to the most successful survival trait any species has, the ability to reproduce. It is just that we invented something that does not occur, naturally, in nature; HSIP.

Our reality is that porn has existed since a human could paint on a cave wall. We "like" porn because it makes us think of sex, and sexual thoughts are rewarded with a neurological reward event, aka a dopamine high. For some of us, but not all of us, that can become "addictive", especially since the invention of HSIP makes having novel sexual thoughts, endlessly, possible. Turns out novelty, and the ability to constantly search for the never before seen pornographic depiction are neurologically rewarded. If there was one picture of sex in the world, it would quickly become boring, but the ability to surf and find endlessly new and never before seen depictions...that fuels the addiction.

We recently invented a new technology, High Speed Internet Porn. That's around 2007. This makes getting that high, liking that high, far more available to us than it ever was before. Addictions only can happen when they are available to us; even though you might be susceptible to an addiction, if it is not available to you, you will not become addicted. HSIP made this particular addiction available to many people.

A couple links if you want to explore this.

High Speed Internet Porn and the Experiment Generation - YouTube

Here is an oldy but goody. This video was why I was able to quit porn. I did not know what I was quitting until I watched this video. I was not, really, quitting porn, though I did quit porn. I was quitting getting high. This particular form of "getting high" has been around for a long time, but only became addictive once we coupled porn with High Speed Internet and humanity's penchant for making videos of people fucking. Turns out thinking about fucking produces a dopamine rush, and we likey.

High Speed Internet Porn and the Experiment Generation - YouTube

And here is an extinct link that some fool started a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....

Get educated, get tools, and learn to love withdrawals | NoFap®

Much love.

1ANDDONE

 

I am not "relying" on you. I just asked to be pointed in a direction that would be more efficient, no harm in asking for help is there? I have done research about the addiction, that is why I am where I am and that is why I continue forward. I was referring particularly to the statements I quoted, as I find your conclusions farfetched especially about the cave paintings.

Thanks for the links, in any case. Now, I shall go be a big boy and check them out.