Is porn the problem, or is it just a lack of moderation?

Again with the age thing... why are you being condescending? You have nothing on us - you don't know the depth of our struggle. And apparently, you've just grown up in age and your mind is still that of a resigned child - hey, i practiced it, it works for me... so I'm going to defend it. Just leave it alone... there's no war being fought against sexuality. We're trying to reclaim it... RECLAIM it, it's a personal war CALEB! Personal. We're not the new Al-Qaeda, I think you're treating us like it.

yeah... you could follow your own advise. Just b/c you reached an age doesn't mean you stop learning. So stop thinking you can school us... you have no grounds or experience of your own in PMO that can even be compared to that of the fapstronaut community here, the anguish and pain. Relent Caleb, you're only making it worse for yourself

 

Caleb, in person, if we were to have had this conversation, I'd be so well behaved and civil. I'm never disrespectful towards the elderly. But don't underplay my struggle man, that's not wise. How great can your life be if you're on here and arguing with a 22 y/o about this??? Wow, some miracles your THREE TIMES MY LIFEETIMES of experiences has led to. You came here with alright intentions I assume but just b/c you've internalized something we want to get rid of, doesn't mean you should be jealous of us or bitter in any way. I really hope you have had an awesome life and I'm sorry for the angst but you know, 22 y/o you know how we are at this age. Forgive me. But I still don't think it's NOT right for you to just underplay and minimize the horror we feel on a DAILY BASIS regarding PMO.

 

True, I'm a moron. I wasted my day here on this forums. I still have my youth and you don't and I wasted my day on the forums - I got somethings good today. But this is where I leave you Caleb. Have your gravestone be read, "Argued that masturbation and porn were healthy." It'll be used as a museum spot for how wrong you were.... But if converting fapstronauts to the side of porn and masturbation is your goal here, God help you. You delude yourself thinking you have the upper hand in this debate. Let's get into your food addiction and then, you'll listen as I tell you that I know people who eat, eat and eat and don't gain any weight as I'm sure you know them too. So let's just do that now, it's healthy to binge on McD every morning as long as it's done in moderation

 

this topic goes further than i thought, and it's going too far from a discussion.
i guess you guys are both in "all or nothing" thinking. yes there should be a problem deeper than porn, but that doesn't mean porn isn't a problem, though it's not a root problem. or even if porn is not your problem, it's their problem. one of my friends watches porn and faps one to two times a day, and he's totally fine. but applying what he does to me would ruin my mental and physical health. in this case, porn is my problem, but is not my friend's problem. so we just can't simply say an absolute truth like "porn is bad" or "nothing wrong with porn".

and yeah, people have different beliefs that we can't change them even our logical and rational points sound true. their experiences rule over. honestly i don't see much of people talking about morality here

 

Thank you so much for the save vulture, I woke up today with positive energy and maybe a little too positive to think I could force an idea on the world but the more I engaged, the more negative it became. Who is to know in the ultimate of ultimates, the existence of existences, what the truth of the truths are? I invited the fight outside because I was raging inside. Belittling myself to mindless activity seemed like an easier gateway than to deal with my day to day problems. Sorry to everyone who wen through this, especially Caleb Murdock, I unconditionally apologize. Agree to disagree and yes, porn is my problem. Lesson learned. We fight our own battles, take what lessons you can use from others' battles and nothing more. Godspeed all, take care!

 

to be honest, my life before porn wasn't good. my depression has started before porn. means i already had a problem, then porn step in. porn made my depression worse. porn has brought anxiety disorders to my life. slowly and slowly, i lost control. i still can't forget the first time i watched porn. porn wasn't a problem at that time. i actually enjoyed it. once a week, then twice a week, ... then ... i lost control

nightmares happened everynight, but i didn't blame on pmo. pmo has taught so many lessons (though i still wish i didn't watch porn in the first place). i wish i could know about porn addiction before i started watching porn, but it was too late for that.

and when enjoyment turns to overconsumption. overconsumption turns to disorders. disorders turn into sadness. and finally sadness turns to hate. then we project our uncontrollable emotions on objects. we start hating porn. i hope now you understand those young adults. there's a reason that makes them hate porn, just like me few years ago.

doing this is hard. it's hard to forgive myself for time and money i've wasted. i'm still practicing it. but i tend to agree with this, i don't think this is a fight as they might say. once we can forgive ourselves, we will see something different, and it is a tough job.

 

An important thing to ask is why do some people become addicts while others do not when exposed to the same thing? Some people can look at pron once a day their whole life and not become addiction. Some people can use drugs like heroin and cocaine and not become addicted.

Caleb, maybe food addiction affects the brain in a similar way. As for guilt, society makes people feel guilty about food by 'fat shaming,' so in a way this is similar to the way socially conservative religious nuts view porn. I used to binge on food eating 4000 to 5000 calories a day. I ate a lot of "comfort food," but whenever I noticed I was getting fat, I would excercise more.

The US and all other English speaking countries are suffering from an epidemic in obesity. More than two thirds of adults in those countries, and GErmany too, are obese. Food, like porn, has the potential to do harm, so calling all food bad is like calling all porn bad. It's not porn or drugs or food that are bad by themselves, but the harm they cause in some peolpe is bad. Neuroscientists have found evidence that porn and drugs stimulate the same parts of the brain, the mesolimbic (aka reward) pathway. This pathway starts in the midbrain ventral tegmental area and projects to the nucleus accumbens. When stimulated with porn or durgs, it releases dopamine into this area.

Not only is this pathway involved in addiction but it has been linked to depression. So, it makes sense that depressed people might seek out ways to artificially stimulate this area if there is an imbalance in dopamine or something.

THat said, I'm against making moralistic judgements against porn or drugs, unless people are harmed in producing either. But then you could look at oil and gasoline as evil because the US goes to war to make sure it has enough.

YOu all are doing what you can to try to control your addiction, but look at the root cause of the addiction too. If it is depression, for example, work on fixing your depression.

 

Here the things about porn and relapse

1.Porn
Because of fetish inside it, usage in long run will affect your soul, beside its force your mind to accept that gangbang is the right way, rape is the hottest part, and bdsm is kinky, have sex with literaly everyone in your family is okay , lets your wife being fucked by some stranger is horny. Its break all the moral code that put inside us during the school, when the moral code destroyed and we accept what is wrong is right that where the devil circle begin.

2. Relapse
What made people relapse after cold turkey for while because they dont train their mind at all, every action and though coming from our mind. Lust is part of us, you cant get rid of it, however you can control it and enabled it for good purpouse and valid reason,by doing that you will replace lust with love in the action.

Pure lust without control, is capable to made you literally fucking anything, and mix it with some evil deed its can create new dark stuff , for example : rape

 

This thread is insane. I agree with Caleb that moderation is key.

That being said, both sides seem to be representing the extremes.

Caleb has had a long life with plenty of porn and masturbation, likely (purely guessing) started with traditional media (magazines/vhs/etc.), sees no ill-effects from porn or masturbation, and is concerned the NoFap community is calling for the end of pornography for everyone.

Others seem to be on the other end of the spectrum. Largely folks who grew up on modern media (high-speed internet porn, image boards, niche/fetish/extreme content easily accessible), feel porn is the cause of their issues (or at least didn't help things), and wants to educate others on how dangerous it is.

Caleb, no one is coming for your porn... People have tried to demonize it and make it illegal since before you were born. And people have defended it and kept it going for just as long. Same thing happens with guns, alcohol, etc. Just chill.

This group is largely an echo-chamber full of self-selection bias. The reality is that everyone is different and your mileage may vary...

This is NoFap -- not NoFun. I get that people (including myself!) are working through their own issues and struggles. And a bit of healthy debate is fine. But both sides need to chill...

If you aren't suffering from severe issues from porn, you still need to be respectful of those who are or have. On the opposite end of that, even if you and others here feel strongly about the detrimental effects of porn, sharing your stories is great and helpful, but you still need to be respectful of those who haven't experienced that and potentially never will.

Part of the goal behind NoFap (as I interpret it) is to not be socially-crippled or adversely-affected by porn, masturbation, or whatever your particular issues are... If you can't deal with criticism from others without having to prove your views to them or point out the flaws you perceive in their views/actions, then you probably need to focus more on your own self-improvement rather than spending time in these threads.

I am here for me and that is my focus. Maybe more people should do that, too.

NoFap doesn't need to be defended. If it has merit, it will provide benefit. If it doesn't, it will die out. Who cares? All you should concern yourself with is, "Does it work for me?"

 

Oh, and one thing I just wanted to touch on that Caleb said early on about his addiction to food... where he didn't blame the food...

I get that... but food is too general and isn't an accurate comparison.

Porn is not it's own thing, existing in a bubble. It is a specific form of entertainment (or whatever broader category you prefer) and it has a very specific legal definition.

They aren't saying entertainment as a whole increases the chance of addiction, social disorders, etc. Their focus is specifically about porn.

Let's put it back into the context of your food addiction.. What if you felt that it was largely influenced by hyper-palatable foods? Like pornography, these foods have a measurable impact on brains and their pleasure-centers...

See where I am going with this...?

It is still ultimately you that was addicted to the food. But would you have gotten addicted even without the hyper-palatable foods? Who knows... but you would likely cut out those specific ingredients and see how you felt...

If that happened, how would you feel if someone joined your NoFat forum and approached things as you have? Maybe an article about the website's creator came oit, where he explained his battle with food addiction and how a growing number of people have started counting calories, abstaining from carbs, and providing a support group for others...

Just imagine that.

Now imagine someone came on and said, "I am a 65-year-old that has eaten cupcakes all my life, but I am not a food addict. I am worried a former president is going to pass a law making desert illegal. Jist because you eat too much doesn't mean the rest of us can't have a sweet-tooth..."

Lol.

Just my two-cents...