Is sinning an important precursor to virtue?

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    @RecoveringLion wrote this
    There's a real quandary here. Was it important that I made such a mess of the start of my relationship with my wife? If I could go back, knowing what I know now about myself, I would do things very differently. But surely I know what I know now because of all the immature mistakes I made then.

    One of the important things that first attracted me to my wife back in 1983 was her clear sense of self-knowledge. That was something I lacked and longed for (although I would not have put it that way then). Suppose I had the confident self-awareness that I have now when I was seventeen: would I have fallen for her, would she have fallen for me?

    At our last choir concert we sang an interesting (and beautiful) John Ireland setting of the 15th Century text "Adam lay ybounden". Here's the text:

    It's those last two verses that resonate with what I've been pondering. It suggests that although eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge led to our being banished from the Garden of Eden it was, in balance, a positive thing for humanity.

    In 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos Jordan Peterson puts it this way
    I'm not sure I'm asking a cogent question here, it's just somenting I've been thinking through recently and posting about in my journal here. I cannot find the thread now but I remember one of the wives here saying how important it was that we could, hand on heart, say that if we could go back in time then we would not start on this road of pornography and hurt. But is that true? How much of the good men we have now become (or are striving to be) is built upon the flawed men we were?
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  2. RecoveringLion

    RecoveringLion Fapstronaut

    I think the answer is Yes. Without sin, virtue is unnecessary. There would be no talk of virtue, morality, goodness, etc if there wasnt the opposite...sin. Those things would be self evident of have no need for discussion.
    kropo82 likes this.
  3. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

    I think it speaks to the graceful, merciful, and great nature of God - that he is able to use the worst of ourselves, the most brutal parts of humanity, and use them to reconcile us to him. So that even betrayal, rejection, brutality, and a prolonged, gruesome, excruciating execution is what brings about the salvation of the world.
  4. You can interpret the creation story many different ways but I think one of the things it's saying is the world would be better placed without sin. It is asking why is the world is a messed and what can we do to make it better. I think one of the answers in Genesis is it's a mess because human beings don't take responsibility for their action and in order to redeem ourselves we need to be responsible. Interestingly throughout Genesis, we see people blaming other people for their own actions. I think to say blessed be the time that apple was taken is to celebrate irresponsible behaviour.
    kropo82 likes this.

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