Is this what men think?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by freedomrun, Aug 13, 2018.

  1. No, instincts are not driving the rational mind. They influence our decisions, yes, but thats not the same as driving. If instincts were driving our rational mind we would be acting irrational. Our instincts are subordinate to our rational mind, this is how we have the ability to choose! This ability is literally why we have laws, rules, and the duty to take responsibility for our actions. It's what makes us stop "rationalizing" aka making excuses for our bad behaviors/actions.

    No one is saying it's immoral to have instincts and impulses. If they're saying aything it's that it's immoral for you to excuses yourself from controlling them when you have the ability to do so.

    I do understand that, for f-sake, I've been telling you I understand that. What I'm asking for are EXAMPLES of actions you deem as proof that someone is demonstrating you're their favorite flavor! What don't you comprehend about this request?

    You: People in a relationship have to demonstrate to each other that they're the best flavor.

    Me: How?

    You: By actions, of course! Don't you know the meaning of demonstrate?

    Me: I know the meaning. What acts demonstrate to another spouse that they're the best flavor?

    You: Words not actions, that's what.

    Me: So you don't have examples of actions?

    You: Actions!!! Actions demonstrate!!! Actions!!!

    Me: Well, I think we've reached as far as we're going to go with this. Thanks and have a great day.
  2. Jennica

    Jennica Fapstronaut

    OMG, yes! TY!
  3. Oh of course they are saying it's immoral. It's all about shaming men for being men, and getting men to adopt a more feminine-approved (and therefore "good") expression of sexuality. Men are in need of more "rational self-control" of their actions, women are not. Double-standard.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You believe in free will, I don't. That's a whole nother debate, not for this thread

    I agree, thanks, you too! :p
    hardowner likes this.
  4. That's not what's being said, but whatever, you haven't really shown you're great at listening.

    Ah. Funny you're here practicing NoFap if you have no free will since NoFap is the expression of free will where you decide to control your impulses in order to achieve an ideal. I get why you don't believe in free will, I mean having that pesky conscience is annoying so what better way to try and null it than to believe I have no free will, therefore no actual choice, therefore no responsibility for my situation, and therefore no guilt.

    You didn't agree, remember you don't have a choice, you're a bot who had no say in the matter.

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    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 and Numb like this.
  5. Oh come on, be a little more cynical! Don't take what everybody says at face-value! Learn to hear what is being said, without being said

    I have no problem using rationality to better gain control over my impulses. However, as I said, that rationality is in the service of the irrational drive (impulse) for control. Likewise, guilt and shame are also irrational. Guilt and shame about porn can be just as debilitating as the porn itself. I don't want to be controlled by my sex drive, but I also don't want to be controlled by guilt and shame. Instead, I want to let my irrational drive for control, supersede these other irrational drives. This is turning in to an interesting discussion for me, thanks!

    Oh come on, I don't have to give up everyday expressions do I? You know what I mean, but you're just being difficult. But I do believe we live in something like the Matrix. We can wake up from it or stay plugged in
    hardowner likes this.
  6. I feel like being cynical is the only way you'll listen to me, lol. It's working!

    I'm on a forum which means I can't do anything but take what people are saying at face value. To do otherwise would be to assume a motive behind their words, which is something I can't do without proof since that would be unjust.

    Translation: I have no problem living a life were I have choices while at the same time denying such choices truly exists.

    And yet you just contradicted this in the above statement.

    Guilt and shame are not in and of themselves irrational. This doesn't mean we can't take them to irrational degrees.

    I get that but you said you have no choice in the matter since your sex drive impulses are what's in control and not your rational mind. See you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. You don't want guilt or shame therefore you try to eliminate choice. Yet you can't eliminate choice and at the same time not be controlled by your sex drive.

    When someone's acting irrationally are they in control? No. The sentence "I want to let my irrational drive for control" is an oxymoron and makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    What you are saying is that you want your rational mind to be able to supersede your instincts, which congratulations, that's what I've been saying the entire time.

    You said you we have no free will, so if you're going to say there is no free will but then not accept in full the "reality" of your statement then I guess you're practicing free will while denying it, which makes you either delusional or a hypocrite.

    I'm being diffcult because you're being delusional.

    The matrix is the perfect example of delusion. You're choosing to stay plugged in instead of acknowledging you have the ability to choose. Yet you say "we can wake up from it or stay plugged in" a choice that would be entirely impossible without free will.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2018
  7. ClaritySeeker

    ClaritySeeker Fapstronaut

    Why is it garbage? I actually agree with the video. It does generalize men and women, so maybe women on this site might not agree with it (since most NoFap users are male). I'm not saying it's an excuse to cheat and he even mentions that in the video stating it should not excuse inappropriate actions. He is just stating and explaining the fact that MOST men are very visual. I'm sure there are SOME women who are visual as well (he gave the example of male strip-clubs. Also, I would guess the women on NoFap are more visual compared to the general population or you wouldn't be on here), but like he mentions for every 1 male strip club there are 10,000 female strip clubs. Again, just generalizations/probabilities, nothing he says in the video is incorrect, but I do understand how that can be upsetting to people and I'll probably get some backlash for this. I think @freedomrun was asking a question that @hardowner appropriately answered in order to help everyone understand/explain and I think it was a legitimate answer/explanation.

    In the end, this is a curse we all share on this site man or woman...becoming slaves to our visual instincts and allowing PA to take over our lives in some shape or form. It's a good thing this site exists to help us all end our addiction/dependence on P and hopefully this message gets out to more people. We're all trying to improve our lives, keep up the good fight people!
    hardowner likes this.
  8. We are arguing by different sets of rules. You believe that rationality is "pure", disembodied. That all there is to an argument is the surface-level language, the "words on the page". I am saying that there is more to it than that. Emotion is not rationality. Desires are not rationality. Consciousness is not rationality. Bodily function is not rationality. We all know what these things are, we all experience them, but putting them in to words is not the same as directly experiencing them. All of these things are connected to our rationality, and influence it. They are part of the argument, but can't be put in to words. And yet we all experience them and know they affect us. I don't mind being inconsistent, because I'm not playing by the same rules as you, and am trying to allude to these other things, which again, people know are true but can't put in to words. You can play by the rules you want to, and that's fine. How is this relevant to the thread topic at hand? Because what I'm saying is that male sexuality, in whatever way it manifests itself, is a natural fact and can't be rationalized away and therefore shouldn't be judged either. But, again, we can use rationality to control that sexual drive, if that rationality is in the service of our drive for control. As I'm having this discussion, I'm realizing I'm sounding more and more like a Freudian, which I find interesting
    Rehab101 and hardowner like this.
  9. AngelofDarkness

    AngelofDarkness Fapstronaut

    I think what might be causing confusion in this discussion of women being less visual than men is the distinction between women being visual in a romantic relationship and women being visual outside of romantic attraction. I'm sure this applies to almost anyone, male or female, falling in love with someone because of who they are also translates to being sexually attracted to their looks because they are also a unique part of that person. I'm sure there are also women who find sexual attraction in looks alone, as there are also women who watch porn and get addicted to porn, but they are in the minority (strip clubs, nude magazines etc). Also, I think there is a difference between male and female arousal, although I can't speak for every female. I think for men, physical and mental arousal are intimately related while for women they exist more as seperate things, there is more distance between how aroused they feel mentally and how aroused their genitals appear physically.

    This is why I think instinctively, men are more visual than women, but falling in love has nothing to do with instincts, so women can be just as visual as men if they are in love, which is why that distinction of natural instincts is important.
  10. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

    I can't believe there are people who believe that.
  11. SamFZ

    SamFZ Fapstronaut

    OP: Kiiiinda? I can’t say I ever wanted a pie to love me back.

    it’s more like the woman is the chef! And yeah she cooked a great pie and it’s like, man, I want more pie from this awesome chef who makes such a good pie, but there’s only so much pie she can make, she can’t keep up with my fat ass craving pies! Nobody else makes pies quite as well, you don’t want anybody else to make you one, but if she can’t keep making her amazing pie as fast as you can eat it - or maybe she’s sick of you asking for it - you might end up tempted to get somebody else to make you one even though it’d never be the same! Heh.
  12. MerseyPhoenix

    MerseyPhoenix Fapstronaut

    I don't feel it's helpful because you're reducing relationships to their sexual element only. People love other people and the number one reason my not be their ability to have sex with the other person.
    Psalm27:1my light and kropo82 like this.

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