It probably shouldn't even matter.

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by OneSadYear, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. OneSadYear

    OneSadYear Fapstronaut

    12
    9
    3
    Really, I've got it good. My husband has agreed to stop looking at porn and let me lock his phone because he loves me and doesn't want to hurt me. He's maybe a bit addicted, but not much. It's easy for him to go for months without looking now that he's trying not to look. I should be happy.
    My concern is that he still reeeeeeally likes porn. Now, I don't expect him to dislike it on the level where he'd be, "Ew, beautiful naked women are icky." But he's still disappointed that he can't have it and that it's not something we will do together. He says he just can't see how sex and love aren't seperate for me. He wonders what the big deal is and says it's just masturbation.
    I just wish he saw it as a negative thing that would ultimately hurt him and our marriage even if I were to go along with it. I want to be his one and only. I feel like he's just going to resent me for not allowing him what he wants.
     
  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    OK.
    I'm going to field the "hes maybe a little bit addicted but not much"

    There is
    NO SUCH THING AS A LITTLE BIT ADDICTED.

    you either are or your not.
    There is no middle.

    I caps that, because I want you to read it.
    I wasn't A little addicted to meth.
    (I'm clean 17 years, but I will always be a addict in recovery)
    You can't be a little addicted to gambling.
    And you can't be a a little addicted to porn.
    It's impossible.

    I'm going to leave everything else you said for someone else to field.
    I've said my piece.
     
    sparkywantsnoPMO likes this.
  3. OneSadYear

    OneSadYear Fapstronaut

    12
    9
    3
    You're right, of course. I guess I don't know if he's addicted or not. He can go for a long time without using porn.
     
    sparkywantsnoPMO likes this.
  4. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    Question, have you asked him to stop and he was unable to stop? As in he maybe stops for a week or so and goes back because he can't not go back?

    I have a thread on here with resources for partners and addicts, and there are some articles I've linked that explain the partners perspective (whether the partner is hurt by the use or considers it cheating).

    https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.p...o-both-pa-and-so-definitely-read-this.108415/

    Check it out, read some articles, and show him why it is hurtful to you.
     
    hope4healing likes this.
  5. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

    1,019
    3,210
    143

    I hate to contradict you but there is a middle... but I think it still falls under the addict category.

    In the study "Profiles of Cyberpornography Use and Sexual Well-Being in Adults" they discovered a middle category of porn user. There is the recreational user (75% of people in the study) , the classic addict (12%), and a newly discovered 'at risk' addict (13%). The 'at-risk' addict only uses porn in times of high stress or anxiety in their lives. Once the problem passes they return to 'normal'.

    Perhaps many in this category have learned to PMO as a means of self-medicating but never used it enough to form a compulsion to use it on a regular basis. Maybe they didn't have as many factors predisposing them to classic addiction. Maybe they are more resilient to day-to-day stress than traditional addicts.

    Whatever the reason, someone can be conditioned to use porn as a coping mechanism without displaying the 'classic' symptoms that many traditional addicts display. There is still learned behavior than needs to be replaced with healthy behavior.

    @OneSadYear , I don't know if your husband falls into this 'at-risk' category, or if he falls into the recreational user but likes it so much he doesn't want to stop, or if he is a classic addict who is denying there is a problem. I just wanted to point out an atypical presentation of addiction that is not commonly known.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
    OneSadYear and hope4healing like this.
  6. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    hope4healing likes this.
  7. MindfulAchilles

    MindfulAchilles Fapstronaut

    142
    240
    43
    I think he's the one that got it good: a supportive partner and loving wife.

    He needs to delve into research for himself and for understanding how this is not just a spice to sex.
     
  8. samnf1990

    samnf1990 Fapstronaut

    408
    671
    93
    I would say that in order to change someone's view on an issue, you will need to argue your case. If your partner tells you that they experience a divide between love and sex (at least in certain circumstances w/r/t porn and masturbation) then that is part of their experience and reality and will not automatically change. Try to find out what it is that he is disappointed to miss out on by abstaining from porn: is it the ability to engage in sexual stimulation and seek release without requiring an emotional investment? Is it that his libido is more active than your own and he would rather PMO than experience rejection? Is it that he is free to engage in certain fantasies that he fears you may respond to negatively, with disgust, rejection or a disappointing level of interest? I would suggest that you ask about these, or whatever other reasons he may have, as it may allow you to provide what he feels is 'missing' from your own sexual interactions, or life without porn more generally, if you are willing and able. Similarly, if it turns out that all he is really missing out on is a series of novel 'partners' with whom to engage in sexually, in the form of multiple porn actresses, then perhaps this will be the lightbulb moment that points out to him just how hurtful and damaging his use of porn could be to you. If it turns out that the many-babes explanation is the valid one, just remember that he will most likely not have intended any harm to you, and that this was likely a habit long before you got together. Finally, if he cannot explain what he feels he is missing out on, or he is unable to suggest a way of modifying your IRL sex-life together to fill that void, then perhaps he will realise that addiction has taken hold. Many addicts no longer really know what they like about their 'substance'. They may even consciously dislike it. Such a realisation should help your partner to want to stop, not just to agree to do so for your benefit.

    Porn use may have been his 'normal', but he has agreed to change his behaviour. If you explain to him why you want it to change, and he is convinced by your arguments and explanations, he is much more likely to be able to stay away from porn. I worry that part of your solution has been to lock his phone. If your partner wants to find porn, he will do, one way or another. Changing your partner's outlook with respect to porn will be much more effective than changing the settings on his phone or with your internet service provider.

    Good luck. Remember that your partner has agreed to do what you want, and clearly cares for you a great deal. PMO feels nice, but (from experience) I can tell you that it does not feel better than any aspect of a loving relationship. That is true even taking into account the unrealistically attractive bodies that feature in porn. You have more to offer than porn, and if you try to provide for your partner what he feels he gets from porn, in a manner that you feel comfortable with, he will be grateful indeed.
     
    OneSadYear and MindfulAchilles like this.
  9. Shockedbuddy

    Shockedbuddy Fapstronaut

    149
    234
    43
    I found really interesting your comment, but what if SO is seeking novelty and thinking he is missing out somehow, and to prevent cheating with the real person use P instead, getting lost in his fantasy world while finding sexual life with his SO already boring? I wonder what to do here and how to handle the situation. Do you really think that cutting off PMO could have really positive effect on the level of the satisfaction in marital life?
     
  10. samnf1990

    samnf1990 Fapstronaut

    408
    671
    93
    Cutting off P and M in order to O, yeah. Cutting off O with a spouse, no. Novelty can be achieved in many ways. In P, it may be that the user switches between many actresses, or sticks with one and switches between acts depicted, outfits etc. This novelty is easy, but shallow. With a human partner, novelty can be achieved in every way other than changing the person those interactions are with, and can be as subtle as changing how you touch or kiss one another or the time of day that you have sex.

    If someone genuinely wants, on all levels, to have sex with multiple women, as is virtually possible in P use, and this is the only reason they are drawn to P, then they should leave their relationship. I think that the true reason P users often escalate their habits, though, seeking novelty through more extreme sex acts or constantly changing to a new, novel woman, is that there is something fundamentally lacking in P: it is solitary, lonely and unemotional (ignoring, for a minute, any feelings of guilt or shame afterwards). The emotional connection with another human being that wants to bring you pleasure, and who is deriving pleasure from you, during IRL sex, is always going to be preferable to a sad, lonely P session. The hyperstimulation of porn is absent from IRL sex, simply because it is not necessary. Neither is the constant changing of sexual partner. Expecting IRL sex to be like the sex in porn is to want the wrong things.

    Surrendering yourself to someone else's agency, preferences, ability to give or deny consent, and to bring their own suggestions to the table, is a way of ensuring true novelty that can surprise you, rather than the never-quite-satisfying search for a new woman or different scenario to maintain excitement when using P and your only real partner is your hand and your solitude.
     
    TooMuchTooSoon and Shockedbuddy like this.
  11. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    2,054
    3,437
    143
    My partner agreed to stop for me because he could not O from sex and it was killing our relationship. But he did not stop. He did not stop because HE did not realize it was the issue. He looked for every reason under the sun to be the cause of his DE and could not accept that he had to give it up. So he lied. When I finally caught him he did realize how it was damaging our relationship and stopped and our sex lift changed dramatically. But he's still angry and resentful. I can tell he's still on the fence as to whether or not porn is the problem and part of him thinks I am the problem even though he's had the same problem his whole life. It does not help that several counselors have told him you can only be a porn addict if you use 8 hours a day or have uncontrollable compulsions. If you have an unhealthy relationship with a substance that's a problem no matter how often you use. We both seem to have "dry drunks" for partners. They are clean but don't want to be. They are doing it so as not to lose us. I think that this is okay if it's the initial motivation to stop so long as with time he comes to realize he's doing it for him and it's the best choice. If he never gets there he will more than likely go back. Sometimes we never reach them. We can talk until we are blue in the face and the addict side will continue to rationalize. You have to know when the point is that you are ready to give up. Give him time to see it but if not you need to leave. Even if he's clean if he's not of the belief it's for him not you this won't work.
     
  12. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

    432
    847
    93
    This is my main motivation for quitting. My wife has never demanded I stop porn - altgough she has indicated that she would prefer it if I didn't look - and I do hide it from her - but I could get away with it for the rest of my potent life.

    I don't want sex and love to be separate. I want them to be completely and totally synchronized. It may be a little late for that, for both of us, but that's no reason to not do our best.

    Some people have tried to convince me they can co-mingle meaningless sexual activity with loving sexual activity, but I don't buy it. In my experience they are inversely proportional to one other.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    i_wanna_get_better1 likes this.
  13. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    2,054
    3,437
    143
    As a woman I think sex and love can be separate but not for long. Meaning if I have a one night stand with a guy I don't have to love but if we continue to have sex I likely will fall in love or at least become emotionally attached due to the oxytocin. Men don't have the same strong bonding hormone and tend to thrive on newness of partners purely from a sexual perspective. Women usually don't enjoy one night stands as much as men because most of their sex drive is in their head. So if I don't know a man well the sex is not that good.
    My partner has the same issue as you he cannot merge the two. When I asked him if he had ever experienced intimacy what he described was chemistry and he had no idea what intimate sex was. To him sex was about getting off and mostly a solo thing. When we would have sex he would finish by using his hand over me eyes closed. I could have left the room and he would have had no clue. Now while he does not do the anymore he won't look me in the eye, does not kiss or touch me and he cannot O from sex. He has basically gone from him using his hand too me using mine. IMO God created intercourse as a mutually enjoyable act the way bond a couple . If you want the race to continue you gotta both enjoy it! When one does not then things don't work well.

    Most men who have this issue are also emotionally distant or unavailable. My partner is. So intimacy is a huge threat to them. They don't want to or can't merge themselves completely with another they always have one foot out the door ready to run. Allowing another person to pleasure you like that or to be solely responsible for your pleasure is very threatening.

    Porn definitely compounds the idea that sex Is solely for pleasure and has nothing to do with love and if a man starts porn early enough he has no idea of what actual intimate sex is. That's not shown in porn. However I also think many men fall into a porn addiction due to emotional unavailability. Romantic relationships are too painful for them or keep failing so they find porn is the best way to satisfy themselves. I think this happens most often when men get hurt. Lots of men have messy divorces turn to porn to soothe do it for years and that becomes their sex life. They could get an actual woman but are too afraid of being hurt again and so th cycle continues.

    I think that many of the men who cannot fully function in bed after a reboot have these underlying issues and that's why they never fully recover. Often counseling will help but overall the emotional side is a lot harder to fix than NoFap. My partner cannot get over this hurdle and I don't think he ever will unfortunately. As a result he will likely end up alone or in unhappy relationships. Some people carry such deep seeded hurt and anger that it has become who they are and letting go is too painful.

    One last thing you say your partner has asked you to stop the pmo but not demanded. I recommend that you stop now before she has to demand. She is giving you the chance to quit on your own. If you do that will go a long way with her. If you don't she will eventually demand and by that time the anger and resentment will be so built up it will be a lot harder for you to repair the relationship. That's exactly what happened in my case.

    Good luck to you!
     
    Kenzi and Queen_Of_Hearts_13 like this.
  14. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

    432
    847
    93
    I can't keep the 2 seperate. I had a one night stand once and was horrified by the emotional sterility of it. Porn... I always felt was wrong but was able to rationalize it's use for a few reasons. My wife and I haven't always had a functional relationship... There have been persistent issues related to her past ... and porn became an addiction. We started out with her broken and me healthy, and at some point it got reversed..

    I'm about to hit 40 days... my intention is to never look again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    GG2002 and Kenzi like this.
  15. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    My position on this is a little complex. I lost my virgnity in college but since then have not had penial-vaginal intercourse which I believe should only be done in married couples. If my partner agrees to it after six months I'm ok with manual release via the hand (shower included). I do not like to receive oral. I will give oral or use digital penetration on a partner at her discretion. I wait six months she can have stimulation anytime she wants. I have no issues with nudity, taking showers together, even sleeping in the same bed. I put her needs before mine.

    I want to make love to my wife not have sex. Love isn't just a penis inside a vagina although I think that is the most intimate sexual act but also an emotional connection. I don't need an emotional connection to have a hand stroke my penis to ejaculate although it is very pleasurable. I have found though as I have aged even that as well as masturbation has lost a lot of its appeal because it is purely physical. I need the two to connect. This reboot to me is as much about making sure after its over my goal is to find the one woman who can unite the two for the rest of my life.
     
  16. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    2,054
    3,437
    143
    Can I ask how old you are? I fully respect people wanting to wait until marriage but you seem to have a lot of rules around what can be done and when. 6 months to hand release and then it has to be on the shower? I am wondering if this is leading to your issues.
     
  17. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    Not only in the shower. I know they are complex but they work for me and honestly most women I have dated have been very understanding. Holding off on penial vaginal intercourse is not that uncommon among singles today
     
  18. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    I'm 40. One of the reasons I have for these "conditions" is it's easier to separate the women who want real commitment vs those who do not want commitment. My position has evolved over the years and through my experiences as a single man.
     
  19. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

    2,054
    3,437
    143
    If that's been your experience I am not going to question it. But I'm 39 and up until 3 years ago was unattached so I dated a lot and I have a lot of single friends. These days women want sex even more than men and if I came across someone at 40 who did not want to have penetrative sex until marriage I would find that odd. I'm sure there are women out there (mostly religious ones) who would be on the same page but I don't think they would be the norm.
     
  20. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    Oh I agree it limits my chances but I'm willing to take that chance to find the right woman. As I said I lost my virginity in college so I've had penial vaginal intercourse and I'm more than willing to give a woman sexual pleasure in any way but that one specific act. Honestly I've had more dating success this way because the women know I'm not just looking to hump them.
     

Share This Page