It's a bit sad how no one take it seriously

Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by DyingStar, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

    345
    3,222
    123
    By "no one", I mean the people outside of NoFap and by "it", I mean fetishes and sexual desires brought about by porn that distress the addict. When you start talking about how it's distressing, they often take a reductionist stance trying to trivialize the addicts feelings about their fetishes by saying, "It's not a big deal" or "You can't change what you like so just enjoy it" Often this is said even though the addict is often suffering due to the internal conflict of wanting to rid themself from said fetish. I often wonder what they'd say to people that havefetishes or fantasies that could lead to more harm such as "knife play, erotic asphyxiation, scat, necrophilia or someone that had pedophiliac fantasies.

    I'd expect that the tune would quickly change. I'm sure no parent would leave their child unsupervised with someone that fantasies about children, and rightfully so. And I doubt the majority of people that enable lesser extreme fantasies or kinks would continue to say "It's not a big deal". It would be nice if a lot of us that distress about fetishes that aren't as extreme could be met with support instead of being trivialized and enabled because they don't believe we can get rid of the fetishes.
     
  2. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Even people in recovery don't necessarily know how to help even if they want to, and I'm sorry but it -is- an IF. Because it may not be the same problem they have, or mt best guess is they may really believe it doesn't get better than perpetual relapse prevention as opposed to deeper change. Or they actually have come to view things like sponsorship as a waste of time and don't really interact much with newbies - and again even if they did how much help is it? You need to do the work but if it's all very mechanical including the advice why do you even need other human beings?

    Anyway people who are here are at different places too. How can you even get into a helpful AP relationship if it's just little texts for communication? There's all kinds of bottleneck.
     
    Candun and DyingStar like this.
  3. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

    345
    3,222
    123
    True, but there's a genuine sense of communion and understanding here, that doesn't minimize the issues the addict is facing, unlike what I've seen outside the NoFap community. A lot of them seem to see the pursuit of freedom from those thoughts as moot, but I feel like encouraging one towards a direction that will be better for them is much better than trying to change their opinion about said fetish when it is harming them.
     
    whitehawk and Candun like this.
  4. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Yeah part of it is probably brain fog I figure, but we are not using our potential to deal with this when otherwise smart people are just distracted.
     
  5. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

    367
    469
    63
    People either don't understand or don't care. Either way fuck em. Gotta do what's right for you.
     
  6. fishfoody

    fishfoody Fapstronaut

    65
    120
    33
    There's a difference between people who are armed with knowledge and those who don't.

    Those people don't get knowledge and truth about this whole pmo addiction. Society tells them that pmo and fetish is acceptable and they will justify it by saying those things.

    Only people with knowledge can live differently. We are the chosen people. Let's forget about them. Focus on ourselves
     
    DyingStar likes this.
  7. Wow, this looks like sexuality shaming to me. Why do you care what people are into? "Porn addiction" is not a disorder recognized in the leading medical literature, and even if it was, it's very hard if not impossible to conclude that certain fetishes are harmful, or that they are even caused by porn. Obviously, those of us on this site have problems with excessive PMO, but that doesn't mean we should abandon objectivity and scientific accuracy. If people want to do knife play, erotic asphyxiation, or scat, knowing the potential side effects, why should it matter to anyone but them? Furthermore, it seems that you believe that necrophilia and pedophilia are inherently harmful - correct me if I'm wrong. I would strongly contest that assertion.

    And to respond to your point about people suffering due to "internal conflict" from having fetishes that they are ashamed of:

    I have seen studies which have linked "emotional distress" to "moral disapproval" of pornography use. I can link these if you want. Basically, this means that if you have a negative attitude towards porn, you are likely to "suffer" more as a result of porn consumption. But if you believe that porn and fetishes are not inherently harmful, then there is no reason to have any kind of emotional suffering.
     
  8. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

    345
    3,222
    123
    The intention of this thread wasn't to promote shame of forms of sexuality, as this is in a porn addiction sub; I was making comparison to fetishes that are more extreme and would be considered to be degrading because more people in general would see things such as what I mentioned to be harmful and would encourage people that have such fantasies to seek help. Not tell them to indulge in such fantasies. And I do believe people SHOULD care about what others are into in order to gain knowledge and have discourse about such topics. I end up quite bemused when people ask this. I think a better question would be to ask: "Why we shouldn't talk about things that will likely become more prevalent in the future?" After all, such fetishes will likely gain more traction as certain people are exposed to it, thus a wider population will hear about it in news outlets or happen upon situations where it is brought it. People can do what they want, but I do think it would be better to dissuade people from acts or fetishes that are more likely to end up with people harming themselves.
    While I believe fetishes aren't inherently bad, not all fetishes are equal and some are harmful or lead to increased risk of harm. It's not my intention to shame others, but engaging in things like knife play, which very much includes physically harming yourself or others just for a flood of serotonin, adrenaline and dopamine shouldn't be done. Erotic asphyxiation is very dangerous and I do think there is something wrong with people who engage in suffocation despite the risks.

    The act engaging in pedophilia or necrophilia is also harmful; though I'm well aware there are people that just have these attractions and don't do so. Taking advantage of children for sexual gratification is sick and an abuse of power that often leads to a warped view sexuality for them later in life including a myriad of other reasons. And I think that people that engage in necrophilia often do so because they suffer from lack of self esteem and enjoy having power.



    There's more to it than just a negative outlook of porn for people that constantly consume it. It greatly affects their lives by aiding in the process of compromising relationships, intellectual and spiritual growth for means of sexual hedonism and objectification. The internal conflict usually comes because they realize this but are in a tug-a-war state between craving and wanting to leave it behind. You could apply the emotional distress to moral disapproval link to a lot of things though, people that don't find anything wrong with certain acts or situations won't find anything wrong with it if the net positive, in their minds, outweighs the negative, regardless of if the circumstance is potentially more dangerous or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  9. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

    345
    3,222
    123
    I do believe it's important to spread information, and I wish more would be sympathetic to someone that is struggling plight instead of telling them to just embrace the fetish.
     
    fishfoody likes this.
  10. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

    367
    469
    63
    Behavioral addictions have already been widely endorsed in the field of addiction. Just because P addiction is not yet specifically named in the ICD or DSM, doesn't mean it is somehow not real or less valid. Especially considering there have already been calls to put it there by reputable scientists. If you honestly believe that online gambling and online gaming addictions are real but people can PMO as much as they want because they can't get addicted, your in a state of suspended reality. And while people are free to do what they want within reason, yes some fetishes are harmful outside of "morality" and yes they can be P induced.
     
  11. (1) I'm aware of this.
    (2) Correct, but you need to prove that it IS valid instead of assuming so like OP. My goal is not to prove that it's not real or valid.
    (3) I can cherry-pick as well. For each scientist that approves of the designation of compulsive pornography use as an addiction, I can find one that rejects such an action.
    (4) That's your opinion. Like I said, you need to prove what the reality is, instead of attacking my mental state for being skeptical of your assumptions.
    (5) It might be the case that some fetishes are caused by porn, and that some fetishes are tangibly harmful. My point is that some fetishes are neither harmful nor necessarily caused by porn. It seems like OP even agreed with me above that necrophilia and pedophilia are not inherently harmful. And I'm sure we can agree that these preferences are not always caused by porn. So my overall question is - if someone has a fetish that is not harmful or not induced by porn, why do we care? And why do we go a step further and call them things like "hedonist"? These are dog whistles for people who are fundamentally against sexual freedom, and I cannot support that.

    Posts like this are why some people (mistakenly) think that NoFap is just a dogma-ridden cult. Many users are guilty of making the same assumptions over and over without checking themselves, and no one else wants to disagree with them. I spend a lot of time on incel websites, and I see this same thought pattern. It's not good. I'm not against NoFap and I agree with its overall goal, but I don't like bad reasoning.
     
  12. CodeTalker

    CodeTalker Fapstronaut

    437
    824
    93
    I hate the fact that because we are free to do anything we want to do, there are things that aren’t wrong.
    The « no kink shaming » piss me off so much.

    I’m into bdsm and I think it’s totally fucked up and wrong. Im ashamed of being into that and I think everyone should be. You are into foot ? That’s not normal. Into asphyxiation ? Not normal. Etc etc.
     
  13. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

    367
    469
    63
    In the context of recovery, no one needs to "Prove" their addiction is valid. If they meet the criteria for addiction, they are very likely to have one and should work to overcome it. And for a person to say that a behavior or substance can absolutley never become addictive is just wrong. I don't care who they are. The only arguement to be had is how common it is, how addictive it is, etc.

    As far as fetishes go, no one wants to make a law banning fetishes that they personally disagree with. People are free to do as they choose. But people should not try and dissuade those who have problems with their own fetishes by saying that they are "Harmless" or "Natural". If their fetish causes them inner turmoil they should abstain from it.

    And I do not understand how pedophilia and necrophilia are not harmful when their entire premise is based on lack of consent.
     
  14. (1) You need to prove that terms and definitions are accurate before employing them. In the context of recovery, if you have a problem with porn then I generally agree that you shouldn't worry about definitions above taking care of your physical and mental well-being.
    (2) I believe there is disagreement on what the criteria for behavioral addiction is. In a large amount of research, problematic porn use meets the criteria for compulsivity but not necessarily addiction.
    (3) I don't think I said that.
    (4) I completely disagree. There are tons of people that want to make certain sexual acts illegal. There are people on this very forum that want to make porn illegal.
    (5) Maybe in the US. Gay marriage was only fully legalized in 2015.
    (6) Just because something is harmless or natural on its own doesn't mean someone can't have a problem with it. I can have health issues from eating too many vegetables, but that doesn't mean vegetables are bad or harmful in their own right.
    (7) I disagree. If I have a foot fetish, for example, and I become suicidal as a result, I can either stop practicing this fetish, or change my views to be more accepting of this fetish. Both of those options would reduce my suffering. But because of your moral beliefs, you only consider the first option. Here's another example. Let's say I was born with two hands and this causes me to become distressed because I desire to only have one hand. Should I cut my hand off or should I be more accepting of the way I was born?
    (8) You are confusing desires with actions which is very dangerous to do. Are you implying that someone can't ask to be fucked after they commit suicide, and that a child cannot consent to sex with another child or even an adult? Absence of consent has no correlation to pedophilia or necrophilia.
     
  15. (1) I would ask you to elaborate how sexual preferences are morally wrong.
    (2) What is the use of making people feel ashamed of sexual preferences?
    (3) Why is it wrong to have certain sexual preferences?
    (4) Why should everyone be ashamed of it? What does that accomplish?
    (5) What is the significance of normality? Why does it matter if something is abnormal?
     
  16. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

    367
    469
    63
    We can agree to disagree and compulsion vs addiction. Honestly as long as you aren't one of those people that say you can't have a problem with P I'm ok.

    Being suicidal over a fetish and doing yourself physical harm are not what I'm talking about. If it is that extreme you need outside help. I'm talking about if you have a fetish that is not physically harmful to you but you have a moral disagreement with it and you want to stop, you should stop doing it. There is 0 harm done to you by doing so. I don't think you should try and delegitimize someone's owns moral compass and say "just accept it" If it is against their set of moral beliefs, they should be encouraged to stop.

    The desire is wrong because it cannot be acted out in a healthy way. If you seriously have those desires, seek help. And yes, children and dead people cannot consent. It is illegal for a reason.
     
  17. DyingStar

    DyingStar Fapstronaut

    345
    3,222
    123
    I couldn't of said it better. It kind of sucks that this thread was turned into something it I had no intention of it becoming. I mainly was ranting about how people don't treat addicts who gain fetishes through porn addiction seriously and encourage them to fantasies/ continue watching porn featuring it, even though the addict say it hurts them. But this whole thread feels like its snowballed into a battle of morality and semantics game that has nothing to do with what I wanted to initially discuss, at least in this thread, in the first place.


    If you're just talking about proclivities towards things, then in and of itself nothing is dangerous, not people that desire genocide, rape, torturing etc, because they haven't been manifested into reality. But, similar to what Candun said, those inclinations and ways of thought are warped because in the case they're actualized, it would bring calamity. It all starts with a seed buried under the dirt but eventually it rises from under the soil.

    Who said that people that had non-porn induced fetishes were hedonists in this thread? I was talking about porn addicts that do have porn induced fetishes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
    Deleted Account and Candun like this.
  18. calcium vw

    calcium vw New Fapstronaut

    1
    1
    3
    Agreed. One of my biggest reasons for doing NoFap is to get rid of the strange and disgusting fetishes that porn has given me, and it really pisses me off when I see people trying to say that it's okay to have these fetishes.
     
    CodeTalker likes this.
  19. RogerFM

    RogerFM Fapstronaut

    84
    132
    33
    Stoicism is all about having your own moral compass, for exactly issues like that, if you did the research, if you know as a fact that it helps, then do it, I do water fast, I know it works, there is evidence on the internet.

    Yoshinori Ohsumi even won a nobel prize for autophagy.
    Jason Fung has actual credible researches and books about it.

    People still think I am crazy, even why I say I take cold showers, they literally call me mad.

    Will you be a man or a sheep though?
     

Share This Page