Jagliana's Journal | An S.O's perspective

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by Jagliana, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    I wish you would post 1,000 more times than you do.
    Elucidated and concise writing is what helps those of us with reduced attention spans get the point. Your message was tremendously effective. My wife is a child Psychologist, and refuses to do the things you have done here, but I understand her reasons too.

    She, when our problems began, went to counseling and kept telling me to consider it. As most men, I thought counseling meant, "I don't know how to think." I knew I was wrong, I didn't think talking about it would change my mind; my mom tried to shame me into changing, that didn't work, I had already tried praying for years, promises, self-harm, etc, nothing I ever tried worked. I went to numerous counselors anyways:

    the first was a group that was for SA (I'm one), it was too kumbaya, I got the first coin and left.
    the second was a group of mostly LDS guys, in that one I felt awkward since I'm not part of that particular brand of believers, and our acting out was nothing in the same universe.
    the third group was like a guided reading group study, we had homework and talked about the role of men, etc.
    I even had a female who I went to her the most ; one if the questions she asked made my wife infuriated. The psychologist said "if there were no stigma from watching porn how would you feel about doing it? " that screwed with my thinking as I realized she was right-- my guilt and shame came from the stigma not from what it caused my family or myself.

    If you have a journal, please let me see it. Thanks for your candor on dealing with addictions in general. I find many of the SO's do not really understand the depravity addiction can create, so they have false, unrealistic expectations. There is one guy I'm the AP for, he can't (I'm being totally serious) he cannot commit to very basic grooming functions, his depression/addiction has overtaken him. These guys are empty shells worse than their wives in many cases. They don't believe help will work, or that recovery is truly possible. They have stopped hoping because they did all that by themselves long before they got caught...
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 likes this.
  2. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Yep lol NYC, sex/half-naked women sell stuff here like hot cakes and so of course since money talks, it is used to promote anything and everything, it's pathetic but unfortunately reality.

    He has actually gotten much better with ogling/slips, we've worked out our own system, where full honesty and complete awareness is the best policy for us. He is able to recognize the difference between unintentional slips, where his eyes just meet anyone's ass (because of 'force of habit', which he is working on, like even finding his eyes automatically going downward, even if a grandpa passing by) so meaning slips out of reflex, even if there is zero attraction. He is able to recognize if someone is attractive, but not go into lust anymore. He is able to distinguish the difference (finally!) between noticing someone attractive versus being attracted to someone, he can even be mindful enough to break it down. Changes are happening on his end and he is out of the fog, for sure, but for me though, due to my own issues on it, I still just find it difficult to believe, after everything I've witnessed/been through for over 12 years, that I'm the one he wants/desires - especially after triggers, when I compare myself to how those other women look (how different we are). I know that recovery rewires their brains, I know it's science blah blah, but my brain was never in a fog, it was all painful and real to me.

    Boundaries came about differently for us, I would kindly inform him what makes me uncomfortable or could possibly trigger me, then he would decide whether or not to put up his own boundaries/bottom liners (for himself). So far, it has been working well, he hasn't lied or relapsed yet. There was only one boundary I set in place from the start and the only one I care about, it was - be honest, no matter what. Thing is, I told him from the get-go, whether you work your recovery (for yourself) or not, does not matter to me because I'm going to go ahead and work on myself, either way, it is totally up to you whether you join me or lose me.

    Yeah, I'm so glad they work different shifts. Thankfully he was honest about it, he called me when he went to lunch, but for me, even though I appreciate the honesty, but all things considered that 'notice' was already too late - it should have been earlier, so I could have let him know that I wouldn't like it. This woman is married with two kids, she is friendly/flirty by nature though, with everyone. I don't blame her anyway, for any of this, it was his choice to objectify her and make me feel 'less than' when she was around, that's all on him, not her.

    I agree, fuck them all, that boys will be boys mentality is what sucks-in decent guys and changes them too, "herd mentality". Wade has been standing up to them and he says he doesn't care if they make fun of him for it, I'm proud of him for that.

    He did therapy earlier, he was in Coby's coaching group (BAE) and stopped this month because that was a huge letdown and waste of money. Coby dropped the ball a lot and I feel so bad for the guys just starting recovery that are in his group and have no one else. He doesn't check in on them, if Wade didn't do it, they would have gotten completely unnoticed or ignored, even after relapses. Wade, gathered the courage to bring it up at one of the live group's, that Coby should be mentoring and stepping in more because that's what everyone is paying for, so he began checking in once in a blue moon. So, one of the guys relapsed, Coby responded almost a full week later and goes "It's okay, just be like Taylor Swift and shake it off!"... I was like WTF, what kind of response or "mentoring" is that?!

    Oh yeah, his entire lifestyle has changed, self-care (routines) is major for him, outlooks on everything have changed, we do so much together, even stuff that used to fall squarely on me. He's genuine, put forth the effort and is remorseful/empathizes. There are days where I'm in a funk and instead of letting me wallow/be lazy, he pushes me to work on my routines - instead of taking advantage or manipulating me/the situation. On this front, there is huge progress and major changes, there are times when I talk to him about our past, I feel like I'm talking to a new man about an ex - it's weird.

    Yes and that has been one of the biggest, most notable differences between then and now. When he fucks up (mistake/setback - major or minor) he actually feels it, sits in it and even tries to empathize with my side of it, even if it is a day late. His apology is sincere and not the "sorry, here's a flower, let's move on already" kind of crap he used to do.

    We are able to sit and talk about the issue, go through it and rationalize it and come up with solutions, together.

    It is a trip, the kind of emotional roller coaster I prefer not to ride on, but here we are, ugh.

    It is hard to keep up with the kiddos, but no matter what people tell you, it does not get easier when they get older! ugh lol #sorry
  3. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Actually being his AP does not trigger me, I am able to hold his space when he is in shame and help him process and figure out where it stems from.

    My PTSD is from witnessing him ogle other women for over 12 years, so when I see a certain "type" of woman, that triggers me and my PTSD comes up (doubting if I'm enough, who he desires, comparing myself to them, etc).

    I'm not sure what you mean by relapse dates? if you mean the dates under "Recovery Setback Dates | Inconsistencies or Lies" on my posts, those aren't for relapses (PM), he has not relapsed since starting recovery (yet). Those are dates for when he was inconsistent, acted in a selfish/inconsiderate way to the point where he triggered me, we had discord, or did not tell me about something (whether he realized it was important enough to tell or not).

    I think because Wade has remained honest with me, no matter how painful the truth was or knowing I would not find out on my own - I think our system is working, for us.
  4. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    I have a couple, so here are the links in order of them being written (different phases of recovery)
    1. "Is there a right way for being strong? Feel like I'm doing things all wrong"
    2. "I still need something to believe in"
    3. "As long as you're here with me, I know we'll be okay"

    Holy shit. Really? My god, I was always curious about BAE... I would like to talk more about them, PM me?

    Holy fuck, no. Did he really say that? I am sorry is this guy healed or checked out still? Like if you are running a coaching group you better be there for your clients, that is just so unprofessional I am so sorry that you guys had that experience.
  5. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Let me see if i understood. Your trigger is from watching women that are your husbands pmo type?

    So, let’s pretend the type that he oodles is the kardashian—big butt kinda thing... so when you see chick with that attribute you are triggered to shut down, and disconnect?

    If so, then do you get triggered without him or with him?

    For the relapse dates—- i thought you were recording when he relapsed. Ok so it’s not a pmo relapse it’s a relational breakdown somehow, communication, trust, connection, etc. Are the dates only when he has let you down ? Do you or he record when you cause the breakdown? I guess off hand it looks one sided. Not sure if that’s what it is?

    I’m seeing the blowback of recovery , it’s something that we don’t imagine. I think the recovery fantasy is as a PA, “ I will kick this thing and everything will be ok, we can go back to hugging kissing and having real sex again!”

    But wait,—- now that you have kicked the habit, your SO has new triggers that were developed in helping you so you now need to help her .

    I never thought about that.
    Is this accurate to your experience ?
  6. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    SO's will have different answers but for me, it doesn't matter whether he is with me or not, especially when we were first in recovery. If I saw a girl with tattooes and dyed hair I would get instantly triggered and severe urges to get as far away from his as possible. These days it's less intense, but I always have the "well if he were here he would be X about her" even if he wouldn't as I know he is better but I have lots of cynical thoughts now and am always vigilant to my surroundings and what women are around but that's just me
    Butterfly1988 and need4realchg like this.
  7. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Sure, will PM you ;-)

    Yes, he really said that when Wade showed me that response - I was FLOORED. How is a SO, whose husband is in his group supposed to feel safe when the mentor you are paying, ignores the PA who has relapsed? for a whole week - giving him room to keep relapsing, offering no support, no advice or words of encouragement... relying solely on other addicts, most of whom don't have much recovery time under their belts. I've told Wade that something is definitely up with Coby, even in the most recent podcasts, his input is overplayed like he is overcompensating for something or 'covering'.
  8. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    Wow. I understand. So SO trauma can manifest independently as a new condition.

    The PA are no longer the direct cause at that point but I can assume they may feel guilty given that reality.
  9. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    I can get triggered with or without him. The trigger is more intense when he is around because I instantly begin wondering - "will he slip?" "will he ogle?" "is he looking at her and wishing that I looked like that?" etc., when I'm alone, I don't have to worry he'll also see her, so it gives me some peace of mind - but it does not stop the thoughts of "if he was here, I'd be nervous about him possibly slipping" or "I remember how he would ogle women like her, all the time, in front of me" which reminds me of what I believe to be his type etc.

    It's relational, not PM relapses. Those are dates he has let me down, the onus is on him to do the work and remain consistent in recovery. I have been doing my part for years, holding this relationship together with a thin thread for over a decade, on my own. I am also working on myself and so far, I have remained consistent and kept up my end, fighting my own instincts to bottle up and shut down, instead I have continued to be open and honest, about everything.

    There is no "kick this thing and everything will be ok", not after you have emotionally abused, cheated on your partner, broken safety and trust in the relationship. Betrayal trauma is serious and severe the longer you have endured that kind of abuse, that kind of break in intimate trust, etc. It takes a lot of work to get through it and just because the addict is "clean" the damage he has inflicted over time, does not just vanish.

    These are the natural consequences that the addict has to now bare - should they decide to keep the relationship, because of all of the years he allowed his selfish needs (the addiction) to come before anyone else and destroy both himself and his partner.
  10. need4realchg

    need4realchg Fapstronaut

    I appreciate your feedback and honesty. For me it’s really insightful. I do not wish to ruffle your ire , I sense some anger behind part of the response so just to keep me learning and not defending — I respectfully want to disengage before becoming a distraction. Thank you very much for your insight.
  11. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    No anger here, just honesty, but it's not a problem.
  12. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    309185C6-8D02-4A7C-9750-8568D2FD6168.jpeg I couldn’t recall if you’ve already posted this one before but just in case... I think it pretty well encapsulates the feelings of us SOs (current or ex-) but even more so, anyone who is capable of and chooses to offer such love and dedication but rarely receives/feels the same in return
    Susannah and hope4healing like this.
  13. hope4healing

    hope4healing Fapstronaut

    When you sign up and pay for his mentorship, is there any agreement laid out for Coby to offer support whenever there's an issue that arises? What I mean is, is he only obligated to offer support at the weekly meeting, even though it would clearly be much better for him to be more available for times of crisis? It's disturbing to me that he takes money from people who truly need someone they can count on for recovery support, and then he's either mostly unavailable, or when he is available, his 'coaching' is completely unhelpful.
  14. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    DAY 461:

    Dailies | Self-Care Completed:
    Self-care is not an indulgence. Self-care is a discipline.
    Morning routine / Verbalized my feelings /
    Journal / Daily talk with hubby / Regulated my sleep.

    3 Things I am Grateful for Today:
    1) Self-care.
    2) Recovery.
    3) Walk and Talk.


    Last night, he gave me a soothing back rub, trying to take out the kinks from the car ride that morning. Then we spent some time discussing the topics of conversation as of late in my journal - my opinions, the opinions of others and his opinions. Afterward, we watched "Daddy's Home 2" which was hilarious and refreshing to just let our minds decompress a bit and then we went to bed.

    Today on the 7 Good Minutes podcast I listened to “The Importance of Having A Positive Attitude”, in this episode, Leo from Actualized.org gives us some great insight on having a positive attitude. His three words of advice to consider are 1) The present moment is inevitable, 2) Worry is useless and 3) Cheerfulness is the best strategy. Remember, a positive attitude gives you power over your circumstances instead of your circumstances having power over you.

    This morning, we walked, talked and listened to "Relationship Theory: Supporting Your Partner and Trust" which was another great episode! they discuss how to properly support your partner through depression and dark times, coming back from infidelity, and building trust in relationships. During the Q & A about 'coming back from infidelity,' Tom and Lisa go into a whole thing about trust and being someone's #1 and I've been talking about this to Wade for months now. They brought up a lot of valid points and opened up a good conversation for Wade and me to have, timely and very relatable to our current situation. For me, just hearing him say that right now I am his priority is not enough, words must be backed up with consistent actions that show me that he is, in fact, taking me into account, when he does anything, especially something that could affect me/us.

    This evening we had a birthday party to attend for one of our little one's friends. Before we left, he told me that he was watching one of his Anime's, usually only about martial arts/fighting but one of the main characters got a girlfriend and they decided to get intimate, Wade recognized that this could become a trigger and skipped through the scene. Then he came and told me about it, which was the right thing to do. I asked him if this is typical for this show and he said no, I hope he is being honest about that, otherwise it could become a problem for him if those kinds of scenes become more frequent. Once we got to the party, there were a lot of kids and moms, I didn't have any triggers (thankfully!!) but I did notice Wade slipping (eyes on someone else's ass) quite a few times, so I'm not sure if he had any triggers/urges. Anyway, the little one had a blast with her buddies, I am happy about that.

    What I liked about myself, today:
    (I am trying to find one positive thing to "like" about myself and make a mental note of it, every day. No matter how small or insignificant)
    :emoji_two_hearts: Loved how my shirt looked and fit today.:emoji_ok_hand:

    The 3 Pillars To Cultivating Positivity

    Relationship Theory: Supporting Your Partner and Trust

    Recovery Setback Dates | Inconsistencies or Lies
    5/25/18 | 6/08/18 | 8/18/18 | 9/19/18 | 1/09/19
    1/19/19 | 1/21/19 | 1/24/19 | 1/27/19 | 2/08/19
    4/27/19 |

  15. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    He said he would be there for support and guidance, but he expects all the guys to be responsible and accountable with each other too. However, when in crisis, their mentor is MIA - even when tagged, which I find unacceptable, especially when they are paying for HIS mentoring, in paticular.
    hope4healing likes this.
  16. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    Real companies have contracts and expectations laid out where clients sign the contract and understand what the program or sessions would be and the role of the coach... so if they don't have that then they aren't opporating on a business level....
    hope4healing likes this.
  17. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    No contract, just a 'motivational' speech on text lol which stops as soon as the first payment is rendered.
  18. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

    Are they even a real business like is it an LLC or what? When you open a business you need to get it filed with state and if you run a coaching program or business you need contracts, you talk to clients on a free consultation so they understand expectations of program and if they like it and both want to work together next step is contracts and paperwork to read about expectations and such.... it's strange that they arent professional in that regard and honestly leaves them liable to being sued and stuff...
    hope4healing likes this.
  19. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Hmmm taking money with no contract is .. Honestly.. Kind of scammy. (the llc is irrelevant--it doesn't need tm)
    Whats worse is it looks bad from the betrayal trauma perspective.
    Like, no terms and conditions? Legally this is fishy
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 likes this.
  20. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Technically they never claimed to be a business, he doesn't even call himself a "coach" - he calls himself a mentor. He could easily just put himself down as a sole proprietor and file 1099-MISC as a freelancer. I never questioned it, just figured since he is so far along and apart of BAE, who seem to know so much about this stuff.

    This was the description on their site back when we signed up for it:
    Mens Group Online Mentoring & Accountability Group with Coby Mitchell
    $175.00 per month
    • Weekly 90 minute video zoom call with group
    • 6 guys per group
    • Focus on developing recovery skillset and vulnerability in a group setting
    • Group feedback and insights welcome…yup that means cross talk
    • Different time options
    • Group text thread to check in each night and reach out when needed

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