Jordan Peterson

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by RobinCoenBrosFan, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. RobinCoenBrosFan

    RobinCoenBrosFan Fapstronaut

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    anybody here who would give that guy a hearty reading recommendation? I haven’t ever really read anything by him, but it seems like nearly everyone I’ve come across who wants to initiate a deep-thinking journey for themselves likes his writings. Do you find his philosophy/views helpful? At least better than Ayn Rand?

    Thanks
     
  2. His views are refreshing, yes. I haven't read his writings (at least, not yet), but his interviews are a beacon of sanity.
     
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  3. eyeofprovidence

    eyeofprovidence New Fapstronaut

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    I'd start with YouTube.
     
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  4. He appears to be mainly about taking responsibility for yourself with the view to becoming a stronger person. So I like him. I also like his views on psilocybin because any philosophy that endorses mind altering substances is okay in my books.
     
  5. callmesirdammit

    callmesirdammit Fapstronaut

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    I'd start with his YouTube channel - that's as good an intro as you'll need. If you do want to read any of his work, I'd recommend 12 Rules for Life, as Maps of Meaning has more of an academic bent, and is very tough to get into (by Jordan's own admission, I should add).
     
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  6. Some of what he says is helpful and some of it is harmful.
    Sometimes he's vague and inconsistent. Sometimes he talks about a problem but doesn't give a solution to the problem.

    Here are David Pakman thoughts on Peterson. Die-hard Jordan Peterson fans will hate it but I think he explains what Peterson is saying and why he's so popular.

     
  7. NightReaper775

    NightReaper775 Fapstronaut

    He's dangerous. He talks a lot about philosophy, "cultural Marxism", feminist movements, etc. in a way that not only doesn't say anything, but he misleads people all the time into believing that they're what they're not.

    He is the embodiment of capitalist ideology, the recurrent topic of "every one of us can make it to the top and thus, the system is fair and it rewards hard work". Well, the reality is that it does not, but apart from that, he doesn't think in terms of structures at all, it's pure neoliberalism in particular. People are born a certain way (that is what he constantly implies by "refuting" nurture arguments) and they create all of the conditions of their success or suffering, he negates a priori the idea of an unfair world in favor of idealism.

    On the topic of postmodernism and "cultural Marxism", he is so wrong. Firstly, Marxism is a Modernist philosophy, that tends to think in terms of economic class and relations of production, and encompasses many disciplines. Marxism creates narratives like "all History is the history of class struggle" or Historical Materialism. Postmodernists are the first to dismiss these "meta-narratives" and then Marxism because it is limited and can't think about gender, ethnic differences, etc. Postmodernity is also suspicious of the idea of revolution or mass movements, usually preferring individualistic action (like in Butler's work) or pushing democratic agendas like those of social-democrat parties (like in Laclau's work).

    What happens today in "the West" (I think it's no longer relevant to talk about the West vs. the East because capitalism took over the whole world) is not Marxism. Far from it. "Cultural Marxism" is a ridiculous idea, not only there is no conspiracy, but universities, the mass media, and the whole politic scenario show that it is not Marxists who are in charge of things. The USA, to give an example, has just attacked Syria, an imperialist policy; not only that but seeing how the whole prison system is geared towards profit (2 million inmates, or 2 million cheap laborers), it amazes me how anyone could think Marxism has any power there. A whole system of exploitation of labor, stagnant wages, extreme ethnic differences, racism, imperialism and increasing inequality... how in the world could be "cultural Marxism" winning? What does "cultural Marxism" even mean? Peterson clearly does not know, and he tends to pair it with postmodernism, it's so simplistic and wrong that it is the perfect ideological weapon.

    You know why neoliberalism and clowns like Peterson, Stefan Molyneux or Sargon of Akkad are so popular? Because they function as critics, but they criticize their own ideas of society, not society itself. They criticize the State, while they can't recognize that without the State capitalism would not last even a year; they criticize postmodernism, the new ideas of family, but at the same time they do not understand all the problems, inequalities, that the old family structure and division of labor brung to the world. They can't get away from the idea of a "provider", or "natural maternity" and such, without realizing that humans do not have instincts. It's like "The Red Pill" and the "seduction" community, they stick with a social ideal of men that they think it's immutable and biological, and then they increase hatred towards women (like the ridiculous MGTOW movement) because they are not willing to "put up". Pure resentment, hatred, egoism masked as science, logic, "realism". The perfect weapon for a sick society. Sick of capitalism, increasing problems, new narratives of exploitation and oppression that some people don't want to accept; the dismissal of biology in favor of the society in morality, ethics and life goals, thus making it impossible for them to enact an idea of "truth". That's why they fear postmodernism, Marxism, and every conflict theory or new theory.

    Well, it's maybe that they're also in for the money, they created their own fanbase and are cashing out big time. Never forget that we are in capitalism and the profit-motive is king.

    I tend to think of Marx's work as two different ones. The first one is that of meta-narratives and class struggle in the center. The second one, which I find most interesting, is the one centered around central categories of capitalism like the commodity (and its fetichism), exchange-value, money, and capital. Robert Kurz has a good analysis of the "Two Marxes".

    As everyone is posting videos, I'm posting some critiques of him.





    Take care and seek your own understanding of the world. Modern "Gurus" are no more intelligent than you or me.
     
  8. TheQuazz

    TheQuazz New Fapstronaut

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    thank you for your post NightReaper. really helped throw some light on the whole Peterson mess to me. I still think some of what he says has merit, but I will be more wary of blindly buying into his narrative in the future
     
  9. I've found a lot of value in what we talks about, and has given me a lot of helpful information for my own personal development. If you put aside the social controversies he's been in recently, his psychology is very interesting and his phrasing is incredibly 'real'. He certainly doesn't put things gently, but maybe sometimes that's what we need. I'm reading through his new book, '12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos'. I recommend checking it out.
     
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  10. I skipped forward to get past the long intro and heard him claim that Peterson says "women have to stop working at thirty but men don't". Nope.

    Your post is mainly second hand strawman regurgitation of strawman YouTube videos criticising cherry picked mash-ups of Jordan Peterson.
     
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  11. Toomuchh

    Toomuchh Fapstronaut

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    I got tired of seeing him on my youtube feed. It was interesting at first but too much politics.

    His advice is as good as the advice you can get from friends and family.
     
  12. Devil's Details

    Devil's Details Fapstronaut

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    Your entire post is you doing what you accused him of doing.


    Closer to the direct opposite. I'm guessing you're basically only watching rebuttal vids.


    Yeah, that's pretty much his interpretation, too. Postmodernism is obsessed with sex, race, and oppression, to the point of pathology. So what part of your shared interpretation is wrong?


    Ah, I see. I apologize, I didn't realize you were trolling. At least I hope you were trolling. Either way, not much point in continuing this.
     
  13. NightReaper775

    NightReaper775 Fapstronaut

    Here's another critique of Jordan Peterson, by Slavoj Žižek.

     
  14. Devil's Details

    Devil's Details Fapstronaut

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    That article said almost nothing about Peterson, and the few statements he did make about his position were directly refuted in the video above. I believe he shouts "of course you're oppressed" within the first few seconds.

    Zizek's sauce is very, very weak.
     
  15. I enjoy listening to him, but I don't agree with him. He does consider himself a liberal, as I do, though. However, I think really he is riding the wave of being controversial to sale books. He is a good debater though...you can tell he loves a good argument and knows how to keep his cool. I do not think he has a lot more to say than many others really.
     
  16. I have been reading, "12 rules to life: An antidote to chaos."

    Highly, highly recommend for life general and nofap journey. Brilliant man, great read
     
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  17. callmesirdammit

    callmesirdammit Fapstronaut

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    I always suggest that people investigate for themselves, and make their own minds up, based on what they feel comfortable and congruent with.
    Some of what Jordan says I don't agree with, and I'm sure that there's plenty out there who will have nothing but hatred for the man; however, I can relate to a lot of what he espouses and I take from that what I need.

    If I take but one thing from his writings and videos it is the importance of accountability and the freedom that responsibility brings with it.
     
  18. Wellbeing

    Wellbeing Fapstronaut

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    Of course he knows that capitalism is a creation of the state. Everyone even slightly educated does.

    "without realizing that humans do not have instincts."

    This is completely ridiculous. Your view on humans is detached from reality. This very site is founded on the sex instinct, and pretty much everything people do are instinctive. Only the small minority of actions, which use instinctual behaviour as basis, go beyond instincts.

    "they criticize postmodernism, the new ideas of family, but at the same time they do not understand all the problems, inequalities, that the old family structure and division of labor brung to the world."

    Except that those things were not pure negative as you seem to imply. There are costs to all arrangements, and those arrangements existed to allow for survival in a tough situation. Taxes are also a burden on me, but I still prefer that burden to chaos. Peterson does not deny the problems involved, but there are also problems with the current system. You might look the increasing psychological issues kids have for example.
     

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