Journal of My Story..... Thoughts | Feelings | Healing | Partners Recovery

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by HonestyMatters, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Yes, this is how I feel about it too.

    I don't think he's being OBJECTIVE at all. As it says below being objective is removing your feelings from the situation and dealing with the facts.

    objective
    /əbˈdʒɛktɪv/

    adjective
    1. (of a person or their judgement) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
      "historians try to be objective and impartial"

    All he says is he can't remember things clearly enough so he has to trust his feelings. If he was addicted back then, those feelings are most likely distorted due to addicted self-deceptive thinking. He started looking at porn (mags) at age 12-13 and videos (when they got a VHS player) a year or 2 later. Left home around 18 was in 2 long-term relationships between 18 - 28 both of which were about 3 years in duration but CAN'T OBJECTIVELY say whether he was addicted to porn or not back then or whether he was hiding it from them or not.

    We talked more about it all this morning. Mainly about the last girlfriend before I met him. There was about a 1 year gap. He's now saying if he tries to look at it objectively, at the facts he can remember, then it's POSSIBLE that he was ADDICTED back then and it's POSSIBLE he was hiding it from her. But he won't for a second commit to that. Because if he TRUSTS his OBJECTIVE VIEW on it now of how it was back then, he feels like he's LYING to himself.

    His feelings on it are he wasn't hiding it, even though the facts say he probably was. And that he was just a private person and other male friends were all looking at stuff and had magazines hanging around in the open etc and so it wasn't a big deal. Also, he ASSUMES his girlfriend wouldn't have had an issue with it because for instance, her and her sister once sent him to a strip club to keep an eye on the sister's boyfriend because the sister didn't trust him and didn't want him to go. Also this ex was never bothered for instance, if they went to the beach and there was someone topless down there. I said could this be that she just trusted you that you wouldn't be getting aroused and getting off on other women behind her back. Answer - Possibly.

    My concern is how can he WORK his recovery and make REAL progress if he can't or refuses to look at anything porn related from an OBJECTIVE point of view. He says he can but always has to trust his feelings over objectiveness where he can't remember. And I can tell you from experience everything is a constant "I don't know" or "I can't remember". It always has been.

    It's like he's stuck in constant LOOP of "Can't remember" or "Don't know"
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
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  2. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I said to him a moment ago.

    Honestly, do you think it's normal to have to deal with someone who can never look at anything objectively because they can't remember 1 hour ago, 1 day ago, 1 week ago, 1 month ago....never-lone 20 years ago?

    Response "I don't know"

    WOW!!!

    There it is again, constant Loop.....
     
  3. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    No, not as yet. The plan was for him to go through his NFA course work responses that he's had to complete over the past 90 days. So far it's a disaster because I'm supposed to be able to ask questions but his responses as per usual just leave me in the dark. It's as clear as mud. He is totally pissed off that I've told him his answers to my questions lack objectivity. So he's just lashing out now trying to be hurtful in whatever way he can. He's blurting shit out purely just to piss me off and openly admits it. He hasn't traumatised his wife enough yet apparently.

    Anyway, so I didn't want to start a new project until this one is complete. He still hasn't completed the last module either. I was going to help him after we went through the other because he doesn't know how to respond but yeah we're not there yet.

    He hasn't finished watching Doug Weiss's BT videos with me yet either. So I said I wanted him to do that first as well.
     
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  4. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    So sorry he's resorted to grasping and deflecting. I can feel the frustration in your writing. In fact, I felt my blood pressure rising on your behalf while I was reading! Your writing about this past incident here in order to defuse it is a courageous move and demonstrates your commitment to openness, full disclosure and honesty. Well done. And don't let him convince you to waste even one more minute thinking about or apologizing for this thing you have done more than adequate penance for over the years.
     
  5. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    Oh, Sweetie....you don't need to keep explaining anything about this ancient history or apologizing for it. I can't imagine anyone on this board or any reasonable person would judge you or think terribly of you. You, like all other humans, have done a thing you regret. You have apologized to everyone involved. That's it. There is nothing more to say.
     
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  6. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Thank you @Susannah , I am overwhelmed at how understanding you are being. It truly amazes me. Thank you for your kind words , it means more than you can imagine xx
     
  7. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    This....




    Pearl Jam - Pendulum

    Can't know what's high
    'Til you've been down so low
    The future's bright,
    Lit up with nowhere to go,
    To and fro the pendulum throws

    We are here and then we go
    My shadow left me long ago

    Understand what we don't know
    This might pass
    This might last
    This may grow
    Easy come and easy go
    Easy left me a long time ago

    I'm in the fire but I'm still cold
    Nothing works works for me anymore


    Ah ah ah ah ah
    To and fro the pendulum throws
    To and fro the pendulum throws

    To and fro
    To and fro
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  8. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I'm not the kind of person that can just put something behind me without understanding it first.

    We've talked before about the "idea" of closing the book on this relationship and everything bad that was in it, his addiction, the lies, the secrets, the fights, the things said and done, all of it and start afresh.

    But I can't see how I can make peace with something I don't understand. I can't understand it because he tells me he can't remember it. How does one not remember their past? How does he ever get to his root causes if he can't remember it? I know he has to be able to get to his root causes of his addiction to be able to truly recover. How is this even possible if he tells me he can't remember his first 30 years in relation to porn and his addiction? How can I make a decision to start afresh if I can't see exactly what it is I am supposed to be putting behind me.

    I don't think there is anything that he could tell me in his past history (those first 30 years) that I couldn't handle or deal with. Unless it were terrible things, like rape or paedophilia or things that terrible then yes of course I would be shocked and would most likely struggle with anything like that. But he knows even from the past 7 months that I have not reacted badly when he gives me details of thoughts or urges he may of had that day even though they involve other women.

    I find it far more difficult dealing with the unknown than the known. It's the unknown I find disturbing.

    If I was to choose to walk away and start a whole new life without him in it, then it would be a different story. It wouldn't matter what I know or don't know. I would be starting fresh. It wouldn't matter to me if he understood his root causes or not because it would have no affect on my life. Of course, I'd hope he'd find that clarity but ultimately it would not effect me.

    But closing the book on everything and starting afresh with him, to me is a whole different ball game. To me there is no starting afresh if he can't self-discover and find those root causes. If he can't get clarity, if he can't remember, if he can't be forthright with me about those first 30 years of his life, and obviously the 20 years after that with me as well (but I feel he's somewhat made more progress there) then I don't feel safe or secure about putting behind me something I don't know or can't understand because I'm in the dark.

    I don't know if this makes sense to anyone ???

    And what really makes me feel unsafe is all the guardedness and defensiveness around it. And how he says that he has to be on guard and defensive because he feels under attack.

    But it's what "being under attack" looks like to him that is an even bigger problem here. Just trying to have a normal conversation, no judgements, no criticisms, no nothing, him just being open and honest with me, me being able to ask questions, is to him "still being under attack" . Basically, it seems if we're not totally ignoring his first 30 years and pretending it doesn't exist, then he is "under attack". That's what it feels like to me. Before we even have the conversation, he has already got it all worked out and predetermined in his head how it's going to go so therefore he is already on the defensive and guarded. I said this, this morning, and he agreed that it is like that, but he doesn't seem to see any problem with it either.

    When he's being guarded and defensive it feels like he's in denial. If he's in denial then he can't be in recovery right?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  9. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    Soooo frustrating. This was the way it was with my husband, too. I would tip-toe around with gentle questions that were so vague that they almost didn't ask a question at all. Things like, "That's interesting and I want to understand. Could you tell me more about that?" or "What would you like me to know about that?" and he would just shut down and say that I was "interrogating" him or that he didn't want to be "analyzed". I would work for literally weeks sometimes just to find out one tiny bit of information. I think addicts live in terror of being found out and judged, so they want to control all the information. That, and the fact that they are often living in complete denial and/or things are too painful for them to look at. I am happy to say that my husband has moved past this stage. Lately, if he feels defensive about my questions or observations, he has been able to stop and notice it and realize it is not because I am attacking him, but because I have touched on something sensitive. He then stops and looks at it to see what it is. In other words, he realizes that it is nothing from me, but something from inside of him. I have no idea how he got to the point where he could do this. It was as if a switch flipped one day. I have genuine sympathy for your situation and hope yours can get there someday soon.
    On the other hand, be careful what you wish for....Since my husband has been opening up, I have been through a constant onslaught of disclosures and recovered memories that have, at times, been very difficult to stomach. I have found out so many terrible things. For instance, he recently revealed that he had been formally reprimanded at one previous job and actually dismissed from a second for on-the-job porn use. His previous story had been that a contract ended and "personality conflicts". I was floored. And this was one of the least awful things. Of course, I need to know these things, for the reasons you stated about starting "fresh", but still.....I had NO IDEA how severe things were and I advise you to try to prepare yourself for the worst, while hoping you don't get it. Hugs
     
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  10. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    It's great that your husband has progressed to this stage. I feel my husband should be much much further along and doing the same. After all, the last D Day was back in July 2018 and he has supposedly been in recovery since then and also porn and masturbation free this entire time. So that's 7 months (although he did slip once with masturbation on 25/9 but no porn) so really 5 months clean. On top of that, he's recently completed the NoFap Academy Reboot - so No PMO for 90 days meaning no porn, no masturbation and no sex either and during this period completing the course that goes with it for the past 3 months. The 90 day reboot finished 7 days ago. We still haven't had sex and he's at 97 days now and we've been doing an in-house separation since Saturday because of the inability to be able to discuss his course work as per our agreement without ending up in an argument about it.

    Edit: the fact that he's not doing what you are saying, that is, he's not seeing that his defensiveness speaks volumes more about him than it does about me, is alarming!!! Because I know this is what real recovery should like but he's not there yet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
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  11. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I was just reading all our messages again and on thinking further about what you said here, I hope I do get it. I've already discovered on my own some pretty bad stuff, like all the porn use at work, the unbeknown photos taken of me, signing up to "free local sex sites". If there is worse to come, then I hope it happens soon because at least something will feel REAL. Least I'll know he's being REAL.

    The feelings I have now, are oh so familiar, I've felt this way so many times before over the past 8 years. Call it gut instinct, woman's intuition or six sense but I just know something is not right, something is very off. Unfortunately, every other time I have been right.

    I can't keep doing this. I would rather separate than being doing this all over again.
     
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  12. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    Hugs to you.
     
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  13. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So I have this new support group which is a first for me and I'm feeling good, hopeful and positive about that. I think I really need something like this.

    So in regards to my last post, I told my husband last night that I really feel that something is off.

    Like off for quite sometime now, and I know this feeling, i'm not new at this dealing with his addiction thing. It's felt off for the past couple of months to be honest and i've written about it before unsure whether it's really just to do with him feeling down, depressed, no energy, unmotivated etc or whether it's something more than this.

    So upon asking him, is there something you are not telling me, are you really PMO free. Have you relapsed at some point or are you being dishonest about something?

    So he has responded that he is PMO free has not relapsed but possibly he hasn't been completely honest with me about his feelings and emotions. That at times he is feeling like wanting to just leave, to escape. To get his life back because it's too hard, he doesn't want all the restrictions and all the work.

    Unfortunately, a conversation about this didn't get very far at all, because I said "Well, this sounds familiar, we have been here before many times. Prior to him agreeing to do this recovery work this is exactly why he wouldn't go into recovery, because he didn't want the restrictions and he didn't want to put the time or effort in and I said and that didn't work did it? You were still highly stuck in your addiction" Anyway, because I said this, so basically comparing it to previous behaviour he said "Now your just putting words in my mouth, I didn't say that's what I want to do, it's just how I feel sometimes" I do get this but I was just saying "we have also been here before" but apparently I should not have said that.

    So yeah, it didn't go anywhere, because then I got "this is why i can't be honest with you, this is what you always do, I am impossible to talk to etc"

    I don't know what was so bad in what I was saying. I mean it's true, this is how he has felt for years and the exact reason why he didn't want to go into recovery work then, the restrictions, the work and effort involved etc... I get that he's saying that it's just a feeling and doesn't mean that that is exactly what he plans to do or even wants to....but why is what I said so wrong, why is that a good reason for him not to be honest with me and not tell me anything....I just don't get it.

    Can someone please tell me what I'm missing here?
     
  14. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    So he's been out all morning...only just returned
    So I tried to continue our conversation
    I said "So if this is how you've been feeling all along (at times) why haven't you been honest with me?"
    He says "I have" I said "No, you've just told me your down, depressed, no energy, unmotivated but never why? You've always said you don't know why"
    I said "You've never told me, that sometimes you just feel like leaving, that it's too hard, too restrictive"
    I said, "So in all this time, the last 7 months, you've just been wasting my time then and not even told me how you really are feeling sometimes?"
    Then he walked off to another room, started talking to our daughter "then said he's going out to do some shopping" and basically just cut me off.....nothing more to say and left.
    I just can't believe him. I seriously just.....can't.

    What the fuck has all this been for???

    I know he wants to do recovery for him and I agree that he needs to do that first and foremost, he can't just do it for me, that will never work. But now I feel like doing recovery for me or us is also too much effort, too much work. I mean if he wants this relationship to work a part of his recovery has to be he wants it for me and for us too. So I'm just feeling that I'm/we are not worth it, I am not worth the effort or work.

    I'm just.....FLOORED!!!

    What have I been doing all this again for then????

    He has told me so many times that he does REALLY LOVE ME.....but if I'm not worth the time or the effort then how can he truly love me????

    I just feel like I'm being strung along now, soooo fucking worn-out!!!
     
  15. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    We have finally had a more in-depth decent conversation about everything. There was kinda no conclusion to any of it though as our youngest came in and interrupted and now we need to pick up the eldest child.

    But all in all I feel better that we've talked some. Still not sure how it all progresses from here though....

    So he admits that yes he's hasn't been completely honest with me because he has been withholding his negative thoughts or feelings from me about just wanting to escape / leave in general. So it seems to be 1) they come and go but sounds as frequently as daily and sometimes maybe short in duration or could be hours 2) it's not a representation of what he really wants 3) he doesn't want to sound like he's complaining / being negative 4) he knows i will want to dig deeper into it - analyse it, process it, get to the bottom of it - this is a big one to me because he says he knows this and doesn't want to have to. He doesn't want the added pressure or stress of it all 5) he says he doesn't understand it himself and doesn't know if it's been because of the NO PMO - hardmode or just no P or M in general.

    We talked about a lot of things. I said this is most likely then why I have been feeling something is off since mid December. I felt like he was being real with me and honest etc for about a month...but then something just changed, there was a switch. And since then I felt this growing distance, like I am being kept in the dark. This makes more sense to me now.

    I've told him this is why I've been feeling like separation is starting to look like more and more the only option because I've been increasingly feeling like something is off , that we have entered into possible FAKE recovery mode.

    He says he is feeling trapped, that his life is basically work (at job), then some chores at home and then recovery work. I said, well I guess it is kinda like that because this is the life of rehabilitation. It's like a drug addict, they were on a high for so long, having a great time doing drugs whenever they like to feel good, they dug themselves a huge hole and now they have to get themselves out of it. Now there in rehab and this is no fun anymore, it's a lot of fucking work. He says, that's right, I did the crime now I have to do the time, he says like if he was in prison he would hate it and feel like escaping but at the same time realise that he has to do the time.

    We talked about the restrictions and how he feels so trapped and limited by that and I tried to explain to him I don't like it either it. I don't get anything that great out of it either. Being with him and dealing with his addiction, it is the only way I can feel safer, more secure, but all in all it's a fucked way to live but I don't feel I have any other options right now, the ways things are / have been. This is not something that I would just choose for myself as a way to live, to be in a relationship. Nobody wants to feel that they have to monitor or be hyper-vigilant in their relationship. Of course, if I could choose to be in a normal relationship where I felt safe and secure without all these restrictions of course I would. I would give anything to be able to trust my partner, to not have to look over my shoulder, wonder if he's doing the right thing by me. Anyone, would choose that. No one would choose this. I feel just as trapped by all of this as he does.

    I told him how it all makes me feel, him feeling like wanting to escape / leave. It makes me feel that I'm not worth his time or effort, that our relationship is not worth it. He says it's not me, it's just the whole situation, and everything he has to do. He says, it's not because he wants to go back to porn or because he feels that was a better life. It's just all of this is so much a harder life.

    I said from an outsider looking in, I think it's like your in rehab and you're just fighting the process, your rebelling. You don't want to go inside and work out your problems and deal with all the negative, it's too hard, too painful, too draining, too time consuming, too much effort. Your withholding these feelings from me too, because you know I'm the kind of person who wants to deal with things head on, that I will push for the analysing, the processing, the digging deeper and so your withholding so you can avoid that from me too. But all in all, all you are doing is dragging out the process, dragging out the rehabilitation. Your making what you don't want to do just take longer. You're actually making it harder. But not only that, your dragging it all out for me too.

    If you're stuck, then I'm stuck, because the relationship is stuck. We can't progress. We are just hanging in limbo.

    He says he understands this.

    So where to from here. I don't know. As I said our youngest interrupted and that was that.
     
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  16. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Current thoughts playing in my head....

    I know I have to accept where everything is right now but I find it so difficult.
    Living this life of uncertainty....
    I mean we all have uncertainty in our lives, we know we will die at some point but we don't know when or how
    We know that life can throw us a curveball at anytime and we will have to deal with whatever that maybe at the time....
    But this not knowing where my marriage, my relationship is going is sooo hard.
    I don't know how to progress and get my shit together in this environment....
    I know I have to work on myself and there is so much I need to work on
    But I just don't know how to do it without being affected by what is going on with him
    and what is going on in our relationship
    I just can't seem to do it.
    This trying to thrive and grow and work on being the best version of myself
    whilst not knowing if he is going to truly commit and embrace all that he needs to do, to recover to become sober
    or whether he's just going to leave because it's all too hard, he can't deal with the work or the restrictions
    I don't know how not to be affected by that.
    Especially when we are trying to make things work, trying to work on our relationship.
    Like if we are doing well, and we are getting along and being affectionate, working on our connection, having intimate sex etc...
    I feel vulnerable....I feel like there is hope, I start falling for him and for us.
    I feel like I leave myself wide open.....
    Then when the shit hits the fan, things go sideways for whatever reason
    I then feel hurt, confused, lost, down, empty
    It's not an environment I can thrive in and be my best in

    Because I don't know what's going to happen from one day to the next
    from one week to the next.
    I don't know how to put 100% into us and working on our relationship, being there for each other in totality, having intimacy and sex and everything and not leave myself vulnerable and wide open for disappointment
    I don't know how to do both - work on me, work on our relationship and connection
    without ending up hurt.
    I don't know if this makes sense.
    If I totally just focus on me and not the relationship, in order to do that I need to pull back
    and distance myself from the relationship, not truly connect, but that feels like I'm also
    driving a wedge between us in order to protect myself....

    How do other SO's do both without leaving themselves open for hurt, pain or failure....
     
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  17. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Today's been a good day
    It felt very productive, I got a lot done that I wanted to do and so felt a bit accomplished which was nice.

    Last night, we watched the 2nd part of the "Helping her Heal" series. It is so good. Doug Weiss just explains everything so well. I was amazed.
    The way he explained understanding your wife and her pain, and her trauma was so well done. My husband has always said he understands, and last night he realised that he has never done the things that Doug talks about and how he now realises he hasn't really understood at all.
    There was a whole section on lying and how for most women it makes everything 100x times worse than if it was just the act of looking at porn itself. Again he went into so much detail and explained it all so well. There was a heap of topics covered and a lot of tips and suggestions given. My husband said he wants to watch it again and take down some notes, in fact he'd like to watch it a few times over just to really get it in his head so that was a positive.

    This afternoon as planned we spent about an hour and a half working through his course material. We actually managed to get through it without any upsets or arguments so that was great! We plan on doing this every afternoon after work until we are through the whole lot.

    My husband has set a date for us to start the "Intimacy Anorexia" and the "Married and Alone" workbooks. We will be starting these together on the Monday 4th March. Everything else should be wrapped up and finalised by then.

    So today was my husbands "100th Day of NO PMO - Hardmode"
    Because things ended up bad between us when he was supposed to be finishing his 90 days and we consequently ended up with separate sleeping arrangements etc , we obviously did not have sex or anything at that time.

    So after his coursework this afternoon, we cuddled and actually had some intimate time for the first time in about a week and a half and we decided to take the leap and have sex for the first time in "100 days".

    Well it felt so good to be in each others arms and to be able to be close, connected and to not have to hold back, to be able to make love again. It felt amazing for both of us and I realised just how much I missed being with him in this way.

    At the beginning of the 90 days we both wondered how on earth we were going to get through it and back in November when he started, February seemed a million miles away. Surprisingly, it wasn't as bad or as hard as we thought it would be. Admittedly, he did take care of my needs a few times during that time so that certainly made it more bearable for me. But overall, I only had a couple of times when I was seriously over it.

    I am so very proud of him to make it through his "90 Days of Hardmode" in fact he did so well and actually did "100 days" so he should be very proud of himself. As he said, he has never EVER gone that long in his life without O. Probably the maximum ever was about 4 days. So this is a huge achievement for him. I was actually quite impressed that he lasted as long as he did too considering how long it's been. I mean it wasn't hugely long or anything but I really
    thought he'd only get to a few strokes. He has always suffered with PE so it will be interesting to see once we are back into a regular sex pattern again whether there's any improvement there. I really hope so!!!

    So we are sleeping back together tonight for the first time in a week and a half too.

    And just taking things one day at time, and we will see how it all unfolds.....

    :emoji_heartpulse:
     
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  18. Sounds awesome.
    So happy for you.
    I think this works so much better when both partners want things to improve
     
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  19. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Thanks @Thor god of thunder
    Yes, so much better for sure!
     
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  20. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Thank you so much @GhostWriter . You are an absolute incredible help to me and always have been. I (we @Br1 R1) have always valued your responses and you've truly always been the GREATEST help to me here on NoFap. For that I can't thank you enough!!! I will respond to your posts but it will probably take me a while to address it all LOL ...but I definitely will because there are things that I most certainly want to address and respond to. Thank you again and much love, kisses and hugs your way too! xx
     

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