Journal of My Story..... Thoughts | Feelings | Healing | Partners Recovery

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by HonestyMatters, Sep 7, 2018.

  1. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Ok, here goes GW .....some responses

    No, I've never wanted to go back to the way things were because although I didn't know what was going on, I always knew something was very wrong. He on the other hand has said many a time that he wishes things could go back to the way they were, but mainly because I was such a different person. Back then I was so driven and motivated, a lot more positive and productive. I do certainly miss that part but I was also terribly lonely with him and I didn't feel at all like I knew who he was. He would never talk intimately to me or let me know how he was feeling, what was going on with him or be close to me in a mental or emotional way. So No, going back is not for me. For the first time ever, especially after all the D Days I understand now why things have always been the way they were all along.

    Yes I do understand I may need to accept that I can't or may never understand but I find it so very seems to go against the core of my being in this instance. With a life partner, you seek to understand and seek to be understood.

    As for the compartmentalization this makes a lot of sense because he very much compartmentalises everything and I do understand this about him. It's because of this I find he contradicts himself a lot. It's very much like the way you described it to Sussanah in your post about the opposition between frontal cortex and the mid brain.

    Well, as I understood it, it is very necessary for him to understand his "Root Causes" in his addiction otherwise it is very difficult to truly ever overcome the addiction. From what I've read, that was my understanding, but I may be wrong....

    No, it is definitely not my need to know his root causes but it is my need that HE KNOWS his "Root Causes", if we are going to stay together. If he's ever going to be able to put this addiction behind him, he needs to delve deep inside him and address wherever this addiction stems from. I don't want him to do it for me. I want him to do it for himself. And in doing so, I know that he/we can truly put this addiction behind us and move on. I would like to think he could share this with me, it would certainly help me in believing that he has reached that place but what's more important is that he understands it himself and can work through it.

    Yes, understood. I don't expect him to remember every detail of what he ever saw or did but surely one can remember / recall the general context of the situation whether they were hiding something from their previous partners or not. Like that is such a repeated pattern over a long period of time that you'd think you wouldn't forget that or that feeling.

    You are right. I didn't know everything about him but I took a leap of faith. Generally, if that turns out to be wrong, you wouldn't just take a second leap of faith that readily would you....that's why it feels it feels sooo impossible to do that again without absolute certainty. But I know.... I would need to take a leap of faith at some point (I'd just rather it not be such a huge leap that's all)

    And yes, this...."Monitor his actions and words" and make sure they're in alignment with one another. Yes, this I can do and will continue to do. This is definitely the best indicator of all. "Actions speak louder than words" , I remember my mum saying this continuously when we were kids and nothing could be truer!!

    So, what I was saying here is I don't think there is anything "that I couldn't handle or deal with. Unless it were terrible things, like rape or paedophilia or things that terrible then yes of course I would be shocked and would most likely struggle with anything like that"

    I didn't mean if those things were done to him, that I could understand easily, having been through those kind of things myself but if he was the perpetrator of such things, then that would be different, Yes I would be shocked and I would find that difficult to deal with. I probably didn't word that very well previously. I have had terrible things like that done to me, so would find it extremely difficult to forgive that of someone else, especially a life partner! That's all I meant. It's not necessarily right, but just how I know I would feel. And it's not what I think or feel he has done in any way whatsoever either, it was just an example of where I would draw the line.....

    And yes, I understand there is so much shocking stuff out there that people are viewing. I am aware that there have been times he thinks he has probably come across rape or child pornography amongst a whole array of other stuff. We have discussed this before. But it wasn't because he was going looking or searching for it but he used to watched Vimeo and the like a lot and he wouldn't know what was coming up. In many ways, that was part of the thrill / excitement, the shock factor that you'd get so many different things from mild to extreme, it would just play and he'd watch whatever was coming up. Some of it he said was disgusting and he did not like it or get off on it..... it was just the nature of how it was viewed - not knowing what was coming next.

    And I realise that too, just because you watched something doesn't mean that you'll do it. For a long time there, that was something that really disturbed me. On the first ever D Day I found him watching a movie where gorgeous looking women (models) were shooting for a nude calendar in the middle of nowhere and were also being stalked and hunted down and murdered etc. Well, at that time, that did freak me out, I didn't feel safe around him at all. Being someone who was preyed upon as a child this really did traumatise me, that was 8 years ago. I do understand more about it now and it doesn't mean that he'd act on that. All the same, I didn't like it at all and still don't. And the whole sneaking around / preying on me and taking photos.... that has been doubly traumatic to me due to my past childhood experiences. That is something I still have a problem with to this day, that I need to deal with. Every time we fight, I don't feel safe, I don't want him near me if I'm showering or dressing etc.... I start to get that horrible feeling, that he could be sneaking / preying on me .....especially because he mainly did it to me when we were fighting too....

    Just realised I missed this one.

    This is his perception. He has told me this. He has said that he should have no reason to lie to me because he knows how well I've handled/taken everything he tells me in our daily check-ins - when he talks about his thoughts or urges for the day.

    Again, it's not wanting to know every intimate detail, it's the wanting to know the general context of a situation, and at the time for us, it was about whether he was or wasn't hiding pornography from previous partners. It wasn't about wanting all the details, just the general context of the situation. The reason being, purely trying to establish if he was / wasn't addicted back then and whether he was sneaking around then or not. I couldn't understand him not remembering whether that was the case or not, as I mentioned earlier.

    And I agree, I can't be pissed about the unknown and then be pissed when I do know. I don't feel it's so much about that. It's more about just being able to make informed choices that's all. I think I have the right to be able to make my own informed choices.

    And yeah the whole 100 or 101, agreed, it's neither here nor there. It wouldn't be about that for me.

    Sure, I have no doubt I would still wonder but I'd be able to put it out of my mind a lot easier given he's not in my life each and every day. And definitely, there's always that possibility that I could end up in a similar situation or worse but that's not a good reason to stay in a situation either. As we discussed before, it's called taking a leap of faith, and trusting that things can be better and may work out so much better. It works both ways....

    No, the entire premise is on whether he can find and deal with his root causes, not for me but for him. And in doing so whether he can truly put this addiction behind him. I know it will take time, and maybe he might eventually remember things that will help him get there. Again, if the roles were reversed and I had an addiction, I'm sure he'd want me to work out my "root causes" , that wouldn't mean him knowing every explicit detail of my past but I'd have to get to the real causes if I was to beat it or for the addiction to not always be such a struggle to keep at bay.

    I do embrace the progress he's made and I can accept the lack of progress at times to, so long as the lack of is not outweighing the actually progress made. And yes, I do need to focus on me and my Betrayal Trauma more as well. It's a difficult balance to achieve. It's like a juggling act, this whole - his recovery, my healing and the relationship. It really is an art in itself, something that we are still trying to master - but it's really not easy at all!!!

    Yes, this....

    This is so true. The trauma of a Trickle Down Disclosure is by far worse. It's horrible. And I've told you before... That the photos taken of me were originally only a few times. Now he's told me only a couple of weeks ago, it's more like 5 or 6 times plus there was a recording too. I'd rather a full disclosure on EVERYTHING in one hit. And I mean everything over the course of the relationship. And like you say starting with the worst first. He has never given me a written formal disclosure. I have told him I would like this. We have talked and talked about everything on many occasion and he has said he has disclosed everything verbally to me. But I would like a formal written disclosure, done how they are supposed to be done. That would mean a lot to me. I feel like it would be him truly owning and acknowledging everything to me. Especially since he's so prone to forget the things he says to me. I don't want a situation where later on he denies it, years down the track etc....this has happened before on so many occasions.

    Yes, this is a good idea. I will start doing this I think.

    Ok, I think I have addressed most things here.

    Thank you again @GhostWriter , I do love all your feedback. You put a lot of time and effort in and I truly do appreciate it. And @Br1 R1, I know we made an agreement not to write on each others journals but I think it would be good if you addressed those parts relevant to you. I don't mind if you want to do it here on this occasion or otherwise you can hit reply to each section and copy and paste it across to your own journal if you like, you'll just need multiple tabs open. Either way, I think it would do you good and I'd like it too if you did respond to GW's messages.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
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  2. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

    Yes! I feel the same way. I want my husband to find out what went so very wrong and address it, even if he never tells me. I still want that relief for him.
    Exactly! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
    Yes. I feel I've never made an informed choice in my marriage, beginning with marrying him in the first place. (He has admitted that, unbeknownst to me, that he looked at porn on our wedding day.) For me, knowing that I was deprived of a choice about something that would go on to cause me such misery and devastation and that I have been married to someone who was, in many ways, a stranger, has been one of the most mind-altering experiences I've ever lived through. It has changed the way I look at and think about myself. I don't know if I can ever forgive that...
    Excellent points
    You said it, sister! When this is over, we will be qualified to do anything.
  3. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I had a pretty good day yesterday.

    I'm really trying to work harder on just focusing on me and my goals and trying to be productive.

    So yesterday, I focused on staying present and getting some jobs done around the house and organise some overdue tasks etc...

    I also finished off some work for a client of mine and pushed myself to reach out to a new client who had expressed interest in me working in their business and that went well and I'll be meeting them on Monday so fingers crossed I may have a new client there.

    Today I plan on spending the day, renewing my Advisor Certifications for the 2 main software I work with. These have to be done annually and are almost due so that's the goal for today, to get a good chunk of that done.

    I'm also going to try and do a 30 min workout. I had been doing these every second day but that kind of went out the window a few weeks ago when everything went haywire between my husband and I. So I really want to do that and perhaps even get a walk in this afternoon as well.

    I listened to some of the 7 Good Minute podcasts yesterday while cleaning the bathrooms. I've gotten into the habit of this when cleaning as it really helps alleviate the boredom. The one that really resonated with me was about keeping a positive attitude and the ways in which to do that. I loved the Thought of the Day which was "A positive attitude gives you control over your circumstances rather than your circumstances having control over you"

    Each afternoon this week, we have been going through all of his course work. This has been going well and we are now up to going through the last module. He has a couple of things to finish off this afternoon when he gets home from work and then we should be able to go over it and will be done. So I am pleased about that.

    We are still set to begin the IA & MA workbooks on Monday for the next 100 days and I'm really looking forward to getting into this. I really hope something positive comes of these and we can learn how to connect better and deal with our intimacy issues.

    Today, I also plan to do a 10 min meditation and maybe 30 mins on my anxiety course I'm working through...

    Lots to fit in so luckily it's only early here....

    I hope everyone has a great day!

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  4. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Just checking's been a few days.

    I've been going pretty well and just trying to focus on myself and not so much on his recovery. Need to keep reminding myself that that is his responsibility and I shouldn't have to push or prod him in anyway.

    So I've been focusing on meditation, getting in some exercise and dealing with my own feelings, anxiety and healing.

    I did end up getting a new client on Monday, so was very pleased with that, and that I managed to push myself and to be confident and have belief in myself. With all the trauma and ongoingness of his addiction it has really affected my self-worth and belief in myself.

    I do really want to focus more on my work and building up my business. Not just to help us more financially but to also to rebuild my independence, confidence, and self esteem so gaining a new client has certainly put me in a better state of mind there.

    I just need to stay focused and consistent on working on healing me.

    We started our Intimacy Anorexia and Married and Alone workbooks on Monday. So far it has been very slow and we haven't had to do a lot yet. Mostly just reading but we are committed to doing it daily and it's really not a lot of work - only 15 to 30 minutes a day. We both have support groups that we check-in with on a weekly basis so it's great to be able to connect with others also working through the course.

    I've also had someone reach out to me who could be going through a similar situation and so have spent the last hour and a half this morning trying to give some advice, information and links to resources etc.... I truly hope it helps.

    Today, I'm about to get into some work around the house, some work in my business and hopefully maybe fit a workout and meditation in later on too. I also have another potential client that has contacted me so will be following that up as well.

    My husband has been keeping up with his recovery work, and doing his daily check-ins with me. I know he his struggling with negative thoughts and is also having a tough time at work of late. I really feel he needs to try and make more time to focus on his hobbies and interests. He does have a list of things he wants to pursue that he completed in his course. He just needs to start trying to integrate them more in his life. One of which is to start doing more exercise which he had but then after a cold never got back into it. That was a few months ago now. I think this is really important. They talk about how exercise and having a physical outlet can really help in dealing with addiction. He knows this but just needs to get himself motivated and practise consistency. Same with any other hobbies/interests in his life. And also, self care, he has a couple of medical conditions that he also needs to pay more attention to and keep regular checkups etc. But I'm learning that he has to start doing all of this for himself. It is not my responsibility and it's up to him to do things differently.

    I was talking to him about a really good podcast I was listening to on 7 Good Minutes a while back. I can't remember the title but it was all about Motivation and how when feeling unmotivated you cant just sit around waiting for motivation to come knocking on the door as it usually just doesn't happen like that. You have to create it. You have to force yourself in the beginning and by doing that you will get the wheels turning and you will start to actually feel more motivated. You start a chain of events by acting first even when your not feeling like it. It slowly builds momentum and you start to feel more positive, more accomplished and more motivated to do whatever it is you are aiming to achieve. I know this is very much how I am like. When I'm feeling down and depressed, no energy, don't feel like doing anything. I could easily stay like that for days or weeks and eventually just feeling worse and worse and lower.

    If I can push myself to spend the day doing things I can usually snap myself out of it and start to feel a bit more accomplished and a bit more positive about the next day and can get myself out of the rut. And I'm beginning to become aware when I'm slipping back into that negative state and really have to work to not slide back into the depressed and not doing much state.

    So yeah, I was trying to explain to him that he needs to perhaps look at doing the same. I know it's hard with working and other commitments, and being tired and exhausted but it's just a matter of starting in a small way and changing your perspective on things. Look at it as creating a better and healthy lifestyle, not like it's work, but something you will gain from because of all the positive benefits of better health, feeling accomplished, creating new and positive outlets etc....

    Anyhow, that's my bit of blurb for the day.

    I hope everyone is going well, and if not, at least find comfort in doing the best that you can and supporting yourself in small ways...

    Here's to Love and Light guiding us all on this treacherous journey.....


    Edit: on another note, I was reading Alexanders post about someone threatening him and possibly taking legal action against the site. Unbelievable is all I can say. This site has been a life saver for me. I can't understand anyone that would want to jeopardise all the good that this site does for so many people. I only hope that it passes over and the site is not threatened. Surely Karma would have to slam this person eventually for doing such a thing. Anyway, I will definitely help support Alex in anyway possible if necessary, like I say if it wasn't for this site and the community of people who have helped and supported me, I honestly don't know where I would be right now!!!
  5. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    I want my husband to be honest about his feelings, but he ALSO needs to show understanding, support and compassion about HOW THAT could make me feel at times. It’s imperative that he’s honest, but the reality is there’s going to be times that those feelings may cause concern, possibly make me feel unsafe or trigger insecurity in me.

    I don’t think this is a reason for him not to be honest.
    INSTEAD be understanding and supportive of HOW I might be feeling too and WHY I feel like that.

    Unfortunately, I don’t get that from him.
    I get the words “I understand” but that’s it. Just words.

    Then it IMMEDIATELY goes to how he NOW feels because
    I’ve expressed concern or uncertainty.

    I don’t think it’s fair at all.

    The situation I’m referring to is, after work we were talking, and he told me “When he’s feeling extremely tired and stressed (like he was) if he knew he couldn’t get found out and it was easily accessible, he feels he would really struggle to stay strong and resist looking at porn. That he may cave in and relapse at that point. He said, although he doesn’t feel like this often, it’s still there.

    Now at the time, I listened and was supportive of him as I understand tiredness and stress are triggers for him. I didn’t make it about me, or how it made me feel. I tried to make him feel validated, make him feel heard and understood and supported. We discussed it for about 10 minutes and then he laid next to me and slept for a couple of hours.

    After thinking it over I realised it was concerning me, I was starting to feel unsafe and insecure. He is often tired and stressed and he has no outside support like therapist or support groups etc, only NF. So, the next day, I said I wanted to talk more about it. I asked if he felt he needed to be doing more recovery work related to the porn addiction itself, whether the tools and support mechanisms he has in place are enough? Currently his focus is on IA work and the Present Process books he’s reading with his AP.

    It immediately turned to an argument, because he showed no understanding of WHY I would ask these things. I was very calm and considerate in my approach. I was not attacking him in any way. But all he did was go on about his feelings of how it makes him feel attacked, how I’m making him feel he’s not doing enough. He eventually said he knows I’m not attacking him but that’s how he feels.


    I tried to explain why I was concerned, why I was potentially feeling unsafe and insecure but all he wanted was validation and understanding of his own feelings.

    It wasn’t long ago we watched the Helping Her Heal video. He did nothing that Doug Weiss says to do in it. Instead he made it all about himself. The previous evening, I had listened and supported and understood him but when it became MY TURN to be understood and supported he made it about himself.

    Doug Weiss talks about UNDERSTANDING your wife and “WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE”.

    To understand is literally to “Stand Under Her”

    DON’T GO OVER THE TOP of her with your thoughts and feelings.

    Be under her, take the weight of the burden she’s feeling, support her, reassure her that you understand why she feels this way, reassure her that it’s perfectly normal after everything that’s happened that she feels like this, reassure her that she is safe and secure and that you will do everything in your power to make sure she is safe and secure.


    I got the words “I understand”
    I did not get the behaviour that goes with it.

    I got him going over the top of me.
    He couldn’t support me first.

    I had already given him time and support the evening before.
    He couldn’t do the same for me.

    He had to go over the top and make it about himself.
    I was expected to validate & support him when I needed it.

    It left me feeling traumatised.
    Uncared about.
  6. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Just the first part of your reply, I thought I better make sure you understand that he didn't ACTUALLY RELAPSE.... this was all about when he feels extremely stressed and tired.....

    I'm sure you GOT that, just thought I should point it out in case you didn't.....because I know he'll think he's being treated like he actually relapsed.

  7. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    It's all this that is the problem. He's been told time and time again by me, by you, in the articles and videos by BT therapists. He says he understands but that quite frankly is useless if you don't do any of it. He thinks I'm upset with his honest answers, his explanations. I'm not. I'm upset with the fact that he cannot take the focus of himself. The subject matter is constantly about him. It's that simple.

    It's not that I don't care. It's I don't care to keep listening about him anymore. It's not appropriate, it's out right inconsiderate, in fact it's traumatising after hours and hours of it, day after day, when he should be as you said "listening, empathizing, validating her safety, security"

    Can you imagine someone who is in pain, who is suffering, who is traumatised, who is clearly upset and in dire strait need of some help and support and the only person there cannot stop talking about themselves.....yeah it's like that!!
  8. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

    So sorry you are going through this. It is so familiar to me. My husband would tell me something that was honest, but difficult for me to hear. I had insisted he do this as part of trust rebuilding, so I knew I would hear difficult things. I would listen, thank him for telling me, and ask if he had more he wanted to say about it, etc. I would listen until he was finished. Then, if it was something very triggering for me, I would ask if I could get more information or reassurances about it. That's when he would come unglued and start accusing me of "attacking" or "criticizing" him and at his worst, would say things like, "I guess I shouldn't have told you". So maddening. How am I not supposed to have feelings and feel threatened about some of the things he said?"

    It's like if I got home from work and the following happened:

    Me: "Honey, I'm home! Guess what? On my way home from work I really had the urge to set some puppies on fire, but I resisted the urge! Aren't you proud of me? Can I get a high-five?!"

    Him: "Ummm. Yeah - I'm really proud of you. Now can we maybe talk about why you wanted to set puppies on fire?"

    Me: "Wah! I thought you'd be proud of me! Stop attacking me! I'm never telling you anything again!"

    Grrr. Sorry - I guess I had a lot to say about this.

    Anyway, I'm with ya....
  9. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    You get me Sister!! What you wrote is how it goes to a TEE. Then the next part goes like this, I have to validate, acknowledge all of what he's now FEELING. It's like we just completely SKIPPED the part of me getting reassurances, me receiving support and comfort, him making me feel safe & secure. The tables have been completely turned to him (again) happens every time. It's complete selfishness really - SELF-CENTEREDNESS!!!

    Like Doug Weiss says he's the one causing the escalation every time because he wants from me what I'm supposed to be getting from him. He can't carry out what he's supposed to be doing because he wants it for himself. And it just doesn't work. He caused the trauma in me. Like GW said, his addiction spawned my trauma, so whether he likes it or not, he doesn't get first precedence over me. It's that simple. It's not that his pain or feelings aren't important, they need to validated and acknowledged too. But that needs to happen AFTER he has given what I need. He needs to get in line, stop barging to the front. I can't validate or support him until I get it from him first. I can't give from an empty cup.
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  10. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    As ridiculous as it seems I feel like I need to write a DIALOGUE of what I need to hear.


    HIM: For the next 10 minutes I promise not to talk about myself. I won't try to discuss my feelings or give explanations. This is about you. We will talk about me later.

    HIM: Thanks for letting me be honest with you. It must be extremely difficult when I say, if I am extra tired and stressed, if I knew I couldn’t get caught and it was easily accessible, I would really struggle to resist looking at porn. Of course it would have caused you worry and concern. You would have felt panic, and the fear would have engulfed you. You should not hold in what your feeling. You should tell me how it traumatises you, after all you lived with this fear and panic for 8 solid years, while I was lost in my addiction. I totally invalidated you then and told you that your fear, trauma and pain was unfounded but it was a lie. Your pain is real. Your trauma is real. You have every reason to have fears. It's definitely OK that you ask me if I'm doing enough porn recovery work. It's OK that you ask do I have enough tools and mechanisms. It's OK to want to discuss these and for you to seek reassurance. I know you are not attacking me or criticising me when you say these things. It makes total sense that you would ask. Because these are your fears. This is what you are feeling insecure about. I understand & realise your greatest fear in all this is for me to relapse and go back to my addiction. You are expressing this because you have fears not because you are trying to attack or give me a hard time. I totally get this. I want you to know, no matter how much work or effort is involved I am going to use EVERY tool and resource possible that there is. I won't leave any stone unturned. I won't stop because it's too hard. I realise you need to know this to feel safe, to feel secure. I want you to know, if I feel vulnerable to relapse that I also see this is as a WARNING SIGN that I need to re-evaluate, and probably need to do more. And I assure you I will do more. I know in the past I have just said all this and never meant it. Therefore, I know you need my reassurance on all this regularly. I do mean every word I say. I am not lying to you. I also want to reassure you that I won't stop being honest with you just because I know I have to deal with the aftermath of the triggers or trauma you may feel from it. These are your Fears. And I need to empathise, reassure and support you like I am now.
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  11. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    As a guy, I get swamped by a lot of emotions.
    Having things explained to me is a gift as I learn.

    Adding the PA level of ‘skill’ lessness,
    I find explanation a huge gift.

    A friend is currently in rehab for SA.
    In one call he described role playing
    With others aspects of the SA/So dynamic.

    He found that so helpful
    to his understanding
    of his part; good work.
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  12. Br1 R1

    Br1 R1 Fapstronaut

    @GhostWriter Yes I read this back to her, felt good to have the right words, have committed to reading this everyday as well.
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  13. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

    This IS NOT ridiculous. I have found that there are even particular word combinations, etc that specifically address what I need to hear. My husband always said I was looking for ways to condemn him, but in fact, I was often actually feeding him the exact lines I needed to hear to help me exonerate him. There were countless times I was able to convince myself to stay with him and the process by doing that.
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  14. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

    unjenga - I like that!
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  15. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    It's been a busy weekend getting prepared for events we have on today. Feeling a bit more organised there at least. Today's focus is getting client work done in my business and meeting those deadlines.

    The last few days have been spent really trying to reevaluate & assessing where I'm at with my healing & recovery. I started the MA course with no information really or scope of what any of it was about. The more I find out about it the more rigid and maladaptive it feels. Unfortunately parts of it just don't feel right, feels off. I absolutely cannot align with the 12 step program. It comes across to me like the "Co-dependent Model" which totally grates against the "Trauma Model" that I feel more in tune and aligned with. And I am totally non-religious. I don't like organised religion at all. I have no issue with others who want to believe in that and can respect that so long as they can respect my non-belief. It gives you the option of replacing god with whatever higher power I want to put there but I just can't fill it with anything that actually makes it meaningful. It's still void/empty. Still hollow. Most of the questions / work within the program seem ok and I can appreciate the value there. There needs to be an Agnostic / Athiest version of the program. It would make so much more sense. On the weekend I found some athiest / agnostic 12 steps. These have been written as an alternative to the traditional "GOD" focused 12 steps. Apparently there's a few different versions amongst the different secular organisations so I'm going to see if any of these 12 steps align with me. Just the fact it's 12 steps for the spouse of the addict makes it very "co-dependent model" which totally puts me off. Like because he's sick, I'm sick to now.

    Found some course work on building intimacy, emotional bonding / connection & empathy that might be worth looking into. Need to sit down and spend time going through the module outlines and work involved. It's mostly video recordings too i think which is easier than reading. Husband has expressed interest in looking at these with me, so aim to look at that during the week.

    For months now we have been having numerous problems with child C. It's all just really come to a head in the last few weeks. Everyday has been a constant struggle with him, enforcing boundaries & consequences which he blatantly defies and makes it very clear he doesn't care and no amount of consequences will stop him. It's been unbelievably exhausting for both husband and me. But we've been working as a united front (more so than ever), and I think (hope) Child C is starting to realise we are not going to back down. He truanted high school for the first time last week, twice, as well now. This is on top of numerous other issues. The Deputy from school was in contact with me Friday because he was nowhere to be found. Just trying to deal with him this weekend on it's own has been tough. He will be confronted by the Deputy today for last weeks behaviour and more consequences in place by the school now to come.

    Had a good nights sleep even though I was awake much earlier than normal. Didn't feel as exhausted and foggy as I usually do. Must have got more deep sleep. Feeling more positive in myself.

    We've been getting along well. Couple of hiccups with issues around the house that we were able to quickly resolve. Spoke to him about the whole MA/IA work and he totally understands my view point and thinks he would feel the same if the tables were turned. We are going to find a way I can still support him in it without me having to immerse myself in a codependent model.

    That's all for now,

    hydroxide likes this.
  16. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    The m&a book is modeled around the BT model, which is a trauma model (PTSD) it's interdependent to the marriage, turning your spouse Tward you instead of outward Tward others (like he was seeking salvation to gaining his emotional & sexual support in porn)

    There are many resources comparing trauma models to codependency models and betrayal trauma to codependency, but they, while appearing outwardly similar, are actually very different.
    Its important to make a informed decision before making leaps and bounds in recovery. If you don't believe you were traumatized that badly by his past ongoing voyeuristic porn use, then maybe a third option is right for you.

    Sorry about your kids, that's gotta be rough
    Good luck
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 likes this.
  17. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    My husband is starting to have realisations that he needed to start seeing 8-10 years ago (realistically even longer), before Child A even reached double digits, and before Child B & C followed suit. Now as the youngest moves to middle teens and the older siblings closer to adulthood, he's starting to see (or at least get a glimpse) at how insidious his addiction has really been to this family, like a cancer it has ravaged through and permeated everyone's lives and affected not only me but our children.

    It's better to start realising something now rather than never. But it's also like FINALLY arriving with buckets of water or a hose to put out the house fire that burnt out yesteryear. Unfortunately you can't just rewind your children's childhoods or teenage years. You can't just give them all the direction, guidance, love, support and time that they should have gotten back then. They only get one childhood. The damage is done. And Now you've got an even bigger problem on your hands, one that has been snowballing for about as long as your addiction, and is now about 1000x the size that it ever would have been. If only he had EVER listened to the countless conversations that were tried to be had with him about this. About the ramifications and consequences that would undoubtedly unfold. They feel anger, resentment, loss, betrayal, sadness, misguided and even depression at times too. Over all they've endured, all they have lost or never received. I TOTALLY get it, I know what they FEEL because I felt it all those years too, and still do.

    The decisions you made and the behaviours you chose, that caused you to become distant, withdrawn and emotionally & mentally unavailable didn't just hurt your wife but it hurt and continues to hurt, your children too.

    And on top of it all, a lot of this blame gets directed at me. And I wonder why that is?? Because WHO blamed me all those years?? and WHO "GASLIT ME" in front of them all those years?? Their FATHER of course!!

    It reminds me of the "Nails in the Fence" story, the moral being no matter how many times you say sorry, the holes in the fence remain. They will remain there forever. The fence will never be the same.

    And now it's all about playing catch-up basically, I just don't know that THAT can ever be CAUGHT up!!!

    (Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we set out to deceive!)
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
    hydroxide and Trappist like this.
  18. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    Sad realization. :(

    Made me think of my relative’s booze addiction and the generational nature of it. We were warned many times helping to inoculate a bit. SA/PA not so much, but I read and see a generational thing, too.

    Not to ignore freewill in this.

    Inoculating kids now still work?
    Recall Alateen was encouraged to begin to give kids understanding and recovery.

    Edit. Like nails story...
    HonestyMatters likes this.
  19. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut

    Yes, they say some family lines are just more addiction prone than others. Apparently studies show, that "Addiction is due 50 percent to genetic predisposition and 50 percent to poor coping skills"

    I guess ALL any parent can do is educate their children as best they can, try and be the best role models possible and try and guide them in the right direction. And Never stop talking to them. Then as you say you can't stop "freewill". I think it would be naive to think that most teenagers won't experiment with different things at times. All you can hope is their smart enough to not stay there. You can drill it into their heads as much as you like but at the end of the day it's ultimately out of our hands. Pot smoking is the issue at hand at present and quite frankly there could be far worse things. It's terrifying for any parent to know how easily they can get their hands on ANY drugs or prescription meds these days. With social media & tech they have a far greater reach and what they can easily get access to in the playground alone is friggin SHOCKING!!
    Trappist and hope4healing like this.
  20. hope4healing

    hope4healing Fapstronaut

    Hey @HonestyMatters , just wondering how you're doing since you haven't written for a little while. I hope everything is going well. :)

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