Karezza: sex without O

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by ILoathePwife, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    First off, I get it. I was very skeptical in the beginning too. But, having successfully had sex without O with my husband for nearly a month, I can say I am a believer. We both eventually did intentionally go for Os, but learned from that too. In fact, if anything it made us more interested in karezza. I'm not saying my husband and I will forgo Os for the rest of our lives, but we have noticed big benefits and want to continue experimenting with it.

    Now that that’s out of the way: I’ve wanted to start a thread about karezza, sex without O, for a while now. My husband and I have learned so much by incorporating this into our hard mode reboot. I’ve been sharing information about FANOS and karezza with basically any couple I come across.

    This post is an abbreviated version of what we’ve learned so far and a list of links and resources for information about karezza. I’m sharing the full version of our story in my journal.

    I do caution that people don’t read up on karezza immediately after they start a reboot, because it could be a trigger. And, if you are doing hard mode reboot, I’d suggest you stick with monk mode (no sex activity at all) at least for a few weeks in the beginning. Karezza is awesome but the siren song of the O can be difficult to resist. My husband and I are a testament to that, as we have both now Oed multiple times. Having said that, he will be resetting our counters and we will be returning to our hard mode reboot and karezza. Partially because my husband sincerely wants to do the reboot hard mode, in hopes of kicking the P addiction, and partially because we both agree we want to experiment more with karezza anyway.

    Here are some of the benefits we have noticed, which I believe can be attributed directly to karezza. I’m using sexual language here so I’m going to use a trigger warning.

    We stop focusing on the O and start enjoying all sensations more.
    We both notice increased sensitivity and pleasure during PIV, with much more varied movements.
    We start craving naked time with each other.
    We are both ready and willing at a moment's notice.
    There's no ending point, so we can lose track of time easily.
    Previously I Oed from direct stimulation, not PIV. Now I easily O from PIV multiple times, usually after one direct stimulation O. The PIV Os are awesome but generally not as intense as direct stimulation Os. (Of course, keep in mind Os are not the point of karezza.)
    He seems to be able to maintain a much harder erection and for much longer periods of time.

    We notice other changes as well, but we could possibly have also had those same improvements without trying karezza. My reasoning is that those improvements are present during sex with or without O.

    Those are:
    Sex is both more intense and more tender than in the past.
    We even have conversations in the lulls between starting again. (something my husband didn't previously enjoy, even after sex)
    No need for lubrication as my natural lube is plenty. (And more enjoyable for my husband.)

    If you’d like to read up on karezza, here’s a list of links I’ve found helpful.

    The basic overview from YBOP.

    The “karezza rules.” (Hint, there are none. Except karezza is sex without O.)

    Possible downsides to O.

    A website with everything you might have wanted to know about karezza and more.

    An ABC News article from 2012.

    “Cupid’s Poisoned Arrow” is a book I’ve ordered but not yet finished reading. Here are some reviews of that book.

    Also, I’d love to hear other people’s experiences with karezza!

    (The other thing we have done, besides the reboot and karezza, is FANOS and nonsexual cuddling. Read more here.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  2. Thatguy167

    Thatguy167 Fapstronaut

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    I may not be the perfect candidate to talk about this topic, but since I used to do something similar with a former girlfriend of mine I thought I might as well share it.

    While we mostly had sex with O or Os as the goal, from time to time we tried going as long as we could enjoy it without ever reaching O. It wasn't always 'just' PIV and it wasn't always as sensual and slow as what you describe, but sometimes it was. Some times we used it to make ourselves crave each other's touch by having sex without orgasming right before meeting up with friends or something along those lines.
    Still, whenever we did it I actually noticed that I was able to appreciate our physical and emotional connection much more and that my arousal was reaching and staying at higher levels than with Os. And while we both craved orgasming and always returned to it at some point, it was an amazing experience which did not stop at the act itself, but also made both of us enjoy each other much more when it comes to simply spending time together. I just started seeing her in a different way, felt kind of connected to her.

    I can only imagine how amazing it would be to all out go for this approac and have the effects be part of everyday life and how much it could improve a relationship.
    I also believe it might actually take a lot more trust and familiarity than 'regular' sex, so being in a serious relationship might help. But that's just speculation.
     
  3. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    That's awesome! I'm glad you shared. And, yes, I do believe it's best suited for a serious long term relationship. Both partners also need to be on board. If one Os and the other doesn't, I'm not sure it would work.
     
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  4. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for sharing!! I hope more people learn about this. It is true that sex with orgasm is meant for procreation but sex without O is meant for pleasure and bonding between partners.
     
  5. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    I hope more people learn about it too! It's a big leap for some. They just can't imagine sex without O. And, honestly, I couldn't either until we tried it. But, really, what will it hurt if you try it?
     
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  6. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    The thing that bugs me most is...people seem to think that the honeymoon phase feelings in a relationship just inevitably fade over time. With what I've learned about karezza, couples who practice it experience increased intensity of those feelings, even more so than they did when they first were falling for each other, and they experience this while the intimacy in their relationship is deepening.

    So, they get to know each other better and better, and still experience that intensity of positive emotions towards each other. Most people think the romantic intensity in a relationship has to die, once both people know each other well, and the mystery isn't there anymore....

    Perhaps, people just kill their own romantic attraction with too much O...
     
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  7. Ikindaknew

    Ikindaknew Fapstronaut

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    Well, that is exactly what the main attraction of Karezza is....being able to revive and maintain a satisfactory (or great as promised) level of healthy love and passion. Good for all ages, but especially for aging couples too. Once you take sexual performance out of the equation, there is a lot more room for straight loving, cuddling and mutual affection.

    also, it highlights what happens when couples are not aware of the dangers of the addiction to sex, porn, reward circuits fireworks, etc. They are living with these cycles in their lives without knowing why or what...porn, adultery, massage parlors, etc....something fills the void, or there is a gap between the couple...emotional or physical (sexless marriage, separate bedrooms)....

    The more I read Cupid's, the more it opens my eyes...it has to stop, or those eyeballs will eventually fall off. But I mean its a serious eye opener for me.

    It explains my grumpiness cycles, urges, etc....before, during PMO, this cycle was overshadowed by the fap-to-porn daily ejac...but now that I rebooted quite decently, I now see that sex addiction for what it is....it was there for me before porn was! It was there since I started to fap as a teen....

    So, the learning is worth millions, and the book cost me $20. Good value ratio!
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
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  8. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    Why do guys worry about sexual performance anyways? We girls aren't worried about how you perform, we just want you to be emotionally present with us and make us feel known and appreciated.
     
  9. Thatguy167

    Thatguy167 Fapstronaut

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    Still, there's always that thought in the back of our heads. I mean, if you are in a relationship with us, there is no reason to think that we are not enough. But I guess it is part of the male nature to always compete. Be it with former boyfriends or whatever we think should be the standard. We might, for example, feel emasculated, if we don't manage to bring our partner to orgasm.
    It's something we tend to put a lot of emphasis on, even if we are in a safe, loving environment.
    Sure, ONS are another matter and orgasms are usually mutually sought, but you are right. There are more important aspects. For men and women alike. Sex should be about comfort, pleasure, intimacy, emotional and physical bonding. Not just orgasms.

    The part about the performance should be left out at a certain point, allowing for a more relaxed and honest, emotional and sensual bonding.
     
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  10. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    This makes sense, and thanks for responding. I guess what I really mean is that connecting (being mentally and emotionally present) with the woman first is really a necessary part of performing well-if he is able to see, feel, and deeply understand how she is feeling in response to his actions, he will have plenty of accurate data from which to perform. He will know how she wants to feel and how he can make her feel that way.

    And it's probably good that men are competitive about sex. It probably keeps things more interesting for everyone involved. Although allowing for a more relaxed and honest, emotional and sensual bonding is just as good.

    Am I making sense? haha
     
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  11. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    Also, in the past I've been with guys who were so worried about performing well that they couldn't connect with me, ironically resulting in them being not so good in bed. Even if he doesn't know how to pleasure me, just making me feel seen and understood goes a long way towards making me enjoy it. So, this is the experience I'm speaking from
     
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  12. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    I'd say that's the ideal, yes. But of course, with society's focus on sex, size, multiple orgasms, kinks, ect., (thanks to P, unfortunately) I would say there are women out there that do focus on performance. I wasn't focused on that, but years ago, before I knew about my husband's P addiction, we did go through a PIED period and since I didn't know what was going on, I assumed it must be something wrong with me. So even if we women aren't all about performance for our pleasure's sake, we might have some messed up ideas about what sex should be like and how things should go in bed.

    Having said that, now that my husband and I are having sex where he is emotionally present with me and makes me feel known and appreciated, I can say that is way awesome!!

    I think it's important to respect that some people just aren't ready for certain things. As passionate as I am about karezza and FANOS, I have to accept that not everybody is going to take my recommendations. And that's OK.
     
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  13. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    Yep. Connection really is key. And being open to direction! A guy can't know what's going on in a girl's body. He has to be willing to listen.
     
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  14. Ikindaknew

    Ikindaknew Fapstronaut

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    It a man thing. Maybe partly brought up by porn. Surely brought up by articles in the 80's and the 90's about how to please the ladies. about men not lasting long enough, etc...
    But honestly, every health and fitness mag, plus half the popular magazines have articles about how to please more, how to drive her crazy, etc.
    Stuff like sex and the city (of course, just a parody) is still about women searching for better lovers...

    So some of us like me, earlier in life, decided that they had to please to keep a woman. It's my take on it!
     
  15. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    True, women can have distorted ideas about sex, of course. Communication between partners is golden for overcoming any of these misconceptions.

    But I'm very glad to hear that sex with you and your husband is way awesome, now!!!

    And yes, it's good to remember that, even though sometimes I feel frustrated (because I'm scared that I'll never have the relationship and the sex that I crave) but everybody has their own preferences and that's a good thing.

    Yeah, being open to direction and feedback is so so helpful. And of course it's important that neither person attack the other when they're not satisfied.
     
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  16. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I think this is true. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
     
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  17. Jodo Kus

    Jodo Kus Fapstronaut

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    Very interesting! I will reread this when I'm with my gf.
    That's great! But still you're talking much about the O. Because it belongs to sex like the topping on a cake pop, right? I know post-sex blues but that's just a down after a high. If my woman doesn't get an O she got the real blues! I come 99 %, but ok, it happened that I didn't came during sex neither afterwards and it wasn't a problem.
    Anyway, isn't the point of tantra and all that the semen retention (O's: yes, ejaculation: no) ?
    And I still don't know what's true: semen retention IS good for your health or IS NOT. There must be at least clues on a scientific level. Has anyone scientific sources for me? I can't find them on the internet. Only New Age sites, pseudo-journalism and ads ads ads :(
     
  18. ILoathePwife

    ILoathePwife Fapstronaut

    I don't know, I think it's more than a down after a high. I've been reading "cupids poisoned arrow" and I'm getting more and more convinced I want to really explore karezza. My husband is skeptical but willing. During the month we were not Oing we had such loving, forgiving feelings toward each other and my husband's brain fog reduced greatly. Once we started Oing I've been noticing more fights and they are getting more intense. Plus his brain fog is back to a degree. I'm also getting less cuddling and nonsexual touch. I'm starting to see Os like a drug. You get a hit, you feel good, you hit a low, you crave more drug as you go through withdrawals.

    I'm not sure yet on Os with no E. I haven't finished the book yet. Tantra is different than karezza, at any rate. Plus, my husband was working on Os with no E and I have noticed the negative effects. (Such as brain fog, tiredness, irritability, less interest in tenderness/cuddling.)

    I'm starting to wonder if the benifit of a hard mode reboot is not just rewiring the brain, but discovering karezza. I'm curious to hear from other hard mode rebooters, like @ChangeMattersToMe, once he and his wife complete the reboot and go back to Os. Personally, I didn't notice the negative effects immediately, but with multiple Os in several sessions, it started to pile up. Reading the book helped me to know what to look for and I highly recommend it!
     
  19. Jodo Kus

    Jodo Kus Fapstronaut

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    Can't tell if orgasms cause brainfog in general. Aggressivity? I don't think so.
    I would suggest that certain "drugs" as well as ups and downs just belong to our lives.
     
  20. Sleeping_Beauty

    Sleeping_Beauty Fapstronaut

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    I really think so...I mean this isn't exactly a logical connection, but it just theoretically makes sense that karezza would be nature's way of sex without contraception-when all you want to do is to have pleasure and bonding with a partner. Here in America, in school they teach you about how the birth control pill made having lots of sex "possible" as if people just couldn't do it before because they'd cause too many unwanted pregnancies. It seems sad to think that for all these thousands of years, most people couldn't enjoy active sex lives just because there was no birth control...but then I'd realize "well the guy can just...not. come. Can't he? Wait a minute, that's so simple. All he has to do is not come."

    I mean we all know sex has the purpose of creating a new life, but almost everybody also wants to have sex just for pleasure, intimacy, and bonding. It makes sense that nature would include a way for people to do that. As fupornwife has talked about, karezza actually increases your sensitivity (and most of us MO addicts on here know about how orgasms dull sensitivity in the long run) and hence increases your physical pleasure. It increases the emotional pleasure too, since it keeps the positive feelings for your partner alive, helps you two have the depth of intimacy that human beings crave, and the security of bonding in your relationship. So, having sex with O = intense release of energy, losing that energy, and putting it into the creation of a baby. Karezza = more pleasure, more intimacy, more bonding, and no loss of energy.

    I think the focus on O in sex hurts couples, because it's not what nature (or God, or evolution, or what have you) fashioned us to do.
     

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