Leaving, at last...

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by DesperateHousewife7, May 31, 2019.

  1. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    I haven’t been on the forum in a long time, but I used to read most of these journals. Coming back last night and reading through, I was surprised to see (yet proud) how many of you veterans have finally left or are in the process of leaving their PA. And strangely, it gives me hope and encouragement because deep down, it’s what I’ve wanted for the past 7 years. Marriage is sacred to me and I poured in my entire heart and soul, every resource I had into making mine work. I knew that I had landed myself in a fucked up situation but I love my husband so I forced myself to focus on the positive, the vows I made, and to do everything in my power to fix us and create the marriage I imagined when I married him.

    But... almost 8 years later, I’m realizing that it isn’t possible. When only one person in the marriage values and honors the marriage, it won’t happen. When the other person instead consistently repeats actions that are known to drag down and break the marriage, as well as their spouse, it can’t happen. It doesn’t matter how many times he says he’s sorry and he will change. It’s not real.

    My life is real. My happiness is real. My value of a sacred marriage is real, and I will have that one day. I just don’t think I can force it with a man who has no problem neglecting and lying for the sake of thousands of naked women.

    I want to go. I don’t know how, but I’m going to spend this next year solidifying that decision and getting my ducks in a row. I’ve given him so much time. I started school two years ago and I told him straight up that my intention with this is because I want a divorce but I need to support myself, and he promised me that by then we would be good and he would change and make it all up to me. Well, I’m graduating in a couple weeks and look where I am. He knew what was at stake. And I guess he chose to once again not take it seriously. I’m hurt tremendously by his choices but it is what it is. I’m ready to move on.
     
  2. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I'm so sorry things didn't work out more positively for your marriage. It's going to be a tough road but you are strong and you can do this. You need to take care of you and sometimes moving forward means moving on. Best of luck to you in this next step of your life.
     
  3. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Congratulations on graduating. It sounds like you’re coming from a rational place of solid decisions. You’ve given your all and looking at all your options is brave and courageous. You’ve gone through hell and come out the other side. You’re destined to be successful.
    You go girl , with head held high.
     
    Kiz Whalifa and EyesWideOpen like this.
  4. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. I think it’s the best decision. Especially after last night. I thought about everything and decided I was going to speak with him. I told him about my concerns that he is still not working his recovery and I explained why. He denied it but then eventually after seeing that I wasn’t buying it, admitted that he has been jerking off to sexually explicit material this whole time that I suspected. I told him that can’t keep living this way and that there are only 2 options from here on out. He can either agree to take a polygraph test to absolve himself and free me from my “paranoia”, because my gut intuition is very important to me, it’s all I have, and I need to verify that it works correctly. Or, I told him I am no longer interested in being his romantic partner in life and I will be working towards moving on. At the mention of the polygraph test, he immediately grew angry and shut it down, saying he would sooner divorce ME than be “put through that” because it’s “dehumanizing” and that I need to just trust him. Once I explained to him once again why I can’t trust him and that this is the only way I would even consider listening to anything more he has to say, he started the usual playback of apologies, “I need more time” and “just let me...” as if I’d been not letting him do something this whole time. So yeah, that was annoying, and solidified for me who he really is, and that I’m over it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  5. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    It’s never an easy decision. Life is short and requesting a polygraph is not unreasonable given the situation. Trust your gut. Hold your head high and know that you’ve exhausted all resources to try and heal your marriage.
    I wish you all the best in the future and know that you will succeed .
     
    DesperateHousewife7 likes this.
  6. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I'm so sorry it has come to this. Be assured that your gut was right this entire time. I know this addiction and the live we have for our PAs can make us question our intuition, but you knew and you drew your strength to courageously make this very tough decision. You are going to be okay. Bruised and battered for a while, but that will heal and you'll be stronger than when you started.
     
  7. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    I explained to him that my Boundaries and Consequences that we agreed upon explicitly stated that there would be zero tolerance for lying. And he asked me to give him a pass this time.

    That’s what I’m working with here.
     
  8. hope4healing

    hope4healing Fapstronaut

    This...IMO, this shows you very clearly the only thing he's concerned about, and unfortunately, it isn't you or the marriage. He got angry when you mentioned the polygraph because you'd thrown something at him that he knows he can't fool. Of course, he can't actually say that, though, so he did what PA's usually do when backed into a corner...he threatened and gaslit you. It's hardly dehumanizing for you to "put him through" telling the truth, but for someone still trying to protect their addiction, I'm sure it could be a tad bit uncomfortable. There's obviously no empathy from him at all for what he truly did 'put you through,' and that's much worse than just being honest.
    "This time"...I've come to hate that phrase because they seem to forget how many 'this time's' there have been already. "I really mean it this time." "I promise this time will be different." "This time you'll see that I really want to make things better."

    I'm sorry it's come to this. I know how heartbreaking it is to keep pouring your heart and soul into the marriage only to be met with more pain. Even though I know this isn't how you wanted things to go, I think you're amazing and strong and brave for having the courage to stand up for yourself and say enough is enough. And, you give strength to others by sharing your story. Hugs.
     
  9. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    It’s been about 3 days since I’ve spoken to him about my suspicions, found out I was right that he’s still having ED for porn/masturbation reasons, and suggested he do a polygraph test. You can see my previous posts for more details on how that went, if you’re curious.


    Now, after some time, he’s agreed to do the test, and he’s begging for ONE MORE chance. He says this time will be the last time and if he lies to me again, I can leave him. He said he’ll file for divorce himself if he does it again. He said I can give him random polygraph tests anytime I want to for the rest of my life. He says that this was the first time he tried to address the problem and fix it, but he made mistakes which he now will learn from and he will do it right this time and go back to his program and not leave until the CSAT clears him.


    I am very conflicted.


    A) Chances don’t work. I’ve given him probably about 10 chances now to really fix his fuck ups and work this out. I’m afraid that even if I do give him one more chance, I’m just setting him and myself up for failure because chances have historically failed us every time.


    B) According to our agreed upon Boundaries and Consequences, point B says that the ONLY thing that will not be tolerated and will cause an immediate end to our relationship as husband and wife is lying. He agreed to these terms, and then he lied again. (Specifically, the last time I initiated sex 2 weeks ago after him showing zero interest in sex for about 2 weeks, he had ED and I straight up asked him if this is because he jerked off already, and he said no and grew irritated with me that I’m accusing him of that when he’s just nervous because it’s been a while, and then 3 days ago confessed that I was indeed right.) So, I feel like I have to now execute my end of that agreement. If chances don’t work, maybe consequences will? Although, we did separate in September for this very same reason for about 2 months before I let him back on the couch, and it clearly didn’t work.


    C) I love him. I love every other aspect of our relationship, the family and life we’ve built, our friendship... I DO want for him to not be an addict and to not lie to me anymore and for us to flourish happily ever after. I DO NOT want to live the rest of my life dealing with the trauma of addiction, having to rely on polygraph tests, or any of the other bullshit and triggers I deal with on a daily basis as a result of HIS addiction. This addiction is not like alcohol or drugs- it’s something that is a personal attack against me as his wife/sex partner. It’s me choosing to live with an addiction that causes my husband to choose to get off to other women/his own hand rather than me every time I want sex and to feel desired. He can’t get it up, he’s already jerked off. Sorry.


    But I can’t have both. I’ve tried. For almost 8 years now. So I have to choose, do I stay married to the man I love and sacrifice my mental freedom and the most intimate part of my marriage? Or do I sacrifice the man I love, the father of my babies, my very best friend, the person whose opinion I value more than anyone else’s, and the unity of my family, and my current lifestyle- in exchange for my mental freedom from this addiction and potential future opportunity of a different kind of relationship?


    Damn. I have 100 people telling me to choose option 2, and 1 person (the addict I love) telling me to choose option 1- and why am I more inclined to option 1?!?!


    I wish I didn’t have to be the one to make these decisions.
     
    Lilla_My likes this.
  10. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    Have you ever been separated temporarily before? Maybe a trial separation of some significant but limited duration wherein he is 100% off of PMO in a verifiable way would be a sort of "middle path"?

    I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you. I'm sad you are in this terrible position.
     
  11. HonestyMatters

    HonestyMatters Fapstronaut


    Yes, everything about this addiction and living with it as the SO is so conflicting. I understand your pain and can see you've pretty much tried everything. You have got some hard decisions to make. I guess the polygraph tests is something you haven't tried and he is now agreeing to it. He is obviously still stuck in his addiction and any recovery work he may have tried is not working. I can totally understand why you would want to just walk away and be done with it. I've felt and currently been feeling the same way. Although my husband is doing recovery work, but it's only what he wants to do and sometimes it's hit and miss depending on how he's feeling at the time. He doesn't see any therapist but he is trying more than I've ever seen him. If you decided to stay and do the polygraph's, he needs to also analyse why his recovery is not working. Does he really want to recover? Why does he keep failing? What is it going to take for him to hit rock bottom? He needs to do some serious self-evaluation. And he doesn't seem to be taking you or your boundaries seriously. How strict are your boundaries. Does he do daily check-ins with you? I've just finished updating my B & C's today in my journal if you want to take a look. We still have a lot problems but I think we have made progress over the past 10 months and our bad times are getting less frequent and lesser in duration. Although in saying that our latest dilemma feels like a major slide backwards. I still have a lot of doubt about whether he is lying to me. Sometimes wish we had the polygraph option here too. But this is also why the daily check-ins are good because it at least gives me some gauge of his sincerity and honesty on a daily basis.
     
  12. Lostneverland

    Lostneverland Fapstronaut

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    Yes this addiction SUCKS big time...choices and decisions. What if you didn’t have to choose?

    What if you put it all on him?
    You both agreed to no lying (boundary) if he chose to lie the marriage would end.(consequence)
    What if instead of you making the decision to stay or leave , you presented it to him!

    YOU: Okay hubby...we agreed to no lying. You have admitted you lied. What are you going to do now?
    Hubby...I want a second chance, please I’m sorry, one more chance...bla bla bla
    You...well you agreed that you wouldn’t lie and here we are...so what are you going to do?
    Hubby...I want a second chance...
    YOU...I’m unprepared to do that. I want to live my life with integrity and stick to our initial plan, my words and your words mean something to me.
    Hubby...but I want a second chance don’t you understand...etc...
    YOU:..yes I understand you want a second chance, but that’s not what we agreed to, so what is your solution? What are you going to do?

    Continue on rephrasing your same question...until he responds with ...I don’t know what to do...or you can tell him what you want...therapy weekly, regular SAattendance, polygraph tests or whatever you think is necessary . If he agrees great...make sure you know exactly what you want, need and desire...do not settle for less. Be firm and consistent.
    Hold yourself accountable to your boundaries as well.
    It’s their addiction and it’s their responsibility to fix it...you can’t do it for them.

    IF on the other hand you want to through in the towel...that’s okay to. Life is short and anything can happen , life is meant to be lives not survived , one crisis to the next.

    Good luck...and have faith that everything will work out for the best possible outcome.
     
    Square79 likes this.
  13. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    I'm so sorry to hear about this. It is obvious that you have gone above and beyond to make this work. Your story highlights several things for me:

    I hear that you are struggling with boundary enforcement. I think it illustrates one of the problems with boundaries and is one reason I never really set any. Smart people insist that they are mandatory, but also all agree that boundaries not enforced are worse than no boundaries at all. This makes things difficult because we cannot know ahead of time while setting the boundaries, either the exact circumstances under which boundaries might be broken or whether we will feel capable of responding with enforcement action at that time. To further aggravate that difficulty, as SOs, we are often asked to know the answer to whether we will be capable of enforcing boundaries WHILE we are in a state of least trusting our own intuition. And it is easy to set firm boundaries while we are exasperated and full of bravado, but can be difficult to enforce them when the time comes. Hence, the MULTIPLE "last" chances our partners receive, which in my opinion, are helpful to no one except to the addict desperate to hang on to his/her addiction just a little longer. Boundaries - in theory, great! In actual practice, not consistent evidence to be found on this site that they work as intended.

    Question for him : What is different this time?

    I'm alternately amused and infuriated whenever I hear PAs talk about dehumanization.
    1)They are reliant for their addiction fodder on an industry BASED on dehumanization.
    2)They practice their addiction by having sex with pixels (non-humans). I am reminded of one of the things I found on my husband's computer. For a while he frequented a site that pictured women in restraints being penetrated by mechanical dildos. The moment he jacked off to that, he lost all right to complain to me about feeling dehumanized. And don't even get me started on the beastiality videos...

    I guess dehumanization is only a problem if it happens to the PA. When it happens to others, it's super-sexy!

    I totally get this. This is the way I feel about my husband, from whom I am separated. He is perfect for me in every way. Except for that part about the entire secret life. I don't mean to make light. I really do understand and feel the same way.

    I am in no way suggesting that you leave OR stay. Obviously, it has to be up to you. But I want to let you know that there are other options besides staying or divorce. In my case, I decided on a separation. Not to punish him, not to drive him to "rock bottom", but because I realized I had to keep promises I had made to myself. I had reached the point where I not only couldn't trust him, but I also couldn't trust ME to have my own back. So I moved out. But I ALSO agreed, out of concern for him as a person and at his request, to continue to help him with his recovery. Here's what this looks like for us:

    Me finally being out from under the stress of day-to-day living in that shit and being able to work on my own healing, which enhances my ability to help him.

    No expectations for the future (at least on my part - he has made it clear he wants me to come back home).

    Frequent check-ins with him.

    I visit often and we have even gone out together a few times.

    Lots of me reading and offering feedback on the journaling he's doing.

    I am available by phone whenever he needs it, and so far he has not abused this or the visit.

    It does not include any sort of accountability or verification of sobriety for my benefit. If he wants to share, I will listen.

    So far, it's going very well. He seems to be making progress and I know I am making progress with my healing. I do appreciate the irony of me helping him heal so that he will be a better partner for some other woman in the future. But I'm okay with it. Even though I know too much to ever love him again, I still care about him and want the best for him.

    I guess I'm trying to say that it is possible to leave if you need to AND AT THE SAME TIME commit to providing loving support for him if you want to. OR whatever arrangement or solution works best for YOU. Sadly, as with all of us here, it's going to be a crap road for you no matter what you decide. So I say pick the road that best supports retention of your personal integrity.
     
  14. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    I loved every single thing you said. I don’t even know really how to respond because you hit every point accurately. I relate to you a lot. Your solution is pretty much exactly the solution I am looking for, at least for the time being. And that is pretty much exactly what we are doing except the separation is in house, because we are a one-income family and can’t afford to pay for two places to live. But, I don’t mind because I have a companion and someone to always help with the kids. Everything else is pretty much the same.
     
    Susannah likes this.
  15. Susannah

    Susannah Fapstronaut

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    Hugs to you....
     
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  16. mcgrim

    mcgrim Fapstronaut

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    It's not fair that you have to make this decision. Regardless of whether you choose option 1 or 2 and regardless of what people suggest you need to do what's best for you and it be what you want at this point.

    Advice given by others tends to be colored by their experiences and current state of mind. You know you, you know how you feel and I believe you have done everything you can. Whatever your choice is make sure it is what you want.

    I hope things work out the best way they can for you.
     
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  17. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    You’re absolutely right, it is up to me and nobody else can make the decision. I guess it just feels more “right” to have it corroborated. As much as I am sick of this and want it to be over, I don’t feel ready to let go of him. I don’t feel like this is finished. Like there’s still more fight left in me. Not much more, but there’s more. I have to come up with a plan that keeps me safe..
     
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  18. DesperateHousewife7

    DesperateHousewife7 Fapstronaut

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    I just feel so defeated and so stupid and so confused. I’m hurting so badly because I set consequences I can’t follow through on and it makes it feel like it’s my fault he doesn’t learn or get better. I’m just enabling him completely. I’m showing him that he can get away with anything and I’ll always be there to love him and get over it. I wish so badly that I could stop loving him. This would all be so simple. But I can’t stop no matter how badly he hurts he. Then I could just kick him out with no problem and not worry about it anymore. Why am I so weak and stupid?!

    I feel completely stuck frozen. I can’t bring myself to follow through on anything. I can’t end this. And I also can’t bring myself to give him the one more chance he’s begging for. I’m not ready. I’m not ready to allow myself to accept another cycle that ends in pain and heartbreak. Maybe if I just ignore it and don’t make any decisions. Pretend it never happened. If I tell him he has one more chance, and history is any lesson, I know that it will end soon and I don’t want it to end. I know he will fail. I know he’ll lie to me again. And then what?

    I’m enabling him. And that hurts me to my core. How the fuck did I end up married to an addict- with me as his enabler? And how do I stop? How do I fix this? It hurts so bad. I don’t wanna do this anymore.

    Can I just not do a goddamn thing? Please for the love of god I am so tired of this running my entire life.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  19. TheManDude

    TheManDude Fapstronaut

    I don't think I can say anything too helpful about your whole situation but reading this whole thread is clear that you're not weak or stupid at all. You're just a person that got incredibly hurt by a loved one. If anything I admire the way you tried to save your marriage that says to me that you are a very strong person and you should not blame yourself for your SO mistakes.

    I wish you the best and hope you can find the peace you need.
     
    Psalm27:1my light likes this.
  20. Tao Jones

    Tao Jones Fapstronaut

    To stay will be painful. To leave will be painful. The choice is yours.

    Think about five years from now. Where would you like to be? What action can you take today that will help move you toward what you envision?

    Quitting PMO can be the hardest fight we ever fight. Quitting a PMO addict can be equally difficult. Rock bottom is what it takes to move us off the dime sometimes. Losing everything often serves as that motivation.

    None of it is easy.
     

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