Let Talk about History (past study)

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by jk243, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    Over the Xmas period, I've been learning about the history of carols. Interesting stuff... Quite a number where written first as poems and then the music was composed. A lot of them were written by people who weren't Christians and that's why some Christians have issues with their theology.

    O Holy Night was written and composed by an atheist and a Jew. The orginal lyrics are darker and more political. The church banned it being sung in services because of it's "lack of musical taste” and “total absence of the spirit of religion".

    In the Bleak Midwinter was written by a woman who suffered from depression and hyperthyroidism. The original poem was darker than the carol we sing today.

    In the 1600's carols were banned for nearly two decades because were viewed as sinful.
     
  2. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    He was also a racist .
     
  3. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    I think Christmas was really never Christian in the first place.
     
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  4. Caligula

    Caligula Fapstronaut

    They did. The project never produced a bomb though.
     
  5. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    In the documentary, they talked about that. It was originally a pagan festival but the church made it into being about Jesus birth. It gets me when Christians say Jesus is the reason for the season, history tells us the reason for it is because in western countries there was a period when not much work could be due to the weather being so cold do it would make sense for them to take a break, plus it gets dark early and that can cause people to feel miserable so having a festival will cheer people up. I expect we wouldn't have Christmas if western countries weren't cold and dark during December. Sure Christians can say Jesus became the reason for the season but let's not deny history.

    Here's a clip from the documentary that shows the pagan origins of a carol:
     
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  6. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Is Rasputin was really a mystic or it was some random circumstances?
     
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  7. RicardoL

    RicardoL Fapstronaut

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    ive always loved history myself i choose the wrong career
     
  8. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Sorry for you man.
    You can still love it without being a certified historian tho
     
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  9. Mr.Reaper

    Mr.Reaper Fapstronaut

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    Hi there. Actual russian guy here. So i can answer some of your questions.) Dont say i professional at history, but i certain like it.)
    As for your quastion, its reather unknown was he mystic or not. Thouse myths appear mosly becouse of strange circumstances surounding hes death (by the rumors, he was shot multiple time in the vital organs and still was able to survive a long time and put a fight to those that tries to kill him, so the murderers tied him up with ropes, and drop him to the river. There, under an ice, the corpse were wound wearing fur coat and without ropes), and claims that he somehow were able to heal Nicolas son Aleksey from hemophilia with just "magic". Which is why he become close to the tsars family.
    Its still remain a mystery hot that happend. But overall, people overhype him a little bit. Sure, he was a strange figure, but there was a lots, lots of different reasons behind fall of the Romanov dynasty. He was one of them, but far from being the biggest.
    Also, there is rumors surrounding him sleeping with tsar wife. As far as i known, they were fabricated by bolsheviks to put some dirt on Romanov family.
     
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  10. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks man. I was always wondering if these infos were true, but you know people love to embellish their heroes and to deteriorate their vilains so that why we have so many versions of him. I never really talked to a real Russian so it is a pleasure. As a Russian, how do you feel about the 1917 revolution, was it good for you or you wish it had never happened ?
     
  11. JustAVenezuelan

    JustAVenezuelan Fapstronaut

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    Here in Venezuela we have a man similar to Rasputin:
    Gottfried Knoche was a German Medic what arrived to Venezuela. Nobody why arrived and choose Venezuela. He was famous not by his doctor history, but he created a misterious liquid to convert people in mummies. He was addicted to the human corpse and he convert in mummies many soldiers dead during Federal War (A Civil war in Venezuela between 1859-1863), dogs, civilians, even a Venezuelan president was converted in Mummy by Knoche. He was a big house outside of the City of La Guaira where he had his laboratory, a Mausoleum and where he put mummies like "bodyguards". A Witch like many people said. He pass away at 1901 but before he prepared to be a mummy with the same liquid. The last member of his experiments, a nurse from German descent pass away at 1925 and she was converted in a mummy. The Mausoleum was closed and the keys launched to the caribean sea.
    Until the present, nobody knows the secret of his formula to create mummies without extract the organs. A Strange curiosity, when an Expedition made at 1929 in the ruins of the hacienda, the bodies were discovered outside the mausoleum in all the hacienda, like somebody or the same mummies tried to escape of somebody or something.
    [​IMG]
    Gottfried Knoche. Unknown Data​
     
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  12. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Damn this can make a great horror movie. Gave me chils
     
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  13. JustAVenezuelan

    JustAVenezuelan Fapstronaut

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    And you don't want to see the mummies. The Original mummies are missing since 1925 and nobody knows where are those corpses. Today the area still abandonated but with a model created to imitate mummies.
     
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  14. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    I gonna sleep alone man ah ah ah
    Didn’t know such history existed fr
     
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  15. JustAVenezuelan

    JustAVenezuelan Fapstronaut

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    The story is popular in Venezuela but unknown in the rest of World.
    Now, some images of 1920's expedition in the area with the pictures of original mummies
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Lol the more I’m scared the more you’re adding ... but Dang! Dang ! This is scary and fascinating in the same time ... so these people were killed by the doctor or just died normally ?
     
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  17. Mr.Reaper

    Mr.Reaper Fapstronaut

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    Its a pretty complicated quastion. Mostly becouse its been a centry since that happened and all people who could legit estimate that event is in the grave for a long time. Besides, just like everything that involves history, its pretty complex, and there is no just good or just bad sides.
    Basicly imperial russia was a huge mess when revolution happens, mosly becouse of the social peasant and worker crisis. For explanation, in contrast of the west countries, who long past the bourgeois revolution, emergence of private property and democracy, russia, even tho being strong country, was stuck in peasant-feudal relationship and agroculture type of economies. Just think of it. In the end of 19-begginging of 20 centry, we were only having just the begining of industrialization, where Europian countiries were long past ahead. That beouse of huge role wich nobility cast were having on socity, and becouse most of the population were peasant (around 70%!!!), which have allmost zero education, and were allmost slaves to there feudals (even tho, its strongly dipends on what feudal is ruling, since if feudal is a good leader with good mind, then his peasants were living greatly, if feudal is a tyrant, then you can guess). That, ofcourse, slowed down country significantly. And everyone knowing that, Including the Tsars. But crush and rebuild entire social stucture of a country were not a easy task, wich is why they cannot just do it.
    That was until tsar Alexander II (1855-1881) cames around. He decided that he had enought. So he writes an peasant reform (1861), which free pesants from there social position, but, just like i said, they cannot just do it, so there were a huge thing on that reform. Peasnts were having they freedom, but they had to buy they land and properties form the nobleman who had rights to the property of these lands originaly. The prize on land were ridiculous huge. And normal man were having zero chance to properly pay the prize. In fact, they were paying that price up to 40 years minimum. So really big number of people were force to go, and became a member of newborn social stratum - the workers. Workers were having unmentionable working conditions. 6 days of work in 10 hourse each, no insurances, vacations or anything. Employers were expoiding there workers.
    But aside from the bad things, there were good things. The economy and production of the county have grow significantly. Ruble became one of the most stable currency. Russia became biggest bread exporting county in world. The industialisation finaly started. The next tsar Alexander III were a strong ruler, who was able to hold county whole regardless social problems.
    Then 20 centry and Nikolai II kick in. Anoather two great problems appeared. Which is big starvation. They basicly exported too much bread to the point, when there were no bread on the actual country. Nikolai did nothing to prevent the starvetion. Complatly. And then also WW 1. Nobody were wanting WW 1. Everybody were hopeding to leave WW 1. Everyone basicly talking that Russian soilders were dying for France. Add to this the worker crisis, who just happens to go even worser. Now there were worker strikes in a scale of entire cities.
    Add to that Rasputin scandal. Add to that other horiffic thing that Nikolai did (fusillade on worker srikes, or that case, when on a celebration of his coronations, he inor poeple that prayed for free bread and then, publicly, thanked organizer of the celebretion.) But the absoulte worse thing wich he did, is abdicate the throne after February revolution. Insead of dealing with problems, he just runs away from them, wich put county in the chaos.
    This is were the parties and organisations play they part. They were a long before Nikolai, and they pla a huge role. (for example, Alexander II were killed by the terrorists of the organisation called "Narodnaya Volya" (National will)). There were a ton of different parties at that time, not just Bolsheviks. They were Mensheviks (same as Bolsheviks, but they thing cooperate with libiral bourgeois and were less radical). They were social revolutionary parties (socialists, but struggle for peasants rule, instead of workers rule like Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, were much more radical and extream. Basically the worst parts of War Communism were inherited from them). There were democratical parties as well.
    When Nikolai abdicate the throne, as you may known, the democratical "temporary goverment" were formed. They are, in fact, basic parliament. Dominant parties at them being Social revolutinary party and democratical parties. They were tring there best to hold they power, but the most fatal mistake they make, were refusing to exit WW 1. People were super exhausted and unhappy with long unnessesary war. So when Bolsheviks decided to overtrow tamporary goverment, people suppoted them completly. "Land for the peasants, Factories for the workers". Bolsheviks promised to exit the war by any means, and that give them huge public support which were nessesary. October happens, Bolsheviks won.
    Bolshekiks did what they promised. Lenin was able to exit the war with a huuuge contribution, but they agree). But the hard part began. They were need to return back country from ruins. So they take some ideas from Social revolutioary partie. And began the politic of War Communism. Basically that the politic of equalization of properties, by taking everyting from everyone if its highter then the "nessesary minimum". Commusists started to steling everything from everyone and shooting at thouse who are disagree. Since they were still a lot of noblemans, bourgeois, rich peasants with property, there were a lost who hates that as the resoult. So the Russian Civil War. And bassicly the climax of all that mess. Broather started to kill the broather. Entire families begun to hate each other becouse of the side they appriciate. The entire county were devided by two sides. The White Guard (Democratical parties + monachists), and Red Army. What about thouse who did not take a side? Well good for them. White Guard taking people by law of military service. The red army is saing: "If you is not with us, then you agains us" and shoot you. But at the end, Red army won, and RSFSR (Russian Soviet Federational Socialistical Republic), wich later becoume the center of future USSR. But whats the result? Was all this good or bad? The answer is... unkown. As you see, pre revolutinal russia was a mess, but the ways the red army secure they rulership may be was a nessesary step, but unforgiving. At the end, USSR become glory giant machine of a country wich was a super force of its time. The thing is... even tho communists were cold hearted and cruel, under them normal citizens were living happy (aside from WW 2, wich is anoather mess of a story). Education and sciantific level grows extremly to the point of traveling to space and discavering nuclear energie. Economicly, USSR make a legit miracle by going the entire industializational way in super short amount of time, building so much factories and machines that we, in russian, and other post USSR countries still using as our prime energie sorces. Culturaly, USSR have some of the most notable compositors (Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Sviridov), its poetry being called the "silver age of poetry" after the "golden one" of the 19 centry. But most important. Poeple were living happy, aspecialy in the 60-80. Its unkown how our fate would come, if we remained inperial. If its would be better of worse, no one known. The Revolutinal time was sach a mess, there were no matter who would win, it still would remain a quastinable topic.
     
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  18. JustAVenezuelan

    JustAVenezuelan Fapstronaut

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    they died normally in that period: Smallpox, Cholera, Leprosy, etc. The Doctor since 1845-1900 worked in the hospital but like in that period of our history was very weak because many civil wars, epidemics and rebellions, many bodies never was reclamed and the doctor reclaimed for him and his experiments.
     
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  19. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Well thank you. I read of all of that. Also thank you for clarifying about all the parties that was going on when the revolution occurs. I think the USSR was stable after the Stalin era, even tho American propaganda were trying to destroy it. Like you said, the revolution was a necessary step, cause honestly, if it didn’t happen , the oligarchy would have continued. The leaders of the revolution in the other hand , were questionable.
     
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  20. jk243

    jk243 Fapstronaut

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    Dang that is a pretty scary yet interesting fact. Speaking of Venezuela, do you consider Hugo Chavez as a hero? Or Maduro destroyed his legacy ???
     
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