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Let's stop pretending, even amongst professed Christians, casual sex is an accepted thing.

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Then lacking all sense of the ideal, you become an uneducated ignoramus.... and then egotistically delusional as you become the ideal yourself. Good luck with that.

    This need not be interpreted as a personal attack... rather as a reading on human nature in general.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  2. Runtilmylegsdropoff

    Runtilmylegsdropoff Fapstronaut

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    I'm not the ideal at all, and I found the mercy and grace of God through the Protestants. God bless John Calvin and the other Reformation Fathers. I no longer have to work my way to being justified by God. Jesus did all that for me. You roman catholics don't have that comfort because you don't have the Gospel. Keep working at it! Maybe you'll get to it some day /sarc.
     
  3. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    read edit.

    Calvin is a horror. Who in their right mind would condemn whole multitudes to damnation through no fault of their own? Not to mention.... the futility of any effort of their own. It actually makes a mockery of Protestant practice; you were pre-programmed to believe like some automaton. But of course, this is good for political control. They should have forgotten England and sacked Geneva when they were marching past. Before this pestilent theology swept through Northern Europe.
     
  4. Runtilmylegsdropoff

    Runtilmylegsdropoff Fapstronaut

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    hahaha, wow. You must have completely believed what your roman catholic sources told you of Calvin. That stuff you mentioned isn't Calvinism at all. Calvinism is merely a nickname; it is the Gospel! roman catholicism is a completely cucked religion. I put you guys in the same category as mormons and jehovah's witness; it is literally not much better.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    From a secular source.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism
    We have here the beginning of endless shisms within the Protestant 'church'. I believe Calvin even burnt a few heretics at the stake. Now I can understand the logic of Inquisitors doing this [if not the brutality] in so far as they professed orthodoxy, that is, denied the right of an individual to believe what they wanted. But I can not understand how a Protestant, who stood up for this very right, could deny it to others.
     
  6. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    These are words of a follower of Christ. So for you hundreds of milions of Catholics are cow dung. I assume Catholic Church and conscious Catholic believers are for you a mass of cow dung. Where did you read that people can be so treated? Was it Jesus or Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Tse Tung.... the latter voiced and decided who were respectable citizens and who were enemies of people, Jews ( deserving only contempt).
    If concious Catholics are for you enemies ( and are indeed reading your words) then you should love them because of Jesus who said - ,, love your enemies'' and ,, pray for your enemies''.

    Jesus doesn't say - ,, contempt your enemies''.
    What a Christian are you with your hate speech?
     
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  7. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    I would add - any Catholic who ignores the rules of Catholic Cathechism.

    Yes, each Catholic who knowingly ignores the teaching of the Cathechism becomes a Protestant ( they simply protest and don't agree with this or that, they choose not the teaching, their choose their individual thinking and behaviour).
    So such Catholics are indeed no more Catholics. They only call themselves so.
    I can call myself a tree what doesn't change the reality that I'm human.
     
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  8. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    @Buzz Lightyear - Thank you for your answer. Would it be safe to say that you have a somewhat unique notion of the Catholic church? I think what's hard for me to understand is that your draw to Catholicism is largely based on aesthetics, yet you so consistently and fiercely attack Protestantism as the downfall of the western world. I can only guess that you really take your art very seriously.

    I've found that the views of @Mr Eko seem to be more in line with what I've read and heard. By the way Mr. Eko - I respect your beliefs and I'm glad you stand up for your church.

    I know some older people who grew up Catholic in Europe and they were scared witless as children of the priests. My mother still has a deathly fear of Christianity in general because of the strict morality and threats of hell that she heard from the small town priests, nuns and other Catholics in France. If you say the word sin in front of my mom she visibly flinches. I have an Irish friend who is the same way. For his entire adolescence he thought he was going straight to hell because he masturbated and was too ashamed to confess (that is what the priests told him). Their solution was to leave the church and never look back when they became adults. Certainly there are protestant children with similar stories, I'm not saying this is unique to Catholicism.

    In my experience and understanding - What you say about the moral plane and Protestantism is not at all true. In my brief look into Catholicism I find a much much greater emphasis on following moral rules and respecting the magisterium than in Protestantism. And I'm not talking about my own religion that I made up - I'm talking about that of many major theologians and pastors.

    All protestants (I guess maybe there're some somewhere that nuance this) believe we are saved by faith through the grace of God. Good deeds are the fruit of that faith and our gratefulness to God. In my life this works into a strong desire to do good works, as Christ and the apostles would tell us to do. My life has radically changed in the past few years from being self-centered to others-centered, and it was all without the driving forces of fear, but instead the driving force of faith and thankfulness. I am liberated to do good works, rather than prodded into it.

    This is exactly my experience, although rather than using the word orthodox the way (I assume) you mean it, I am using it to mean my personal binding to God and acceptance of His authority and the authority of the bible.

    As for missing church - surely there is a prescribed method of avoiding the mortal sin of missing mass if you can not get to one, and can not confess to a priest. If this is your only bending of the rules - maybe there's still hope for your immortal soul. :D

    :emoji_v:
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  9. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Maybe I shall just stick to poetry. I was trying to persuade a feminist today of the virtues of 'masculinism'.... half facetiously [I made the mistake of offering an exegesis on a poem]. But how could I press the argument, with the use of sexual imagery, where masculinity looks to 'penetrate' through to another order. This is the essence of art in my opinion, and was the old idea of civilization contra barbarity. I think we are entering a new barbarism.

    __________________

    A Greek Excursion

    They wandered well beyond the city walls.
    To take refuge from the summer heat,
    And told tales both believable and tall,
    ‘Neath a canopy of fresh-minted leaves.

    Their words floated as if on a breeze,
    And to the rhythms of a natural force,
    Stupendous enough to move the seas,
    And constant stars, peppered in their course,

    For conversed they did deep into the night,
    Earth’s shadow had blackened the dome on high,
    Save pin-sized holes of streaming light,
    That told of a burning blaze to blind.

    A world within a world spun rich tapestries,
    And the words whirled hermetically unsealed,
    Had the earth ever seen such creatures as these,
    Or heard such tales of mysteries revealed.

    As the dawning sky was painted afresh,
    Their ingenuity now started to tire.
    They deigned at last to let matters rest,
    Of whether it were made of flux or fire
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  10. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    I would very much have enjoyed witnessing this exchange.
     
  11. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

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    Well, she is someone that has shown an interest in my poetry. The problem is, being intellectually minded, she is more interested in the following explanations and comments I make on the poetry. And I am silly enough to quickly give them.

    ________________

    That sense of being in the world,
    But not of it is her essence,
    A conundrum that makes a day
    An infinity of presents.
    And clamorous on occasions
    For some affinity beyond
    The push and pull of this poor earth,
    Which seems a puddle or a pond.

    ________________


    This is the poem. Eight lines, eight syllables a line. Interpret it how you like.
     
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  12. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    And Catholics say - we are saved by grace of God. Through His grace we have both - faith (hope) and love ( resulting in good deeds).
    So good deeds ( which are necessary to be saved ) don't come from human efforts or will they come from God as His graces. No one can be saved if they do good works which don't come from God as gifts. Even our choice of each act of faith or each good deed are God's graces. The only human deed we can do is to say to God's grace - no and to choose something that is contrary to God's will.
    So nobody can be saved only by good deeds because if good deeds don't come from God ( as His graces) then they are ,,dead,, and can be useful only in this life on the earth.
    If Catholics say that we are saved by faith and good deeds this means only that we are saved only by God's grace ( which is manifested in faith and good deeds).
    So we and Protestants differ only in choice of words and reasoning.
    Catholics say the same and add - if there are no fruit ( good deeds from grace) or not enough fruit ( good deeds from grace) then it's an evidence that there is no faith or too little faith ( so called ,, dead,, faith).
    That's why we have the emphasis on good deeds because they show what is your faith like or maybe only an ilusory fake faith. ( lack of faith ).
    It's the same how Catholics understand it.
    We can do good deeds either from fear ( and this is a minimum, not an ideal cause) the main cause is fear of hell and bad effects of our sins in this life, or we can do good deeds because of Jesus ( an ideal stimulus ).
    Most people start having fear stimulus and if they grow in faith they replace it to the for love of Jesus stimulus.
    But you can mostly see this ,,low,, stimulus because most Catholics live as if they were pagans and faith is only an addition, often not so important.
    Why do Catholics say that without good deeds you can't be saved? ( babies or mentaly ill are other cases)
    It's because if there are no good deeds ( we speak here about the young or adults who are able to do it but they don't) there is no grace in this man and you are saved by faith through grace yet (as Protestants state), aren't you?

    In addition to be clear. There are good deeds according to Catholic theology which can be done without grace of God. For example every atheist can love and help other people. We can do them with the pure power of our will. Doing it we deserve some reward in this life ( we are joyful, other people like and help us too, we earn money for good work..) but the natural good deeds lack grace, are not connected to our life of faith, are done not because of God and salvation, .... so they are not saving and if we only do natural good deeds we can't be saved because no man can save themselves without grace ( help of God). If they could it would mean that people could save themselves without God. So God would be unnecessary and Jesus' life , dead and rising from death would be unnecessary too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  13. Spiff

    Spiff Fapstronaut

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    @Mr Eko - We are generally in agreement on this topic. :emoji_thumbsup:
     
  14. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  15. @SaintDaniel what does the moon landing have to do with morality and the Church?
     
  16. HappyDaysAreHereAgain

    HappyDaysAreHereAgain Fapstronaut

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    There are many things that I really appreciate about Roman Catholicism, like the devotional life and caring for the poor. No other group has given us anything close to a Mother Theresa.
    On the other hand, no other group has abused so many minors. Thankfully child abuse is not a part of their doctrine, but I think it is a direct result of their doctrine and teachings on sex and celibacy.
    After Mary, finding a Catholic saint who had children and raised them in the church takes a real search. Sexual activity seems to end all chances of sainthood.
     
  17. Brae609

    Brae609 Fapstronaut

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    People REALLY sold out for god will wait for their spouse like he tells us to.
     
  18. Brae609

    Brae609 Fapstronaut

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    I believe in the bible it says that homosexuality is an abomination, so i don't know how you could be a christian and justify that, or having sex before marriage, as it tells you not to do.
     
  19. I haven't read the entire thread but it's nice seeing how the subject of debate changed from the first page to the last one.

    Regarding the question the thread poses, I don't consider sex before marriage to be bad (at least not in all cases, even though I'm going to contradict myself in the next paragraph). I haven't found the bible to explicitly prohibit sex before marriage. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the bible doesn't explicitly say sex before marriage is bad (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

    However, I believe the bible does tell us that sex is meant to be between one man and one woman for the rest of their lives. This is important because the rest of their lives part can only be assured by getting married. Once married, a true christian couple will never get divorced, meaning they'll spend the rest of their lives together. The fact is that before marriage, even if you think you'll be together with someone your whole life, that may not be God's will. Once you're married, God doesn't want you to be with anybody else. You can be sure that you made the right choice.

    So in short, I don't think the bible explicitly prohibits sex before marriage, but it's implicit in the rest of the message.

    Regarding the different religions, I don't really care much for religion. I think we'll all meet up in heaven as long as we believe in Christ and repent our sins. I think we'll probably meet some non-believers there as well.
     
  20. Mr Eko

    Mr Eko Fapstronaut

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    The Bible sometimes or often gives only guidelines and the rest must be added ( by church or by our conscience - but what if our conscience is formed badly, a false conscience? ). For example, in the Bible you don't find anything about abortion, sex with tranvestites, masturbation, watching porn, illegal downloading from the net, damaging and poluting inviroment...
    So we mustn't think that if something is not in the Bible it is not a sin or it isn't bad.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017

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