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Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Lostneverland, Mar 24, 2019.
Keep on keeping on...head held high, and thank you for your support
You are strong and will make it.
She is truly happy for you and proud of you and she gives hugs and love back!
Keep up the good work!
I'm proud of you too!
Reading your story I am inspired by your courage and resilience. Way to go! I could take a page out of your book. Trying so hard to be compassionate and putting his needs above my own... I hear that. No more. Thank you for sharing your story. Wishing all the best for you.
Thank you kindly each and every one of you. It’s a hard place to be, as we all know. Your words of encouragement and support mean the world to me.
Well my PA has been off work since April 10,2019. He’s going to 5 meetings a week and seeing his theraphist every week.
Since he has been home he’s been angry, resentful, lying, and basically doing everything a dry drunk would do.
I tell him what I need to feel safe and secure and he does the exact opposite, every single time. There is no empathy or compassion.
I’m getting the same exact excuses I received before his 5 meetings a week. It’s all about him and if I don’t ask questions he doesn’t disclose.
There is absolutely no remorse for his 17 year long history of betraying and lying to me. He just looks at me with a blank stare.
How do I effectively deal with this man/child ? I mean seriously it’s like dealing with a spoilt 8 year old.
What do I do...just completely detach and we live as strangers? Not working together , but on opposite ends of the house.
How long does this non-emotional cold and callous, entitled behaviour last or is permanent?
Is he ever going to realize the emotional damage he’s done? If so what are the signs...cause for the life of me...I don’t know who this person is any longer.
Do I hold him accountable for everything that comes out of his mouth...cause right now I feel I have to follow up and double check everything just to make sure he isn’t lying...which nine times out of ten ...HE IS LYING..
This situation is so frustrating.
This morning he asked what I was thinking about...I said, “well I’m thinking about how we got here? I’m thinking about why I accepted unacceptable behaviour for so long...and I’m thinking about if this is the way I want to spend the rest of my life?” His response was...”oh ya” as detached as good be. Cold, defiant, and distant
What is the best way to deal with this...I’m at a loss. “HELP...PLEASE”
I don't think there's a certain amount of time it lasts. As much as I hate to say it, I believe it will last until he no longer wants it to be that way. If he wants to be angry and resentful about giving up his addiction, then that's how he'll be until he accepts that it is hurting him and your marriage and decides that's more important. I understand how much it hurts when they show no remorse, no empathy, no emotions at all.
I'd say, yes, hold him accountable. Otherwise, he won't get far in recovery, nor will you be able to heal your marriage or yourself. Lies are what protect the addiction and damage the trust. So, without honesty, how can there be progress?
I'm sorry. I know it's hard to figure out the right thing to do. Go with your gut, and stay strong.
Just some thoughts. It isn't easy for a PA to face and come to terms with what they have done. In the thick of it they are able to avoid or be unaware of any harm to themselves or others.
When reality dawns they have to face the deep harm. Equally this may mean panic and relapse. Or a partner getting a load of negative emotions in their direction (projecting on to others)- so the PA can limit looking coldly in the mirror at themselves. I think it's generally acknowledged PAs have a difficulty understanding emotions ( and can lack empathy as a result - equally so do sociopaths and narcissists and the later 2 can't learn or progress).
I had a few weeks of this, and wasn't going to accept it. You hurt me then seem an able to show you're sorry give me defensiveness, demands and negative emotions - the very last last things that would make you feel safe or loved....basically a PA running away from facing reality. For me it got fixed 2 ways - This wasnt what i wanted so i ended the relationship. It took him to view another house - to literally face a future alone and see all the good he was going to lose. Having to face himself then seemed like an easier option to his brain.
Secondly you do have to come together as well as alone as individuals. There is a team "us" . Cuddling someone who hurt you deeply feels mixed - we need to feel connected yet we know they didn't love us as they should - and choose cyber sex with someone else. For the PA they have to face the harm and guilt of hurting a partner and forgive themselves too eventually so being intimate emotionally can feel difficult for them too ( it's probably something they have been scared of for a longtime) . So none of this is an easy fix. We both found the book love you hate the porn useful for working to fix the team "us" bit - I recommend.
I'm sorry we all are in this boat, sending you all good things, keep strong
I honestly don’t know if he isn’t a sociopath/narcissist...or if this is part of the PA thing. Any situation or boundary I put up he just flips it. I don’t trust him at all...with anything.
This is a 17, going on 18 year relationship, I’d like to think it can be salvaged, but my goodness I’m seriously getting too old for this crap. Life is too short. I mean if all he’s going to do at meetings and with his therapist is talk the lingo and talk about how his brother is into porn, respectively , how is he going to get to true real honestly. I understand that this is a process...so what do I do?
Sit back and watch him?
Encourage him and his lies?
Call him on his lies?
I’m confused and baffled...I don’t want to control him. I want him to grow up ...and be the partner he presented (falsely) I guess , throughout our relationship.
This is like walking through thick mud
I have just started my road to recovery.
Married 19 years, I feel its day one in our marriage
I can relate to your SO's journey.
I often feel "lost" on my journey because I question sometimes is this JUST for my family or both.
I continue to try to move forward with my plan and to be the man I want to see in the mirror.
My motivation at the start was to stop the trauma ongoing and to begin to heal the emotional rifts and to become a new husband and wife. I have seen those results in my wifes health begin to improve and to see our communication become more easy and productive.
I still question if its me first or just because in my moments where I am impatient or anxious.
I merely posted to let you know that your posts resonated in me. I recently asked to Lord to begin walking in my life again, He told me he never stopped working I did. Something in your posts spoke to me and I wanted you to know you are not alone. As new as I am I feel unworthy of commenting to you as a supporter but those are feelings I still deal with on my journey. I know 110 percent I will never stop trying to be the husband I want to be, if that's the husband my SO wants, I can hope but not depend on, that is HER journey.
I do not want to advertise as I do not have any idea of how that works here. My wife and I have been listening to a podcast series concerning addiction and betrayal trauma, we listen and then talk about what we liked, hated, or didnt understand and it has helped me to understand her view point as I have to get myself out of my mind and look at how much she relates to the casters.
I will gladly share the link with you if you are interested. Good day to you. May the Lord pour strength, knowledge and understanding into you and your SO
yes it is exactly like mud and walking thru it blind to boot! and life is too short, we have deal with life demands at the same time, if we can!
I can't tell you what to do cause you're not me and my PA isn't yours.
I can only tell you before this relationship, and 4 years single. I had a relationship with a severe S.A. which I was completely unaware of didn't even know sex addiction existed. The first clue was sleeping with with a sex slave apparently out of the blue, and from there I turned detective and arrived at sex addiction. There were days when I literally felt like I was crawling thru mud, and that's after I'd got rid of him. I blamed myself - why didn't I know? well truth is you can't!
Anyway, clearly I wanted to avoid this in future and learn any lessons. I then find out in dec/Jan my new man has it too but on the PA end of the spectrum. I guess picking it up so quick is a result of educating myself the first time round - I try to see that as a positive! And try to see that this thing has exploded in society and while its a shitty boat, we are at least aware of it, many millions are not.
Because of the past my boundaries are pretty fierce. I WON'T have this in my life...it is too short! I chose Love. If my partner wants to chose Porn then I'm not stopping him...but he'll chose it alone and have the rest of his life to stare at pixels. I sound strong...i am strong. But I also know if this happens I will mentally crash, I will have to deal with my own terrible emotions, I am likely to be crawling thru mud some days before I start to recover. But I will recover and I would choose that route always if the alternative is being faced with lies/deceit/addiction/abuse.
I was married to a good man for 20yrs, was I as strong as I am now? no. Was I as strong as I am now 5 years ago ? no. Please believe if nothing else all us SO's can and do grow from this.
BOUNDARIES are vital in life and relationships and to our wellbeing.
My coping mechanism is educating myself...doesnt fix everything but it helps.
If you think he could be sociopathic Google it... my S.A. was My PA isn't. Lies? no never except it! call them out, make them see the consequences of it ....walk away.
Bloomin eck! it's a pile of poo isn't it! Anyway it's a nice day here I'm gonna pull some weeds and find some peace for a few hours...hope you can too.
I'm so glad that you and your SO are on the road to recovery. I admire your strength. You are an inspiration.
TAKETIME....Okay so I don’t know how do quotes lol...but here goes . I have looked up sociopath and narcissist, my mother was diagnosed by proxy as being narcissistic. My PA...that’s where I run into issues...is it the addiction or true behaviour? It’s just so mind numbing..
Yesterday we were low on bread. He knew I was going grocery shopping so he said to me this is all the bread there is. I said okay, good to know. He made sandwiches for himself as he was going to be away from home most of the day. After he left I went to get breakfast..all the milk was gone, all the bread was gone...go figure!!!
Later in the afternoon he called me and then he asked what I had for breakfast. I said two granola bars as there was no milk or bread. He got defensive and said, well I told you that was all the bread we have. I said, no you told me how much bread was left,I didn’t think you would take it all and not think of me. Once again he was angry, defensive and then pulled the victim card. Stating I should have known what he was saying about taking all the bread. Like I’m a freakin mind reader...
That night he had a meeting and told his sponsor about the bread issue. The sponsor told him he was self centred and only thought of himself. This morning he apologized...
I guess this entire situation has made me really take a hard look at myself and what I have tolerated. I am angry at him for not coming forward earlier in our marriage as I knew something was off. I don’t know whether he is sad about the bread issue because he wronged me or because his sponsor told him he was a jerk.
If I give him my approval and acceptance, he turns it against me. Basically I’m a stupid fool for believing in him. Then he sabotages the progress. If I set consequences/boundaries Etc...I’m his mother and he treats me as his mother treated him. I’ve told him we are in this together, I’m not the enemy, but someone who loves him.
Ya, it’s a constant damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation. I’m tired and worn out. There is no soft place to land, to feel safe and loved.
MISTER DIRECTION... THANK YOU for your input . Stay the course and God is with you. You sound very determined and focused . Yes I understand about day one in the marriage. That’s where I am. I look at my PA and wonder who the heck did I marry. Our marriage has been based on lies and deception. It’s all overwhelming.
Alrighty...so I’m extremely frustrated. Just as I thought things were coming together I found out I was being deceived yet again.
My PA is going to 5 SA MEETINGS a week...seeing a therapist (CSAT) weekly, now it’s biweekly. He says he’s been honest with me etc,..however today I decided to check his IPAD.
On May 22, I had left for the night as he said he didn’t love me and didn't know if he wanted the relationship or not. I said well I don’t need to be here then. So off I went. In the morning I received a call from the insurance company stating that he had put insurance on his Harley and truck. We had previously agreed that the bike would stay parked this year and he would focus on the relationship.
So we got through that issue and when I asked if he had any slips etc when I was gone for the night..he said “No...Not at all.”
I said , I’m proud of you. I left it at that.
After that incident we were getting along relatively well. I’m seeing my own CSAT therapist and we discussed a lot of issues in our first meeting. He was great and validating to talk with.
Today for some reason I decided to check my PAs iPad history. Turns out that on May 12-13 he was visiting internet dating sites as well as May 23 and 26. He denied it at first, danced around it and then I asked him about rocketpay...which he said he went on the dating sites it popped up. He also said he went on the sites cause on May 22 when I left he went MIA....from his sponsor, his accountability partners,his therapist and his SA group. Basically he’s been lying since May 12. He says he just denies it happens and forgets about it. I asked him how can he look me in the eye and lie. His response is , “I don’t think about it.”
I’m utterly amazed at how he can so blatantly lie to everyone... Me, his therapist, his sponsor, his accountability partners, his doctor and the entire SA GROUP. My PA has been in SA for just over two months and recently did his first step...which didn’t include the may12-13 or may23 and May 26 dating sites etc...in fact he said he went on those sites cause he heard other members talking about the sites. So basically from May 12 to June 7 he has been carrying his little secret site visits, and acting as if nothing is wrong. No guilt, no remorse,no conscience.
To date that I know of he’s gone on tinder,Zoosk,snapsext,and rocketpay. The history indicates that he has got a secure bill payment on sextext...through rocketpay, I imagine.
Ya this sucks...just as I thought we were moving forward...we have slid backwards right to square one. Funny thing is this last week we have had his daughter and children staying with us, one situation lead to another so I told her of her fathers addiction and together the three of us talked about it and how he’s doing so good in working the program. Another freakin lie.
And he’s so darn good at it.
Sometimes I think he’s waiting for me to kick his ass out. Then he can play the victim...I’m working so hard on my program, she just didn’t give me a chance...oh poor guy.
I’ve told him he has no reason to feel shame or guilt..just as we move forward in healing our relationship, just tell me the truth, ask me for support when you feel a slip coming on , I’m here for you...but nope...he doesn’t.
He says he doesn’t know why...he knows it’s not appropriate to lie or look at those sites, he has support people he can call he’s seen them all weekly for two weeks and hasn’t even mentioned it. How’s he going to get healthy if he doesn’t reach out? Does he want to grow and evolve?
I said today, I feel really sad for him cause he keeps sabotaging himself. He said no need to feel sad. I’m and addict and addicts lie. I said , ya that was said in the movie we watched last night.
This is heartbreaking and frustrating.
So all he had to do was tell me on May 12, that he had a slip or was thinking about going on a site..we could have dealt with it...but nope he went on other sites several more times...like 28 times. In the process , from May 12 to June 7, 2019 he has lied to:
His 5 SA Groups
His accountability partners (2 different men)
Arg.....this is so frustrating and disappointing. I don’t know who he is ... I really don’t. Would the REAL MAN please stand up.
Today I told him, if you like those sites so much I’ll take the blocks off your phone and you can fly at her...I’m not going to stop you..I’m not going to compete with other women. So decide what the heck you want and go for it. He went to bed...classic avoidance...it’s so sad it’s almost comical.
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! That's about the only angle to his behavior that makes sense.
So don't feel sad for him! I would be making plans too. If they can avoid him blaming you in the end, great....but I think you know nothing is going to change at this point.
I would add that 5 SA meetings, multiple APs, etc is a LOT of work. Too much in my mind, but I would think that at least with some of those people he'd be honest. It's not clear why he could not have been honest with them and just not with you though.....in the way I would think the addict/AP and addict/therapist relationship would work (not having one myself)
But, here, it seems like he was just going through as many of the motions as he could without wanting to change.
-hugs- I'm so sorry to hear this
I'm noticing SO MANY guys going through the motions and not being entirely committed to themselves let alone partner. They seem to think they can fly under the radars and make their partner happy all while living the secret (and still addict minded) life.
This isn't the first time I've heard an SO say that they feel or have been told by their partner "you want me to fail" or just looking for us to blow up to do just as @Faceplanter agreed with: to play the victim, get sympathy and come out smelling like a rose.
YOU are so strong and please stay that way. You know I'm here to talk and offer support and I feel ya on frustration.
Smile please? Know you are loved and thought of every single day in wonderful ways....by me and so many others.
The thing is, I relate to the angle. I went in with that angle in mind, at least as a backup. But, and maybe just being naive, I knew that to walk away from a relationship as a "victim" I actually had to do the work, stay away from P and work on other things too. If I didn't do the work to stay, I was no victim.
Going through the motions is just a waste of time.
Well I’ve told him he can do whatever he wants..if he wants dating sites, porn sites, escorts etc...he can have them. I will take the blocks off his phone and IPad and he can live his life as he sees fit. It’s not up to me to tell how to live. However if he wants to live with me then I have to come up with some concrete non-negotiable boundaries...keep in mind he will up the ante on each boundary.
What do you mean by "up the ante?"
I know you love him and he seemed to be making progress but he's truly not getting it yet. If any one of us had your story what advice would you give?
Follow your own advice is the biggest words I can say. And I say that with love, you know that.
You have so much on your plate with everything else and yourself and it's so good seeing you grow as an individual.
If I were in your shoes at this point I'd have to personally and would be at his CSAT once a week and be involved to see his sincerity in healing and not give him room to lie. The more that come together at once in holding him accountable the more cornered he is to not be able to lie.
Cornered animals fight back though so it's a tough spot.
I'd personally also draw out a living arrangement. These are the rules to living with me. Not in a relationship but to exist together and have respect for you and the home.
I'd even have that drawn up at the therapists.
I agree he may have way too much in the way of therapy and meetings, and it may be overwhelming him.
It seems to me he's trying to find his way out and if that's the case you can't stop him or yourself from living and possibly moving on. But he needs to be direct with you in his intentions at this point. Before you even bother to work on any boundaries or anything.
I totally feel you on the "screw it" end of things. If there's no remorse, and his therapist and Csat isn't seeing him have remorse and working towards betterment then this isn't going to improve. They just get sneakier, which isn't news to any of us.
I'm praying for you and him, sending love and hugs