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M with P vs M without P..whats good and whats not..my take ..your take??

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Negan©, Feb 21, 2022.

  1. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

    So there are certain people on these forum trying to preach that M with P is bad but not M without P..that if you do it in a controlled manner you can reap its benefits..i think its all bull and id like to know your opinion..let me build my case..

    1 ) M with or without P is like a drug , ive never neen able to do it in a controlled manner..and i dont think most men can..these forums are filled with posts where men are apologetic and full of guilt for relapsing ..if i've ever been able to control M its by stopping P and M altogether..its like youre either in or youre out ..theres no middle ground..

    2 ) man was given a penis to have sex with it , to procreate with it and take pleasure in doing with it , what it was meant to do..secondly its meant to work according to the stimulation thats provided by the vagina of a woman..it was not meant to work according to the stimulation provided by a hand..and over course one realises that via hand , the penis needs more and more more stimulation , leading to death grip syndrome and other disorders like shrinkage and nerve issues..

    3 ) whilst you are with a woman , how and when you get off or nut depends on how she feels down there , the connection you both have , the environment and many other factors leading to varied results..but whilst youre doing it with your hand the only factors involved are porn and how strong is your grip..both vicious for the poor buddy and your over all health..

    4 ) why have there arisen so many cases of delayed ejaculation or premature ejaculation..my theory is , if a man without any health conditions and such experiences such things , its directly related to the grip strength he displayed over his poor buddy and for how long...there are changes in the level of sensitivity the pensi is able to feel..different penises may react in a varied manner..

    5) another point i'd like to add is people get or give handjobs but theres always an element of whos hand it is..in most cases its a woman's hand , again its much less severe in terms of grip than a mans hand..and would certainly not warrant any ill effects ...if a woman does it its occasional and the factors which decide how and when you get off are not just limited to grip strength like i talked above..its not the same as masturbation..the feminine energy the womans hand adds just another angle to the whole thing..

    6) in the past , when P didnt use to be a big thing , little boys wouldnt be sneaking off with their phones or video players( 90s ) , masturbation was looked down upon by society , it was like a man would only do it when he was not strong enough to control his sexual energy and urges and couldnt find any woman to help him with the same , which would be a kind of an ebarassment..yes i know it was too much in the olden times..but still , it was so much better than now..if you cant get a girl now , you can just set a VR over your eyes and engorge into the virtual world of porn and fantasy , and just jerk away your time , mental , physical , spiritual strength and be host to a plethora of disorders and strange conditions...shaming is better than being subjected to or being able to do this shit..at least it worked as some sort of check on a man..

    Thus i'd like to conclude that masturbation in itself with or without P is a black hole , you can not restrain it , you cant control it , you can only get engulfed in it and subsequently lose yourself in it...one can harness drug consumption with great difficulty and control but not masturbation..you need to be either here or there..either in or out..
    engelman likes this.
  2. jcl1990

    jcl1990 Fapstronaut

    Yes, I would say that M without P is probably 90% as bad as M with P. About 8 years ago I didn't use a computer except for the library and had a regular flip phone, so I had no access to pornography for about 4 months, but I still did MO. I didn't really feel much benefits during that period. However, I do think the total amount of times I did MO was less because I wasn't as motivated to do it without access to porn. Also, my mind wasn't filled with as much images as when I had access to porn. But I didn't feel as inspired or as high energy or as happy like when I get a good streak going of no P and no M.
    engelman likes this.
  3. engelman

    engelman Fapstronaut

    I don't think M is bad "per se". Some animals do M too and nobody taught me how to M as a kid, I learned it by myself (without P), so it is indeed something natural.

    On the other hand, you're right. M could easily lead to more M and PM. I've always Med daily, even up to 6 times per day. Now, however, I have been through several months without M and PMO and ... never had any drawbacks. My longest streaks (6 months) have been always broken by M, not PM, but that's something I don't regret, because it's been always a rational decision I've made.

    When we're trying to get rid of P in our lives, we must always take into account that by doing M, we're putting ourselves at some risk of relapse. The more self-knowledge you have, the more you've worked on "fixing" yourself and the more you've learned about how P works in your brain, the lesser chances you have to get back to the starting point.

    One thing I'm kind of testing this time is trying to M in another completely different way. I've been always too visual, but now, when I do M, I close my eyes and ... instead of doing M quickly, I do it slowly, like a massage. I'm not fantasizing, only relax and feel my touch. I'm also trying not to do M too often.

    The result: 76 days, 4 Ms (the yellow marks in my score), 0 PMs. So for now it's working. I've always enjoyed M, and now that I have left the shame behind, I wouldn't like to fully get rid of M in my life without trying.

    This is not for newbies and/or people who have P in mind and are hypersexualized/overexcited all day long.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2022
  4. Too much of anything is a bad thing. If you are doing it once a day or every other day, that's probably okay. If you're doing it several times a day, that's most likely a problem. It's different for everyone and only you can know how much is too much. However, when you start rationalizing or lying to yourself that only partially failing is okay, then you've missed the mark. It's the same mentality with alcoholics or drug abusers. "Just one hit is okay. Just one drink is okay." It's easy to go right back where you started from when you start thinking like this.
    Negan© likes this.
  5. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

    And its because of this " only one , controlled relapse and other bs " mentality that most people here arent able to get over their addictions..
  6. RecoveringInIsolation

    RecoveringInIsolation Fapstronaut

    Everyone is on a different journey and has a different relationship with P M O and their sex in general. Just because your goals are different to OP doesn't mean yours are right.

    Why ask for peoples take if you're gonna agressively tell them they're wrong and insult them?

    If the goal is a happy and fulfilling life free of addiction to PMO, I'd say OP is far closer to that goal than yourself.
  7. Aod Dhan

    Aod Dhan Fapstronaut

    Yeah, I totally appreciate the enthusiasm, but the truth is that many of us relapse, and when we do, we can't fall into despair, but rather we need to be easy on ourselves IMO, the shame thing just doesn't work.
    There are many opinions on masturbation, and I am learning that ancient Spiritual wisdom has taught that it is healthier to retain the essence and/or be sexually abstinent altogether if pursuing a pure Spiritual life.
    I understand it theoretically but not emotionally, because of my modern fucked up mind.
    These forums need to be a safe place for people to express their struggles without harsh judgment against them, because for some this may be the only outlet they have. So many of us are isolated. We don't live in a perfect world, we live in a very fucked up world actually.
    All that being said, let us exchange opinions with consideration for each other and remember that all of us have varying levels of pain and despair in our lives, what we need the most is to encourage each other on the path to wellness.
    My personal goal is total abstinence, but that is just my personal situation.
    If others feel like they can masturbate and do fine with that, live and let live....
    DatkPassenger likes this.
  8. Negan©

    Negan© Fapstronaut

    You're right man ...i came off too strongly in one of my replies...and i originally just asked for opinion not a debate ..
  9. RecoveringInIsolation

    RecoveringInIsolation Fapstronaut

    It's rare to find someone who has the ability to self reflect on the internet, best of luck in your journey mate!

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