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Make porn illegal

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Bottomofthemap, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. I don't look at porn anymore, I am training to be a massage therapist, and find the imperfect physical appearance of real women and their tactile feel to be categorically superior to porn. I also think that watching another man pleasure a woman is cuck territory.
     
    Paperweight likes this.
  2. Paperweight

    Paperweight Fapstronaut

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    You can stop there, because I'm not advocating for banning anything, just acknowledging that our actions can have predictable, harmful, indirect consequences to broader society.

    That is precisely what I do. At least, insofar as consequences can be predicted to be significantly negative with reasonable confidence.

    I don't care if someone has an apple instead of a pear for lunch today, for example, I consider that an amoral choice because I don't perceive any obvious and significant broader impact of that action. If there were other factors involved, such as a huge apple (changed fruit to avoid triggers) crisis, then morality could come into it.
     
  3. IggyIshness

    IggyIshness Fapstronaut

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    ..porn is a billion dollar Buisness. So most likely it wont go down so easily. Especially with all the conspiracies behind it etc.

    Also good way to "ban" things is to have a proper education.
     
    IR254 likes this.
  4. if you used the prostitution rationale for banning porn, then you could easily apply the same logic to dating and marriages.
     
    Vulkan likes this.
  5. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Makes sense. Sorry I misunderstood you. I think we really agree then, if we're just talking about ethics.
     
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  6. Paperweight

    Paperweight Fapstronaut

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    Fear not, I'll argue with you anyway!

    For instance, in your first post, you claimed:
    Now, I think I see where you are coming from: a non-sentient thing such as alcohol or pornography is neither moral nor immoral, it's people's actions which are subject to morality.

    But would you defend the position that pornography consumption is not immoral? I say it is!

    (I'm using ethics and morality as synonyms, so tell me if there's a difference to you.)

    Your alcohol analogy is a good one. Some important differences between alcohol and pornography:
    • Alcohol consumption (done right) is a social activity used to build community cohesion
    • Alcohol has been customary for thousands of years, hundreds of generations, our societies evolved with it and it is part of our ancient identity, so even if it is bad we should think twice before doing away with it for culture's sake

    I fully acknowledge that there are negative impacts of alcohol consumption on society, and it is my opinion that they are only getting worse. But do I think that alcohol (i.e. it's sale and consumption) is immoral? I'm on the fence, I don't defend nor condemn it strongly, though I don't drink it.

    Pornography is a very different story:
    • It seems to primarily cause one to avoid socialising
    • I don't believe there is a healthy level of pornography use
    • It's not traditional, certainly not in it's current form, nothing like it
    I don't see any significant positives to pornography, unlike with alcohol. Therefore on balance I say it is a scourge to society and hence immoral.
     
  7. Paperweight

    Paperweight Fapstronaut

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    MLMVSS likes this.
  8. A better approach would be to promote personal responsibility and self awareness. The "ban porn" logic leads to "ban everything that anyone is addicted to". I.e. everything.

    Giving governments and legal systems more power is a minefield. Remember, if you let them ban porn then that's a precedent. We here all agree that if there was no porn it would help us, sure. But the government, or some other lobby group, can use that rationale to introduce a ban that you don't agree with. Because we ban things that some group thinks are bad.
     
    sev94 and Vulkan like this.
  9. Paperweight

    Paperweight Fapstronaut

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    Oh yeah @Roady, I'd like to invite you to the "Is pornography immoral?" thread as well. I guess you can see it, but I'd like to hear from you!
     
  10. SaltedPeter

    SaltedPeter Fapstronaut

    First things first :
    Every society from just about the beginning of time has set a moral code and why they may vary greatly this stabilizes society as a hole no matter what corner of the earth it is. What one may find interesting is most cultures do have sexual related moral codes built in, so it would seem that the human it self is born and raised with some degree of moral compass unless they were on a desert island alone from birth.

    Now that said destructive societies in our pasts seemed to have loose moral codes even compared to today and these cultures failed, they also lost allot of unity in their society when sex meant nothing.

    In our social situations today we are working so hard to be politically correct and not force a moral code that we are failing to provide any moral code what so ever, this is my opinion why porn is thriving, not just because of availability but we ourselves do not set any moral codes and the lines get blurred.
     
  11. It’s a free speech issue and will never happen. Those who choose to see this stuff have every right to do so, and you must remember that most adults are not porn addicts. Viewing porn is not a privilege but is a right. Also, restricting the web isn’t possible.
     
  12. Recovering PA

    Recovering PA Fapstronaut

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    The more of us that go through this journey and stop using it the less will be produced and the people in the industry that are being exployted/ trafficked will be less. A life without porn is a much happier existence. I am just learning this through my journey
     
    Bottomofthemap likes this.
  13. What kind of stupid people are here. Trying to advocate porn in a porn recovery site.
     
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  14. IR254

    IR254 Fapstronaut

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    We could start our debate all over again, but it will not lead anywhere. So I will not start it again. But as you see, a lot of people agree with me. Not so many with you. Maybe you should try to expand your horizone a little bit and stop forcing your view on everybody.
     
    sev94 likes this.
  15. Bottomofthemap

    Bottomofthemap Fapstronaut

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    Now now people. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. We are all here because porn has affected our life in a negative way. Let’s be supportive of each other and respect others opinions even if it differs from your own.
     
  16. kio_actualized

    kio_actualized Fapstronaut

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    FYI, there's a difference between morality and legality. Just because I think something is immoral it *doesn't* follows that it should be ilegal.

    People should mind their own business and stop putting their noses in other's lives.

    If I wanted to watch porn and you used physical force against me, without my consent, you'd be committing a aggression against me and for that I'd have the absolute right to defend myself and use force against you. Banning porn is no different from initiating aggression against innocent people and thus is highly anti ethical.
     
  17. What kind of retard advocates to ban porn while they're still addicted. If you fools had your way, we would all be in jail, lol.
     
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  18. Bottomofthemap

    Bottomofthemap Fapstronaut

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    Haha... that made me chuckle funny post except for the retard part.
     
  19. asbgca

    asbgca Fapstronaut

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    I take your point about personal responsibility. It's a great idea that's obviously brought western society enormous benefits. But talk about personal responsibility can easily become wishful thinking. It can overlook people's real needs and vulnerabilities and also the real power disparities that people experience in their lives.

    As someone already said, your view is ignoring the fact that most of us started watching porn as kids and teenagers. We didn't make a responsible adult choice to get hooked, instead we were swept up by something way too powerful for us to resist. You could say our parents should've protected us, but the fact is that most parents weren't at all prepared for the digital invasion that brought porn in its present form. Technology has been changing at such a huge speed that many of the older generation are too clueless or too afraid (or both) to keep pace with it. I'm sure most of us can speak to this from experience.

    This reminded me of Hebrews 12:6: "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives."

    Imposing discipline and having discipline imposed on oneself is not a bad thing. On the contrary, it's a sign of love.

    Repressive regimes and authoritarianism are real problems. But so is a state with too little control. That state is soon taken over by powerful groups from within and becomes authoritarian. This is what's gradually happening in the United States.

    Actually nihilism is a small minority in the history of philosophy. The philosophers we remember are exactly those who overcame nihilism and presented an enduring moral vision: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas, Kant, Hegel, Heidegger, Levinas. Nihilism is a sign of degeneration and sickness in a society. It shows that a people have lost their basic moral strength and are heading for extinction or domination by others. This is what Nietzsche thought. Regrettably, this is likely where the United States is heading. This century will be China's century, as the US declines. A big reason for this (apart from sheer population size) is that China has an enduring moral vision and the US lacks one.

    Boycott is a nice thought, but how will it ever be realized? Pornhub got 28.5 billion visits last year.

    Most of the posts in this thread are ignoring something crucial. Porn (like drugs, cigarettes, fast food, social media, entertainment) is designed to be addictive. These are billion-dollar industries. They hire people with lots of experience and education and pay them good money to figure out how to make their products more addictive so they can sell more. There is a real power struggle going on between the makers of these products and those who consume them. In this struggle consumers are on the losing side for the most part. Just look at all the epidemics going on in the United States: obesity, sex addiction, prescription pills, shootings, credit card debt. There's even a bad posture epidemic because of addiction to digital devices and social media. If you're a consumer these days, you're assaulted from all sides. Unless you arm yourself with knowledge and willpower, you don't stand a chance. We in NoFap are ahead of the game in this respect. But what about all the rest? For each one of your basic needs (food, sex, money, entertainment, relationships, pain relief, anger management) there is someone out there ready to sell you a product that can get you hooked so you keep going back and buying more.

    Governments can be repressive for sure and there are more and more repressive regimes springing up. But at the same time there is an important positive role for democratic government. It should step in and protect people who are on the losing end of a power imbalance. This is the role of regulation. Where the odds are systemically against some people, government should step in and even the playing field. For example, many jurisdictions have laws protecting tenants from arbitrary eviction and employees from arbitrary dismissal. In many places cigarettes are heavily taxed and have warnings and disgusting pictures on them meant to deter. Some countries, like Canada and much of Europe, get this better than others.

    I'm not making this up. Adam Smith, grandfather of capitalism, said it in The Wealth of Nations:
    "The interest of the dealers [referring to stock owners, manufacturers, and merchants], however, in any particular branch of trade or manufacture, is always in some respects different from, and even opposite to, that of the public. To widen the market and to narrow the competition, is always the interest of the dealers."

    People who say that banning porn won't help are probably right. But a ban is not the only way a government can take action. Why not push to regulate porn more heavily? Why don't we have mandatory warnings in every porn video, like we do with cigarettes? Why isn't porn taxed so much that the free content model of PornHub and the rest becomes unprofitable? Porn addiction generates enormous costs, both personal for the people who suffer and public for society as a whole (in terms of depression, lost productivity, healthcare costs, broken marriages, even excessive data usage, etc). Some people are getting very rich off porn. They should pay these costs, not the rest of us. Effective use of government is the only way to make this happen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
    Peace467 and sev94 like this.
  20. Ridley

    Ridley Fapstronaut

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    Calling a bunch of strangers stupid. That's a great way to make friends. It's also a great way to convince others that your conclusion is true.

    Also, I don't think the people who disagree with you are necessarily 'advocating porn'. The following two premises are logically consistent with one another:
    1. It is unhealthy to watch porn
    2. Porn ought to remain legal
    If you can't see why these are two consistent thoughts, then you need to read people's arguments carefully and reflect instead of calling everyone stupid because they came to a different conclusion than you did.
     

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