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Making a Better Marriage

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by mrtumnus, Jul 22, 2019.

  1. Thanks but I'm really not interested. It's not my intention to focus on any more sides of an issue than what I choose. Seeing as it's your journal and you're the OP, it's a bit counter-productive to tell people who you are reacting to your journey, as to "how" they should react. Coming from a completely healthy relationship, I stand 100% by everything I said.
     
  2. MisterDirection

    MisterDirection Fapstronaut

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    Completely healthy relationship...wow

    Troll much do ya?
     
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  3. Firstly, you're not OP and you haven't the first idea what my relationship is like.
    In any case. How about not derailing the thread. That's not very respectful to OP. Nice try at the bait tho.

    Cheers
     
  4. Seems narrow-minded, but suit yourself. Not sure if you've ever taken a debate class, but my understanding is that it's generally good to know about all the sides of an issue you can think of if you want to persuade someone.

    "Completely healthy". Interesting, may I ask if your SO would say the same thing? Please don't take this as a sarcastic cut at you, I'm genuinely interested. If you are both on the same page with this perception (and reality, I guess!), I'm happy for you. However, I would caution you that this does not automatically give you credibility or license to be able to accurately diagnose and/or help people struggling with PA/SA. An analogy to illustrate this might be a fit, healthy person trying to help someone to lose weight. Often people need someone who has been through the mud.

    I do appreciate your thoughts and opinions, and I've heard your main point (be more demanding of my SO). I respectfully disagree that this is not the right course for me. I can't see how I could demand anything more from her after how I've treated her. Even if I had been a shining white-knight of a husband with 0 faults and complete purity of heart and soul, would I still be justified to make "demands" of my SO? I would still say no.

    Maybe your advice would be better taken (here, and generally elsewhere in the forum) if you gave yourself some credibility somehow. E.g., post a bit about yourself (journal), what you've been through, struggles with PMO or not, what makes your relationship work, show a little vulnerability.

    Again, I welcome your and anyone else's comments here. Please don't take this or my previous response to you as trying to 'shut you down' or anything.
     
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  5. Any translation you recommend? I'm assuming you're referring to The Practice of the Presence of God.
    I found this one: https://www.pathsoflove.com/pdf/Practice-of-the-Presence-of-God.pdf

    Already looks great:
    "in order to form a habit of conversing with GOD continually, and referring all we do to Him; we must at first apply to Him with some diligence: but that after a little care we should find His love inwardly excite us to it without any difficulty"​

    "we ought to act with GOD in the greatest simplicity, speaking to Him frankly and plainly, and imploring His assistance in our affairs, just as they happen. That GOD never failed to grant it, as he had often experienced."​
    Thus, Paul's 'pray without ceasing'.
     
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  6. I've successfully defended my PhD more than once. So I think it's safe to say that I know how to have a proper debate. I'm fully aware though of the type of discourse exhibited by people who seek validation and advice from others, but only in the way that they wish. I'm not of the type to buy into that, so let's just get back on topic.

    I don't think you should be more 'demanding' of your SO. Nothing good will come from that. I think that you should be more firm in your own ability to identify and uphold an environment where YOUR needs are more properly met and not just cast aside in favour of your SO's. In many of your posts it seems like you are really trying to pander to your SO's wishes. Both men and women tend to respond very negatively to people who put aside their own self-respect in order to put someone else above themselves. That isn't to say that you can do a lot to show that you are sorry for your past transgressions but it's possible to do that without belittling yourself.

    Ultimately your SO still wants to be able to rely on you as a man to have a high degree of personal stability and not to be a pushover. As for me personally, I would suggest you pay more attention to the advice and not my own personal background. If we looked at the living conditions of everyone who ever opened their mouth and focused primarily on this, we'd get nowhere. Some of the most intelligent people on earth are practically single and a-sexual (Nicola Telsa for one died a virgin). If we look back at some of the greatest philosophers, many of them were mere slaves who never had a relationship. You really should concern yourself less with the so-called 'agenda' of others and pay more attention to what they are saying and to the fact that they are choosing to say anything at all.

    Anyway I'm just saying what I already said.

    No problem mate and good luck on your journey.

    If you're interested in my relationship, check my journal I guess.
     
  7. Any serviceable translation should do. The main thing is to get the content into your brain so it can start to stew.

    And, yes, this is where I first caught a vision for the practical reality of ceaseless prayer. Amazing stuff!
     
  8. Salt & Light

    Salt & Light Fapstronaut

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    Hi, sorry, quick note. I read somewhere ages ago - I'm afraid I cannot quite remember where - it's best to only positive words in matras as the brain doesn't process negative words in the same way as positive - it essentially ignores them as it's so literal. I think it may have been Marissa Peers work on mind therapy and 'self talk' - worth a thought. She's fantastic.
     
  9. I believe that. It should be pretty easy to flip:
    "I've been given much more than sex for my happiness"

    I like that better because it still includes sex as an input for happiness :) More well-rounded I guess.

    Thanks for the input!
     
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  10. Salt & Light

    Salt & Light Fapstronaut

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    You're welcome! Yeah, maybe consider what those other things are and add them as you go along? :) Emotional intimacy, nice worldly things etc etc
     
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  11. Day 59

    Felt crappy last night and this morning. Someone here said something about not being able to handle Thursdays...

    At least I'm aware of it, and I think I'll get through it. I just don't want to lash out and hurt someone. It's definitely less intense of a mood than last week.

    Yesterday was meh. I was again distracted at work, although I did get some progress made on my main project (still gathering requirements & documentation). Had dinner with family and basically went straight to bed after putting the kids down. My cold has moved up into my sinuses and I just wanted to be done with the day. I think there may have been an element of resentment there too, as I didn't really want to talk with my SO. I really need to get over that response to my bad moods.

    Already feel a little better after reading a round a bit here. So much pain and shame over lack of communication and connection. That's really what we're up against, isn't it? Well, if I can learn to communicate and connect better, the rest of it should be cake, right? Slightly sarcastic, but I think there's some truth to it.

    I think I've given up on a formal, daily devotion time. It would require me to get up earlier or stop one of my other routines. I'm not opposed to doing that, but I'm just not convinced of how much it would be beneficial to me, comparatively. Instead, I'm trying to pray casually a bit more. I think that also helped with my mood this morning.

    I feel: On the upswing, energized, industrious
     
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  12. Salt & Light

    Salt & Light Fapstronaut

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    Thursdays huh! Perhaps it's weekend anxiety? You'll get through it, 60 will be a nice number :)
    Well I hope for the sake of you and your family that your cold clears soon.

    Have you heard of the Gottman Institute? He does some interesting work with couples. Might be worth a look or recap if you've already read or watched his videos.
    It's unrelated to addiction - although some authors have cross referenced.
    Do you communicate with yourself much? My BF is unqualified in communication and I know why. His childhood was difficult.
    But one thing I've noticed is he never communicates with himself either. He cannot look in a mirror, hasn't for years and he becomes very uncomfortable when I suggest 'phrasing in the mirror to himself'. Something mantra based such as "I appreciate myself" or "I respect myself" and he certainly will not say "I love myself" in the mirror.
    I wonder if the two are connected?

    Marissa Peer is also great for self help tuition and re-connection - she's revolutionary.

    Yeah, it may be what you're up against, as are we - an addiction takes it tole on a relationship. My BF needs to work on himself, but if our relationship is to survive we must heal that too.

    Slightly personal, just think about these if need be - your wife may be angry with you - both of you may be harboring resentment. That must be resolved. What makes you feel loved by her? Do you feel emotional intimacy during/after sex with your wife? That's normal, men and women experience sex and the need for it differently. Most women need emotional intimacy before sex - it may be worth researching the differences so you can understand each others perspective. This is without the added strain of an addiction.

    Many girls/women, when young are led to believe "All men want is sex" - I've literally heard this myself, as a child. That's some brainwashing right there, from quite an early age!! Add that to "Most men are cheaters" and various other things such as a P epidemic and the outlook is set....

    The majority of men are tarnished and girls grow up with deep rooted insecurities and a fractured view of reality; what men really want and need. It's very sad!
    ...Add a hubby/BF/partner with a P addiction into the mix and it's no surprise a relationship has difficulties - from sexual intimacy to communication.

    Communication is vital, and being good friends - build a friendship - these are the relationships that win.
    I say this all this as I'm considering leaving my BF - I know what our relationship needs, my man just may not be strong enough to rebuild it with me.

    But I'm happy you're gradually making progress!

    p.s, what is 'formal, daily devotion time?' - is that 'self talk' time, mantra?

    Also, perhaps you need a gentle phrase for when you don't wish to talk - from tiredness or bad temper. Something nice. But you can't use the phrase all the time lol people need to talk, try to enjoy it :) S&L
     
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  13. Yes, my SO is a big fan of Gottman. I haven't watched any of their stuff personally, but I'm generally familiar. As you said, might be worth a look.

    I don't really, not sure what I would say. I communicate through prayer more, which sometimes feels like talking to myself, haha. But never any positive self-talk. I can look in a mirror just fine, but giving myself a 'pep-talk' would feel strange.

    I'm not sure if she feels that way. I know she feels apathetic about our relationship right now, which scares the bejeezus out of me. I feel loved primarily through physical touch and words of affirmation. I definitely feel closer after sex, and have difficulty connecting when sex has been out of the picture for a while (like now!).

    I think this is a huge issue for my SO. She was always taught that sex is 'bad', and that you can only have it if your married. She was never told about the positive aspects of it, and how wonderful it can be. Then suddenly when you get married, you have to do it! Just flip the switch!

    I'm referring to a scheduled time of prayer and Bible reading. Meditation, in a religious sense.
     
  14. Day 60

    Woohoo! Two months in. Feels like I'm in a better place; no PMO, but I'm still having nearly the same cyclical struggles with resentment and discontentment.

    Feeling OK today. I stayed up too late last night setting up and playing with a new TV. 4K looks pretty nice. But not really worth losing sleep over. Maybe some day I'll have a counter for self-control. It would constantly be at 0, haha.

    This morning, I had a brief frustrating bit of communication with my SO. It was resolved, but it reminded me of how automatically codependent I often am.

    I'm looking forward to the weekend. I will be on an overnight trip with some friends. There will be fire, meats, and games, so it should be a nice, relaxing time. Hoping it will be a reminder of some of the ways I can and have been happy, apart from sex. I know that turning to other dopamine highs isn't the solution to addiction, but I think it does help to spread it out a little.

    This week has been strange. I only exercised once, and turned off my alarm for two days (intentionally). I feel OK about it. The only routine I was consistent with was journaling. I think I'm OK with that. I still want to exercise 2-3 times a week, but missing a few is OK. Especially if it will mean being more tired.

    I feel: On the up-and-up, but tired
     
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  15. Salt & Light

    Salt & Light Fapstronaut

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    Communication through prayer is great - direct 'self talk' to the brain is also very good. Our brain will believe what we tell it. So when a person says to themselves 'I'm weak, I'm just going to keep failing' - the brain takes the statement straight in. The opposite also applies.
    'I am strong because....etc etc...', 'I respect myself and my wife...etc', This is a great way for you to reach your self and heal. It's valuable, just like going on an over night trip with friends is valuable - it's all part of the recovering the self journey

    I know it can seem a bit juvenile and uncomfortable - but there's growing evidence to support this. I highly recommend 'The Tongue: a Creative Force' by Capps Charles. It's incredible, it really changed my perspective of our spoken word and it's influence over our environment.

    For example - those words of affirmation you need (we all need love), why not try saying them to yourself? You know what you want to hear - so why wait for someone else to say them? Jump in, give it a go for a few weeks - see if the experiment boosts you. Ya never know!

    Anyway, enough about that.

    Does your wife feel apathetic about the relationship or your recovery? There's a difference.
    I know one thing for sure, I would feel fantastic if my BF asked me "How do you currently feel about our relationship/situation? Are you angry?" or "What can I do to make our relationship better/easier for you?"
    I understand apathy, I'm currently going through it. I've been through pain, anger and desperation - now I'm just tired. Tired of waiting, hoping something will change. I hope your wife is alright, it's a tough journey.

    Sometimes, we just need to take more interest in our partner - so they feel loved, considered and appreciated.
    Healthy intimacy! For a couple to have healthy intimacy through sex they must both feel safe and emotionally comfortable with each other. This is needed for the couple to have a healthy sex life. Trust in the other person so you can be vulnerable. Please watch this video, and your wife too. It may also help her understand some of the feelings she's going through, especially if she's not comfortable being intimate sexually.

    Your wife needs time to heal too. Has her attitude towards sex changed since you've been recovering or since D-Day? She may simply not feel comfortable at thus stage in your recovery process.
    You mentioned your wife was taught sex is bad, how did this happen? It's perfectly okay for her to believe in 'sex post marriage' but does she have personal insecurities, fears - if so, maybe she needs some help.

    Men are 'do'ers', you have action based masculine energy - perhaps you need to burn off this sexual tension. Run, workout, punch bag etc. Intimacy through sex is natural, it's a bonding experience - more so for men than women I think.

    Everybody needs intimacy, are you giving your wife the intimacy she needs? And visa versa? (no need to answer)

    Personally I think you should keep us with this 'formal, daily devotion time' and 2-3 times weekly workout - please don't get too comfortable on the recovery - don't drop the ball. Keep up the routine and good work. It's the only way through!
    Consistency re-trains the brain and decreases chances of returning to use of 'old neural pathways' (bad behavior).

    Best of luck! S&L

    TedxTalk
    The New Frontier of Sex and Intimacy

    I hope the link works!
     
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  16. Lots of good stuff here, S&L. Thanks!

    Still rolling the self-talk stuff around in my mind. Not buying it yet, but I suppose I can see how it might be. I just don't think I struggle much with low self-esteem. I probably have the opposite problem - I'm a very prideful person and just want everyone to serve and worship ME. BUT, I think much of my worth is tied up in my SO, so if she does end up leaving me, I can see how I might have esteem issues pop up. So, the takeaway here is that I need to be rooting out and replacing how I view my worth. Which might warrant some self-talk.

    Yep, that's where she's at. Tired of working so hard all the time. She doesn't want to live in fear of me relapsing again for the rest of her life. Based on what she's experienced, my next D-Day will happen in 10 years (each one has lasted longer and longer, all in relapse & lying). So, she just doesn't know what to do and it's all my fault (it is).

    This was and is my intent. The last week and a half have been bad for this. I do not feel comfortable with her and she definitely doesn't with me. So right now I'm struggling with how to do this while she feels that nothing will truly change and we'll be back at square one.

    She doesn't want to be touched by me. I accept this and am trying to be patient. I have no resentment toward her about this.

    Yep! Running is great for this. I like chores as an outlet too.

    Thanks for the encouragement. I was more getting at that I'm OK when I miss here or there, or have a bad week. My non-negotiable consistent routine is journaling. My priority after that is exercise, which is more negotiable based on how well I sleep (got my strength workout in this morning! ;) ). I would like to have my devotion time too. I'll continue to ponder it here and hopefully will come to some way of having something consistent.
     
  17. Day 63

    Mixed-bag weekend. I had a short retreat with some guys, which was good. However, I feel that I didn't take at least one opportunity that I could have had to share my personal and relationship struggles. I don't have a super-deep friendship with any of the guys on the retreat, except maybe for one. But I didn't even broach the broad subject of relationships/marriages, which would have at least made an opportunity for it. This is one of my SO's biggest hangups - I haven't opened up to many people IRL. There are two guys IRL that I've told, one I don't see that often and the other doesn't offer much help (I suspect he struggles with P himself and doesn't want to reveal anything; TBH I suspect this of most guys in the church).

    Yesterday was rough; every time we go to church or are around church friends my SO feels like she has to put on a mask and pretend everything is okay. I've encouraged her to share with some of her friends, but she doesn't want to be pitied or make other wives anxious about their own men by bringing up the subject. I understand, but am also frustrated with the church in general because of this. I go to one of those churches where not much personal sin is ever confessed. Maybe it happens in small groups among a few brothers/sisters. But I don't see it much (except for when my one IRL friend used to go to church - he's the one I mentioned ^^).

    We had a good but tough conversation this morning about the status of our relationship. I heard:
    • She feels used by me
    • I'm doing 'recovery' for myself, with little regard for her and our relationship
    • Why should she want to help rebuild our relationship again?
    • Do I really love her at all? The example she gave was that if we divorced, would I be happy for her to succeed with another man. She would for me.
    • She feels that nothing has changed
    • She's tired of 'faking it' around other people
    • She doesn't want to just give me what I want (normalcy, intimacy)
    During this conversation, I felt particularly stable. I'm not sure that I was really connecting though, as I felt like I was listening in a detached manner. However, I at least did not get angry in response or gaslight.

    I came across @Despicable me 's post advocating Dr. Weiss's Helping Her Heal. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get it. I'm not expecting all of my problems to be solved by this. It's more that it seems worth the cost of a therapy session, and if it helps at least as much as that it should be worth it. And my SO is worth it, dammit!

    Counseling tonight. I'm prepared with some questions/topics this time, so I'm hoping there will be a little more dialog than in previous sessions.

    I feel: heavy but hopeful
     
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  18. Bobske

    Bobske Fapstronaut

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    Wow, that's tough. But extremely well done that didn't get angry or gaslight. Keep it up, find that connection again.
    Good luck
     
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  19. Day 100000b

    Yesterday went well. Work was more on-task than usual, made some progress on my project. I stopped to pick up my son from soccer practice and got to see him play - he has improved much since last year (3rd year playing). Then came home for a quick dinner and some quality conversation.

    Counseling was much better this session. Right off the bat, he asked how I was and brought up a few issues discussed in previous journal entries:
    • Resentment and impatience over SO not wanting to commit to me and move forward
    • How to make myself feel the pain of what I've caused her (remorse)
    • How should I deal with my past failures in light of my church?
    He didn't give me "answers", but we talked around a lot of these. The takeaways, which were not news to me but still good to reaffirm, were that this healing process will require me to be patient and present with my SO. In much of my progress over the last two months, I have considered mostly only myself and my needs, rather than being there for my SO and helping her along her own process. The other main point he made was that there may be other "cancerous cells" in our relationship and in myself that I'll need to scan for and root out.

    I bought the Helping Her Heal digital download and watched (listened to, really) the first half yesterday. Really good stuff. Most of it was not new information, but it was presented very directly and accessibly. It was helpful to hear the analogies of what betrayal causes and the feelings it produces. I'll probably watch it a few times just to get it more ingrained in my mind.

    I also started listening to a really great series - Transitions by Wayne Jacobsen. I've only heard part one, but I'm super excited to listen to the rest. It gets to the core of what Christianity is really about and what many churches/leaders get wrong, or at least lose sight of.

    After counseling, I had some good, intimate conversation with my SO. I apologized to her for making my recovery all about me, and neglecting her and her needs. She was receptive and we left it at that for the night.

    Got a run in this morning. I used to have "bad run" days, but haven't for a while. Maybe I just needed to slow down and go at my own pace. Now that I think about it, my "bad" runs were always with my dad. We are both competitive, so it's probably just that I was pushing myself much harder than I should have.

    I feel: Rested, content, hopeful
     
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  20. Day 65

    Yesterday went well. I made some progress at work, but still more distracted here on the forums than I'd like to be. I'll reiterate my goal to be on here during work only twice - now and at lunchtime.

    I had a good time with the kids last night - we played a matching game that all of them could play with me. Our 2yo was able to remember about 8 cards in a row towards the end! My 6yo and I were cracking up as she picked up piece after piece, after saying "I don't know" to us asking if she remembered where it was.

    I filled my time with activities both productive and relaxing when my SO was out with friends last night. Cleaned up the house, hacked up our alarm clock so that it wouldn't be so loud, then played some BotW on the new TV. She got back and we had some light conversation about our day. She still is unsure of me. I brought up getting a polygraph the other day and ended up looking briefly into it yesterday. She probably didn't take me seriously on it, but I would totally go for it. I would love to be able to prove that we are on the same page. However, this is impossible, as even polygraph accuracy is just not high enough to prove anything. Especially for a liar like I've been.

    Got up this morning (we both appreciated the new alarm clock volume) and got my strength training in. Felt a little blue about my SO leaving without really giving me any affection. But I FREE'd the resentful thought and feel much better now. My SO is particularly busy now. Also, if there's any time in our relationship that I don't deserve her affection or doting, now is the time. Watching the first half of Helping Her Heal was helpful in framing this, as Weiss recommends committing to a year of patience with your SO's healing. I don't expect to have to go without affection for that long, but I should be prepared for and accept it. Or longer, even.

    PT later today. I'm feeling the squeeze of the new schedule. I don't know how I'm going to get all my hours in without staying at work late. It's a season.

    I feel: motivated, content
     
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