marriage in quantum superposition

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by DefendMyHeart, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. MountainInMyWay

    MountainInMyWay Fapstronaut

    Yes!!! Congratulations!! Sorry late to the party, just logged on, but so happy to hear where your research is going! I knew itttt!
    hope4healing and DefendMyHeart like this.
  2. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Thank you! If this actually pans out, it would be beneficial to talk about both aspects; the addiction and the trauma that it can cause in the relationship.

    I'll have to learn to overcome my fear of talking to groups of people first, lol
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  3. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I have a story I have to share because it is just completely weird and I need to get it out.

    For starters: Last August my mother in law came to stay with us. She was here for a few weeks because she was seeing the doctor I go to.

    My mother in law and her 2 sisters came to visit us yesterday. We were talking about all sorts of things, but the subject turned to that of our dogs at some point. We have 5. My mother in law was asking about our little white dog and asked if he was here during the time she was here last year (we said we had him for a year) because she didn't remember him. We didn't get him until April 19th of this year, so he wasn't here when she was here. Right?
    Except, April 19th isn't even here yet.
    Another subject that came up was how one of her sisters wanted to come out here with his mom last August and stay for a month, but neither of them came because of COVID restrictions so they were really disappointed.
    Except... his mom WAS here last August. Right?
    So here we are, 5 grown people, who are apparently convinced that not only was my husbands mom not here during the time she was, but that we also didn't get our little white dog that we've had for nearly a year now, until a few more days into the future. And all of this is making complete sense to all of us.

    Then they leave. My husband and I think about all this for a second and it started to dawn on us that the timeline was messed up on both stories. So we started to think we had the time messed up and that his mom came in 2019 instead of 2020, which would make sense as to why she didn't remember our dog, and also why none of us remember him being here when she was here. I have a photo of our dog from the shelter saved on my phone that my friend sent me the day we got him. April 19th 2020. Okay, that checks out. I scroll his moms Facebook timeline because I know she made posts during her stay here. I find them. August of 2020.
    So we've established that this little dog was here during the same time that my mother in law was here. The problem is, no one remembers him being here. Not me, not my husband, not even my kids.
    He is an annoying little dog too, barks at just about everything. Everytime the front door is opened, he barks. My mother in law frequently took walks so she had to open the door a lot. No one remembers having to correct his barking. We do remember having to correct one of our other dogs, however.
    My mother in law spent a lot of time in our back yard, and there were a few times she accidentally went out there when our dogs were out. She's afraid of dogs. There was never one time any of us remembered having to correct the little dog, but lots of memories of having to correct the bigger ones when they tried to come close to her and get in her space. The little dog is very clingy and needy so he would have been all over her. No one remembers him.
    He also barks like crazy the very second the sun comes up. We had to get up super early so he didn't wake up our daughter. During the time his mom was here, no one got up that early, except for her, which would have made him bark since he didn't know her. None of that happened.
    My husband had to drive all day to pick my mother in law up to bring her here, then drive all day to drop her off. Both times he didn't come back until after midnight, which again, would have set off this little dog into a frenzy. Both times this happened, I was downstairs with our daughter by time he came back, not the least bit concerned about a little dog barking and waking up our sleeping daughter.

    In case anyone may be thinking that maybe he just didn't bark when she was here, or maybe he was scared of her, or whatever.. she has been here several times prior to her August visit and several times after that, and he has barked at her all those times (the prior to her staying visits with him here should have tipped us off that he was here when she was last August, but no).

    Was there a tear in the space-time fabric that sucked this dog in for 2 weeks in August and thats why no one remembers him?
    Did this dog accidently show us he's really an alien and the Men in Black show up to erase our memories of him for those 2 weeks?
    Whats the latest on CERN? Was there another one built in our state during that time? Haha.
    This is so weird, lol.
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  4. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Now that my story is out of the way, I can post a real entry.

    My husband and I were talking this morning about the research I've been reading about P addiction. What has been established is there is significant impairment in the addicts ability to reason and make decisions. This is due to impairments of Executive functioning, emotional intelligence, cognition, and metacognition. It was interesting to read this because I had mentioned to someone not too long ago that it was as though this addiction stunted brain development and so now adult addicts still have the reasoning abilities they acquired during teen years.
    Can this be fixed? Absolutely. People can be taught these skills all through life. What I'm more interested in is how this type of functioning is taught in schools and homes in a child's younger years and if this could be a form of prevention. It could possibly explain why some people are more prone to addictions than others despite having the same or similar experiences in childhood. My sisters for example, are both addicts. We had the same childhood, same parents, same teachings. What differed from myself and my sisters is, I read a lot, I played outside a lot, and I wasn't very social. I think the lack of social is what drove those other two things, but nonetheless, it could be something to consider; that reading and outdoor activities increase skills needed in cognition and EQ as well as work as a prevention towards addiction.
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  5. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

    I believe I’ve read that they do think there is an “ addiction” gene. So perhaps you didn’t inherit that gene in your dna?
  6. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    The D2 receptors in the brain? Or is there something else you're meaning?
  7. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

    Honestly, I have no idea what they were talking about in a technical sense. It was while I was studying the affects of adoption. They believe there is a gene that makes you more likely to become an addict. Since I was more interested in the study of adoption I didn’t pay much attention to it( years and years ago). I just remember it because it I’m adopted and I was afraid I might have inherited the gene because I liked sugar! Lol. Kept me from ever drinking alcohol, smoking, or drugs!! I did not want to b an addict.
  8. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    We may be talking about the same thing. Genetically speaking, those who have fewer D2 receptors in the brain are more prone to addiction than those who have more. I believe for smoking, it makes you 60 percent more likely to smoke based on genetics alone, but environmental factors also play a part. My parents were smokers, my dad was an alcoholic and a SA, my mom was addicted to weed and whatever it was laced with to get a better high.
    My sisters are both alcoholics and recreational drug users. They always blame my dad for their choices so there's the environmental factor lol.
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  9. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Made a trip to the doctors last week and he ordered some lab tests. Turns out I'm protein deficient, which explains a lot of what I've been experiencing. I had to give up my workouts because it was causing more leg and ankle swelling, not to mention as time went on, it was becoming harder to exercise rather than easier. The cause is low stomach acid, which can be brought on by several factors, the number one being stress. My body, being unable to digest the food I was eating to get the protein from it, was pulling it from my bones instead, hence the swelling and the difficuly exercising as time went on.
    Since my doctor has been super busy with the clinic, taking on his dads patients after he passed away, I decided to look up how to treat myself naturally. I have supplements on the way that are supposed to help increase digestive enzymes, and it was also recommended that I drink 2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar before meals (diluted of course, dont drink that straight). I tried it last night and my body seems to be functioning a little better this morning as a result. It is interesting how one little thing in the body can have such a huge impact on all the functions.
    I wanted to mention this because us SO's endure a lot of stress while dealing with our partners addictions and it is really important to take care of ourselves. I would encourage looking up symptoms and getting tested just to be sure if you experience them. Long term complications can be pretty severe so better safe than sorry.

    My husband continues to make progress with recovery, but is still generally lacking in the empathy department. I know he is going through a lot, and it appears as though when he is really struggling, he cares little about others and more about how he can make himself better (still working on coping mechanisms that don't include taking anger out on anyone). He is learning to leave the area when he feels too mad, which is good, but then he finds himself in the addictive behavior mindset. Since he is alone by this time, it is not a good combination.

    My son visited us a few days ago. They were allowed back into their apartment to collect what wasn't damaged by fire or by water. My son found his girlfriends headphones and in an attempt to pull them out of the clutter, realized his dead cats paw was stuck to them. He was certain his cats made it out and had been looking for them ever since the fire. To see his cat crushed under the debris from the roof collapsing was more than he could bear so he headed straight over here right after that. What a horrible, traumatizing experience for anyone to go through. He was in better spirits when he left though, which was good.
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  10. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I wonder sometimes..

    A few weeks ago I mentioned to my husband that my daughters ABA therapist seemed to use the bathroom a lot. I mean, A LOT. Not that it is an issue in itself, but it just seemed odd. One of the times I walked in there after her, there was the distinct scent of weed. I know that smell well, considering how I grew up around it. Just the exposure causes heart palpitations. Well, my doubt on whether or not it was that was confirmed by my heart palpitations. I figured if she was using that, it was probably through a pen, which could indicate medicinal. I didn't think much about it afterwards.

    What I did notice though, was how my husbands bathroom needs significantly increased shortly after me telling him that. I have been observing it over these last few weeks and he goes in there right after she comes out, almost every single time. There are times that he goes in there before she does, and it is directly before. Then she comes out and shortly after, he goes in again. I hear the door opening and closing over and over again for what seems like a hundred times during her time here. After she leaves, his needs significantly decrease yet again. Today, however, when she went in there, he dropped everything he was doing and ran down there and almost walked in on her. He came back upstairs and I asked if he actually walked in there because I heard the door, and he said he didn't, then went back to doing what he was previously doing.
    What was odd about it was how he responded directly before, then directly after. I then started to think more about it and realized that although I can hear the bathroom door, I can't see it. Then I started to wonder if what appears to sound like the frequent trips to the bathroom are actually him and her going in there together. This was actually a bit triggering. Since he spends a great deal of time in the bedroom while she's here, behind another door I can hear but can't see, it would be entirely possible for them to be doing something like that and I wouldn't know it.
    So, I confront him a bit. Him and I cant talk too much about it considering how our daughter is clung to him at the moment. He said that once he realized she was in there, he stopped and came back upstairs, but of course my mind begins to wonder if he actually stopped for that reason, or because he realized I was right there and could see him.
    I suppose it has been awhile since I've had any sort of reaction to anything he's caused. It was bound to happen eventually.
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  11. Tarsus

    Tarsus Fapstronaut

    I don't really know all that much about infidelity, assuming that's what you're wondering about, or perhaps a shared habit in weed? The latter would make...a little more sense. If it were the former, I wonder - what are the chances a man in recovery would be so brazenly unfaithful while his wife is in the same house? Seems quite strange, but if the other possibility is a shared recreational drug habit between your husband and the ABA therapist, then I would think the smell would not be confined to just the bathroom and would be noticeable on your husband.

    I'm not discounting your hypotheses, but there's possibility A and possibility B, and when dealing with the unknown I tend to shy away from binary possibilities and try to consider the other letters. The behavior is odd, no doubt. Seems to me a more direct conversation would help clear things up - one that isn't so much confrontational, but one in which you convey your observations and allow him to provide an explanation which would be a C or D. Since you know him best, you would have to determine if there was gaslighting or deception in his explanations, but regardless, at least the suspicions would be out in the open, and you may even be able to rule out some of the more horrible possibilities.

    On a side note, if your ABA therapist is using weed in your home, for medicinal purposes or otherwise, I would consider that a more serious issue. I'm not sure of the protocol, but for me it would seem as if it were for medicinal purposes, she would inform you of what she was doing. I can't see how, as a parent, I would be comfortable with a therapist dealing with my children while under the influence of mood altering drugs. I'm happy to consider alternative points of view on this one, but this seems even more strange than your husband's odd behavior.
  12. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I know. It all sounds so stupid when I really think about it, then I feel even more stupid for suspecting an affair when there is clearly no time for them to do anything like that from the time the door closes until it opens again. I know my husband well enough that I know how much time he would take should that actually be happening.

    I did also consider the weed thing, and best I could think of is that he was trying to see if he could "catch a whiff" of it and that would explain the going in there right after she comes out.

    The third thing that crossed my mind was that he was trying to "accidently on purpose" walk in on her to see something, or he was hoping she would walk in on him.

    I've not talked to him much about it other than telling him that it triggered me a bit when he almost walked in on her when she was in the bathroom. So when I said earlier that I confronted him, I suppose that wasn't the correct word to use. I do plan to talk to him more about it later today. I wanted to avoid the conversation yesterday since it was Wednesday and he was already working on not being angry when we go in public.
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  13. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    One thing I find interesting about P addiction is how it isnt treated like other addictions. For example, if someone who was addicted to cocaine wanted to quit, it would make sense to stop going into the environment where cocaine was used, get rid of anything associated with cocaine, change friends if necessary, etc. The cocaine addict would give up a lot in order to remain clean, just as anyone who suffered from substance addiction would do. However, when it comes to P addiction, what is given up to accomplish recovery? Yes, it can be difficult to go without internet, smartphones, television, or whatever else was used for it, but it isnt impossible.
    My husband has decided to go "monk mode" where he basically gives up almost everything. He has time limits for internet access and where he goes on the internet is also restricted to this site. He is set on eliminating junk food, videos, and increasing activities in other areas such as tending to the yard or cleaning the house. Yesterday was his first day. It didn't go so well. There are withdrawal symptoms that come from internet addiction, and our daughter was miserable unless he carried her, which he did for about 4 hours total. We were talking about it and what is most difficult is now he no longer has an escape to rely on. He must now face his own emotions and reactions to real life situations. My daughter has apparently decided to put him through an extreme initiation process while he is adjusting to this new life style.
    The thing about it is, he has learned on his own what he can't handle. Since the beginning of recovery, I only put a few boundaries on him, such as switching from a smartphone to a flip phone (we both switched). I didn't enforce blockers or trackers on his tablet or computer, but made it clear that a relapse meant this marriage was done. The rest was up to him. I let him know when something seemed to be "too much" such as him watching sports instead of helping me around the house, or indiscriminately searching the web for things, but I also made it clear to him that I was not going to tell him what to do or what not to do because he is a grown up and capable of making decisions for himself. Yes, it has created some problems between us, and yes he has done things that have hurt me. However, he has made progress on making decisions based on others, not just himself, which is improvement on his end (remember he is also narcissistic, so our approach is not a one size fits all one).
    Our child has decided to continue his initiations into the real world today but waking up screaming at 630 this morning. It has continued since. So far he has been handling it okay. It makes it even more difficult when one of the sources of her screaming comes from him paying any attention to me (through talking mostly) so that is bound to wear on even the most patient after some time.
  14. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

    I think the difference is that sexuality is natural. There is no amount of cocaine that is healthy. And no one would argue that a certain level of cocaine is necessary for a balanced and healthy relationship/life.

    However when it comes to sex - it's different. Going full monk and removing sexuality/attraction/etc 100% is unhealthy. Yes, removing technology time and such is good, but that's different than removing the actual addiction of sexual stimulation and such.

    It's a discussion I've had with my therapist and in SAA a bunch - what is healthy sexuality. Is a bit of lust healthy - is it ok to notice attractive women in public - how should I react compared to how I did before - and how does sexuality and the desire to be desired feed into self worth and other emotions.
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  15. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    You'll have to elaborate on this further, as far as being 100 percent unhealthy. There are many people who do this their whole lives and are healthy in every aspect.
    How we look at sex, lust, etc is within the context of what we are taught. There are humans all over the world who share different views on what is okay and what isn't. There are people through evolution that also shared different views on what was okay and what wasn't. All in all, I think we both agree that P is unnatural, correct?
    I dont think it is natural to lust after others. I think this has been normalized. For instance, if you were to ask a woman who was deemed attractive by western standards how she felt about men looking at her in a lustful way all the time, I dont think she would be very appreciative of it. As a matter of fact, she may come to resent not only the men, but eventually herself. How will she ever know the full capacity of her capabilities if at every turn, every opportunity she's had in life was based on how she looked? Do you feel as though that is unhealthy? To a man, he is just lusting at this one woman for a moment. But for that woman, she is receiving that from many different men, every single day.

    If you were to remove all roles of gender, sexuality, arbitrary standards of beauty, and stereotypes, what would you be left with? Would the need to feel desired sexuallly even exist anymore? Would it still impact a person's self worth if they never had a sexual relationship with anyone in their entire lives? Most likely it wouldn't. They would feel validated based on their abilities instead. If one were to occupy this space, then they would be able to see what they are truly capable of as an individual, and be able to live life to its fullest capacity. If everything is based on sex and worth that comes with it, then the capacity for life becomes very limited and "happiness" becomes based on that alone. If one feels they are lacking in this aspect, which it seems most people do, then they are unhappy regardless of any other abilities they may possess.
    When you were a kid, your biology didn't matter. You did things based on your abilities and were eager to learn. Most importantly, you were happy because there were no arbitrary standards of beauty and sexuality that mattered. It is when those come into place that unhappiness happens. Then it is, "I'm not good enough because my body is this way instead of that way" "I'm not worthy enough because I look this way and not that way" "I'll never look like that person so I will never be happy". All of this is based on how you look and how everyone else looks. If that is all dissolved, then that is where an individual would find true happiness in themselves, and in life. That, in my opinion, is healthy.
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  16. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

    You've done more research than me. I just know my therapist thinks going to a full 100% extreme and attempting to 100% remove sexuality from one's life is unhealthy. I tend to agree. Can some people do it, sure. But for most people it's setting themselves up to fail and going against basic nature to have sexual thoughts. Of course, just my opinion and what I'be been told.

    I think P is unhealthy for me and I'm unable to moderate, control, limit, or avoid compulsive usage. It is no way healthy for me. As for saying if it's natural or not, I don't have an answer for that.

    As for lust - I lust after my wife. I think she's beautiful and there are times I cannot get thoughts of her body or my sexual attraction to her out of my head. Sometimes this is for a minute and sometimes a bit longer. It always passes eventually. I think that's natural.

    I also think noticing attractive people around us is natural. However, lusting after them, which I consider to be different, be it people at the gym or grocery store or TV, is unhealthy from both points of view.

    This is a much bigger philosophical question I can't answer with any veracity or conviction. I don't think "everything is based on sex and worth that comes from it". I think that's wrong and it's something I've been working with my therapist on. Finding fufillment from within. I also think sexuality and attraction are normal, healthy things that are biologically programmed into us, just like rabbits or birds or whatnot. Healthy sexuality is a thing, and when I try and answer what it is, it's in the middle of where I was 300 days ago and a monk trying to repress every sexual thought.
  17. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I think there is confusion about what I'm talking about and what you're talking about. The brain cannot subtract or divide anything, it only adds and multiples things. So trying to suppress or repress anything is unnatural and unhealthy, as it just creates a bigger problem than what was initially there to begin with.
    Redirection is healthy, but can be uncomfortable until one is able to reprogram their heuristics and schemas. If you notice a person and automatically label them as attractive, that is your heuristic. If you continue to fantasize about them, or lust after them, then that is your schema. Heuristics and schemas are programmed based on what is seen and what is taught. It is entirely possible to change both because of Neuroplasticity. It is how one who was racist or sexist could change their automatic thought processes.
    So my husband is working on changing his automatic thoughts and reactions by actively working to change his schemas and heuristics of women to something other than what was programmed. He isn't suppressing or repressing anything.
    From a scientific standpoint, it is 100 percent unnatural. The reason being is takes 10-15 thousand years to adapt to something, and the change is gradual not extreme. That is why species die off in mass extinction cases when environments change too rapidly. If the change is gradual, they eventually adapt over generations. P has not been around that long. It causes structural changes in the brain that are difficult to undo. It takes away dopamine from other activities as well, which makes it very similar to that of substance addictions. The long term effects of chronic p usage is still unknown considering how this topic is barely being researched over the years. However, I've seen articles that have correlated extensive dopamine in early years to dementia, alzheimer's, and schizophrenia (to name the most extreme cases) later in life. Ive even seen reports about male fertility declining over the last 20 years and men being diagnosed with dementia in their 30s and 40s rather than later in life as it was before.

    Sexuality is biologically programmed into us, that is true. Humans however, have the largest prefrontal cortex of all other species. What this means is unlike animals, we have the ability to take control of our biological drives created by the older, primitive brain. This is why yogis and monks can live their entire lives without so much as a thought regarding sexual pleasure. They have more activity in, and a thicker prefrontal cortex than the average person. They have "freed themselves" from the primitive brain in a sense. Scientifically speaking, every human has the ability to do this.
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  18. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut


    I understand all of your points - and I know from reading your journal you've done a lot more scientific research into the topics. I can't speak with any knowledge to most of your points.

    The only thing I'll say is your last point about yogis and monks being "freed" from their primitive brain and sexuality in general. Yes, they say they've done that and good for them. According to my CSAT, my sponsor, and myself, it's not something that I'd find healthy or something I'd even like to attempt. I also can't imagine my wife would like me to remove sexuality from my life either, I know I wouldn't enjoy it if she attempted to. However this is something that every person has to decide for themselves, there is no one answer for what healthy sexuality is, what I may find healthy and balanaced, someone else may find too much or too little.
  19. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I agree that it isnt for everyone. However, it does take away weight from the "healthy, unhealthy" words when it comes to sexuality. It instead comes down to what a person wants and feels they need in their lives, and in their relationships. My husband doing monk mode like he is isnt unhealthy for our relationship. If he ended up "freeing" himself from that aspect, then I would be okay with it because I know it would mean happiness for him since he is so plagued by his thoughts.
  20. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    A few years ago, while attending one of my psychology classes, the instructor decided to perform a small experiment on us. She wrote two names on the board, Vladimir and Benjamin, and asked us to write down thoughts that came to mind about each name without giving much thought to it. She then went around the room and asked everyone to say what they wrote down. With the exception of myself, the entire class described Vladimir as cold, uncaring, and distant whereas Benjamin was described as warm, caring, and a good listener. When she got to me, my description of Vladimir was, it started with Vl which was kind of cool and it sounded foreign since you don't hear that name here too often. Benjamin was described by me as being a common for those with that name to go by Ben. The instructor looked at me like I lost my mind.
    She then put up two pictures of women, one with her hair done and makeup on and the other with her hair down and no makeup. She asked us which one seemed more trustworthy, more personable, etc. When she came to me, I told her it was the same woman in both pictures and I couldn't tell if she had any of those attributes considering how I've never met her. After that, she excluded me from the experiment.
    The point of the experiment was to identify heuristics everyone has. Since I didn't provide the answers that everyone else did, my instructor felt as though I wasn't normal. I asked her what constituted as normal, and who was it that decided that the automatic judgment of someone was normal? Also, how do we know these judgements are from actual experiences and not from something that was taught and that is why it continues. I then went on to tell her how I felt bad for anyone named Vladimir because that means he would have a difficult time in social situations if everyone avoided him because they automatically thought he was cold and uncaring just because of his name. None of my questions were answered, she just stated that was how things were and how people thought. She also said that it was impossible for people to change once they assign judgment to someone.
    A few months later she gives a lecture over how negative heuristics and schemas could be changed from racist or sexist views to more healthy views. I asked her if she felt it was possible to also change how people judged names like they do without ever knowing the person. She told me to wait until after class to talk to her about it one on one because she didn't want to influence the rest of the class. I never stayed after to talk to her.

    I suppose the point I'm making isn't regarding the lesson or the experiment, but more about the contradiction. How is it possible to change the schema and heuristics for one thing but not the other? If one can be changed, certainly the other would be no problem. And if that is the case, why aren't we allowing for that change rather than just accepting the way it is as "normal"?
    So what is normal human behavior and thinking? No one really knows for sure. What is out there is what has been normalized, accepted, then taught to continue the cycle of "normalcy".

    I read a few articles yesterday about 2 tribes where masturbation was not practiced and unheard of. There wasn't even a word to describe it in their language. When the anthropologists tried to explain to these people what masturbation was, they saw no point in the practice since the purpose of sex was reproduction, not self pleasure. They didn't frown on the idea, and it was documented that if people practiced masturbation that it wouldn't be judged and they wouldn't look down on people who did it. They just didn't see what the point of it was since it didn't result in children.
    I think about this article when it comes to what is normalized. Is masturbation healthy for you? Of all the studies I've read about it, they didn't screen for a lot of factors that would also point to the reduction of stress, prostate cancer, or any of the other benefits they claim in the study. There was nothing about diet, exercise (or lack there of), p-use, depression, anxiety, ADHD, autism, family history, and the list goes on and on. And since you can't make casual claims with correlational research, all these studies can safely say is that there is a relationship between masturbation and "whatever factor they measured" but one does not cause the other or vice versa. They can't make assertions in correlation research. When you have 2nd or 3rd party sources of interpretation of studies, that is essentially that individuals OPINIONS about the study. And that is really no different than this
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
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