marriage in quantum superposition

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by DefendMyHeart, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Some are old, some are new. There are things he will disclose to me that he can't get himself out of. I dont blame him for the dream, I'm fully aware that it is beyond his control. It is the betrayal trauma that causes the reaction to anger. I'm waiting for him to tell me more, which puts me in an angry defensive state of mind. After working through my anger, we were able to get to the bottom of these reoccurring dreams which has to do with some past trauma he experienced. He came to me about the dream because he understands there is a reason they continue. As far as randomly noticing a woman, yes, he would disclose that to me as well, but he would do so to tell me about his progress with his reactions after noticing the woman.
    Going forward, he has an accountability partner now. The only time he should disclose something to me is after telling the accountability partner and still having trouble getting out of it. Otherwise, he need only tell me about relapses, deliberate actions, or if I ask him about something and he lies about it, he needs to make that right as well.
  2. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

    I thin the new plan is better. Telling you about every woman he notices or dream he has and expecting you to help him "get out of it" won't help you long term - or him. You need support, not just him, and him telling you triggering things to help himself was never sustainable.

    I told my wife that I lied to my therapist about something (and corrected myself via email as soon as I got home). I didn't tell her because I lied, I told her because the anxiety over lying put me in a grouchy mood and meant I was shortwith her and the kids and she deserved to know why. But I told her I'd rather not go into details about what I lied about, and while she was curious, she agreed.

    I've told her when I've had especially hard days - and I'm lucky I have not had to disclose anything new. If I'm going to disclose anything old, it would probably be a formal thing with therapists and done in a safe way. I tell her when my reading makes me think about something, my relationship with my parents or god or sex in general. I wish she asked how I was doing more often, but I have SAA and therapy for that.
  3. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    He would tell me all this stuff because he had to for years. It was just me and him. We were unaware of these forums and other resources until August of this year. When he disclosed the new stuff to me a few nights ago, my first thought was, "why is he telling me this and not his accountability partner? He has to know this is going to put me in a rage and the last thing I will be able to think about doing, is helping him". It was a habit to tell me. He got stuck and couldn't get out of his head. I did end up helping him later as much as I could. But yea, working on my trauma is something I need to do.
    What he discloses to his AP is what he would disclose to me. He knows well enough now what needs to come out to help himself. There are exceptions to the "looking at other women" rule and my husband falls into that category. This is why this had to be disclosed.
    She probably wants to ask you but is afraid to. She may be afraid of your reaction, or she may be worried you'll tell her something she doesn't want to hear. But I'm sure she does wonder. I feel it would be good to let her know how you're doing so she is on the same page as you, as I feel this would also help with communication and trust. I dont mean tell her details by any means. Just, I'm this far ahead in my recovery, type stuff.
    I ask my husband how he is doing. He tells me what he feels and we work on it. It could just be depression, restlessness, etc. I feel these open lines help our relationship, and he sees me more as a source of comfort that can help him rather than someone to be avoided so he can take on things by himself, if that makes sense? He doesn't have secure attachments to any women in his life. Building on this aspect would be helpful to his recovery
  4. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut


    I'm glad you have a new system that seems healthier for you.

    I do tell my wife how I'm doing. I try not to make it a big deal - but I tell her about my therapy sessions and if a workbook or podcast brings up an idea. I want to let you know that I'm not slacking and that ideas are going through and that I'm owning this on my end, but at the same time I want to make sure I'm not just dumping on her and being completely me-centered.

    Just being not defensive when we talk about why I did or didn't do something. Being more pateint with her and the kids. Staying off my phone (this is a big trigger for her, when I'm too into my phone and don't listen. I've cut total phone time down SIGNIFICANTLY). Not being defensive when it comes to my parents, etc. Being honest when I'm in a crappy mood or feeling bad. I think she expects me to bring it up instead of trying to hide it - it's hard for me because it always feels like a giant conversation when in reality it's not. It's progress.
  5. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I'm glad you are able to talk to your wife. I do understand the need to want her to ask how you're doing more often (connection) and the reluctance to actually want to tell her anything (fear of being put in a position where you feel your actions may need to be justified). It is a struggle I'm sure. The wanting to be close but feeling as though this addiction has created a wedge that you want to go around, not through, to be close to her.

    The not being defensive thing is huge. My husband still struggles with this. If we remember an event differently, even though it isnt a triggering event or anything, he automatically gets defensive and will lash out at me to tell me I'm wrong with how I remember it and he is right. The thing is, memory is malleable, so technically speaking, neither of us will remember the event as it actually happened, only as we perceived it to happen. My husband will avoid conversations with me with the fear of it turning into a long conversation. There are a lot of times he will bring something up, I will respond with a short answer, and it is him that turns it into a long conversation, then he will blame me for doing it. It is a cycle, and I believe, part of the healing. Always having to justify things you do can take its toll after awhile.
    MountainInMyWay likes this.
  6. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I saw my therapist yesterday and something interesting came up. She told me that if she were to give me 1000 dollars to go spend the day to myself that I probably wouldn't know what to do. She was right because the minute she mentioned it, my mind automatically went to "if I had that money, I could pay bills, buy groceries, then put the rest back to get through these hard times". Not one thought of doing anything that was specifically for myself came to mind.

    A huge part of my marriage has been dedicated to my husbands addiction. From how we live to what we talk about, it has been centered around him. Letting go of this aspect causes me to feel a bit lost. My therapist says that this is because this is all I've known to do for so long that I don't know how to do anything else anymore. I tried to remember what my husband and I used to talk about prior to D-day and I could not remember what it was. I asked him and he couldn't either. What I do remember is that we used to talk about a lot, and we never ran out of things to talk about. The content of those conversations alludes me.

    Letting go of being the sole person to help my husband is something I will have to learn how to do. It is weird to even say that. My whole life has been about trauma and, although I've dealt with much of my past trauma, there is still residual stuff that continues to this day. Our D-day was during the time I was still grieving for the loss of my mom. This pain is something I've turned away to face my husbands addiction. I can see it just below the surface, waiting to be confronted and healed. Just writing it down has caused my eyes to become blurry with tears.
    Tarsus likes this.
  7. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

    I struggle with not being defensive too. A lot. Much less no than 6 months ago - but it's still a struggle.

    The long conversation thing I relate to as well. When I was found out (and when I was found out previously) there would be marathon talks late into the night. They wouldn't start til we were laying in bed at 930 or whatever and then they'd go til 1am. I'd end the night confused, exhausted, and she'd end it crying. Now they're shorter. Even the long ones are 30-45 minutes and we can talk about needing to end it as we're going in circles or find an end point. It's a big deal to me because I HATED those 3 hour talks - they reminded me of being lectured by my parents and being told how disappointed they were in me for being caught lying or whatever I did when I was young.
  8. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    This is where you and probably most guys can relate to each other. My husband told me he was tired of my lectures. He used to get lectured by his uncles, father, etc. And that is what I reminded him of. This is why he still gets defensive. Our talks would last 4 hours, but they would lead to his childhood and how that played a role in his actions. This part he also didn't like because he was raised to believe his family was the best of the best and saw it as me attacking his family. It took a long time for him to realize that I was not attacking them, and that I was helping, not lecturing him. It took him seeing his old therapist for it to start to sink in. "Why doesn't he ask me about this or that? He just tells me everything is fine and normal" That is because your therapist isn't addressing any underlying issues because he doesn't see P addition as a real addiction. He finally understood this and it was through that understanding that led him to find a different therapist. Of course, his new one doesn't see it as a real addiction either, despite him telling me he did, and even suggested my husband involve me in this "activity" because it might help bring us closer as a couple. Yes, telling an addict that if they involved their wife in watching P, it wouldn't be an addiction anymore is super helpful. So, we are looking for another one once again. My therapist is going to speak with another one that works in the same building as her to see if he can see my husband and help him. We don't have SA counselors in this state.
  9. Tarsus

    Tarsus Fapstronaut

  10. Trobone

    Trobone Fapstronaut

    I never thought she was lecturing me - but I felt beat down like I was being interrogated. If I didn't know something, I was on the witness stand. I was also defensive about my family, however now I see that she has fresh outside eyes, and with help I'm seeing them clearer (this has been a multi-year thing, expedited recently, but not 100% new).

    We saw a couples therapist when we first got married - after I was found out the first time. She pretty much said it was an impulse control issue and my roleplaying was because I needed better validation. She never dived into WHY I wanted validation or went to porn - despite going to see her over years. Pretty much said porn is no big deal, just need to know appropriate vs inappropriate times. This last time I said enough with her and found a CSAT and told her I wanted my ass kicked. Best thing I did.
    DefendMyHeart likes this.
  11. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Things have been somewhat okay today. I dont want to say completely okay because there was a confession earlier that left me saddened to hear since it was regarding a friend of mine. Ever since my husband and I married, and especially after D-day, I've mostly lost contact with all of my friends. They stopped coming to visit after my husband moved in with me, and it was not until after D-day that one of the main reasons why was due to his sexualization of them that made him just feel creepy to be around. I finally started having a friend come around again, which has been nice, but the disclosure sorta makes it not so nice anymore. I imagine this is similar to what other SO's experience as well. Perhaps this is exclusive to myself.
    I finally received my peer reviewed paper back, so now I can continue to work on it. Well, once I find some motivation to complete it, that is. It is due next week. The due dates used to be plenty motivating for me to complete my tasks, but now they just make me angry because I want to put things off. I feel as though my entire motivation for school has significantly declined over these last three years, and it really sucks. I want to find my love for learning again, but I've got to remember where I put it first.
    One day at a time.
    Tarsus likes this.
  12. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    As I'm writing my paper, there are a few things that keep coming to mind. I'm hoping that by writing about them here, they will subside enough to where I am able to focus on my work.

    One of the things my husband really wants from me is approval. I'm fully aware of the fact that he tells me some of the things he does because he wants me to tell him that I'm proud of how he did this or that. Ive resigned this as part of my responsibility a long time ago because he used to tell me things that seemed like he was doing good when he was actually doing things he knew he shouldn't be doing. He would then take my "good job" as a blanket and cover the entire thing he did to justify his behaviors. One particular example comes to mind. He would go out of his way to look at someone, get excited by them, then do breathing exercises to bring himself out of that excitement. He would tell me he saw someone, felt this way, then got out of it. He would leave out the part that he went out of his way to look at this person, sometimes more than once or twice. He would then think that it was okay to continue to do all the above, as long as he was able to just tell me the good part.
    There have been a lot of things that he has ruined for me with this. I used to love watching the avengers movies. I told him about one of my favorite actresses in them, and he decided to look her up. I was not too happy about him doing this, for obvious reasons, but he didn't care and continued to do it. I got mad and left the room. He continued to watch her in clips after I went to bed and it put him in a hyper-aroused state. He then goes into the bathroom and "calms himself down" before he came to bed. The next morning he tells me all of this and actually expected me to be happy that he was able to get himself out of that state of mind. I had to remind him that he was the one that got himself there to begin with, so how could I be happy about anything? He never tried to see my point of view, was only interested in his own.

    I really don't know why these things are suddenly bothering me since they happened some time ago. They just bubbled to the surface all of a sudden. Maybe it is due to feeling like things are better between him and myself right now and I'm still too afraid to be close to him, so this is acting as a defense to that feeling? Perhaps that is it.
    Tarsus likes this.
  13. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I have ASD.

    I have spent years trying to figure out why I have felt so different, why I think differently, why I navigate my world the way that I have. My husband has spent years trying to figure out why I dont show love and affection like he does, why he always has to initiate things, and why I act the way that I do towards him. He read it as though I didn't love him. The truth of the matter was, I dont know how to show affection the way an NT person does.

    There is a part of me that is relieved to know this. There is another part of me that is anxious about how to proceed. Do I tell people? Maybe they will understand why I speak to them the way that I do, and that it is not personal. Maybe my instructors will be more understanding of my inability to give presentations in front of a class. Maybe they will understand why I couldn't take on the role of a college professor for this same reason.

    I've spent years "masking" and "camouflaging" to make up for my lack of understanding of what is acceptable in social situations. I've spent years studying psychology to learn more about human behavior so I could fit in a little more, only to further stand out because I still take things literally.
    My husband: We will leave in a minute
    Me: okay! *waits exactly one minute then stresses out because he still isn't ready to leave

    This explains so much about my actions, or lack thereof. I am consciously aware of my body language in every social interaction I have, including with my husband.

    Just something I needed to get out that I've been holding in for awhile.
    MountainInMyWay, Tarsus and kropo82 like this.
  14. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    A big part of the reason I decided to post what I did above was because there are a lot of things I am still trying to come to terms with and understand. When I discovered the lie my husband told me when he was texting someone else, I blamed myself. I blamed myself because I didn't show him affection in the way he wanted me to. He listened to me blame myself and didn't stop me from doing it. He even agreed with me.

    When D-day happened, I again, blamed myself. I wasn't able to "fix him" with the love I felt for him because I didn't show it in a way he could understand it. There is still a part of me that feels as though I'm to blame for his continued problems even though he doesn't watch P anymore. I dont feel good enough. I dont feel as though I measure up to what he expects or wants in a relationship. I've given him many chances to leave because of how I am. He couldn't understand why I couldn't just overcome things and do what he wanted me to do.

    There is still a lot of things that happened in the past that sting. There are things that still happen today that sting, and I still blame myself for not being good enough.
    Tarsus likes this.
  15. MountainInMyWay

    MountainInMyWay Fapstronaut

    It is not our fault. Their lack of self control is not our fault. Their lack of responsibility is not our fault. Their chasing something not real to fake fill them up is not our fault. The fact they did this before us is not our fault. We could have supermodel bodies and have sex 5 times a day and they would still do this. A perfect 10 lady in my group is living this! Their sickness is not our fault. Even if it’s easier on them to think that - it does not make it true. Warrior sister, I know you know this.

    Anything that pushes against this is manipulation. It’s insecurity. It’s the enemy putting words into our head.

    You are courageous. You are wonderfully unique. You are worthy of safety and protection. You deserve a true and secure love. You are more than good enough.
    Tarsus likes this.
  16. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    Thank you for this. A reminder is always helpful.
    Tarsus and MountainInMyWay like this.
  17. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    My husband and I have been working on a new plan regarding his confessions. Since he now has an AP, there is no reason for him to continue to tell me some of the things he still does. The day before yesterday was rough because of these confessions. This is a big part of why I said what I did a few days ago in my journal. His words brought me back down to a low, depressing spot. I am fully aware of the fact that I dont meet the criteria he sought in women. What he considered "pretty" is superficial and P induced. I dont want to hear any more of these words said to me. He may as well push me down and kick me in the face, because that is equivalent to the feelings I have when he tells me things that involve how other women look. I know I dont look like them, and I will never look like them. Ive never even tried to do so. Most of the time I am content with how I look. It isnt until I am reminded of what I dont look like that I get depressed and feel worthless. Women are taught that our worth is in our looks. If we don't meet arbitrary criteria that changes all the time, then we have no worth. I grew up with this mindset being drilled into my head. I was always told that my worth was low because I didn't look like my sisters. I was different.
    The whole concept of beauty is arbitrary. When I was a young adult, I used to have men who were older than my dad tell me I looked like a pretty movie star they used to watch. I found a bit of solace in knowing that at one point in time, my "worth" meant something. There is no way any of us can compare to the airbrushed, seemingly flawless actresses of today. The person I resembled was prior to all that technology. That same technology that keeps young girls in a perpetual state of low self esteem because they don't match what is shown on television, in magazines, and in media. The beauty industry is a multi billion dollar one. It preys on the minds of girls and women alike, hits their vulnerabilities, and does so to make money. It is truly sad.
    When studying hunter-gatherer tribes that still exist today, there were a few things that were super interesting about them. One, the women didn't mind being chubby, especially in the winter. As a matter of fact, they would find nuts and gorge on them to gain weight. They understood the importance of this in terms of health and fertility. Second, they didn't care so much about what their face looked like, but rather, they focused on the colors of the beads they wore instead. The prettier and more extravagant the beads, the better. It didn't matter if they were "pretty" or "ugly" according to western standards. There was no value in looks in that way. What mattered was their capabilites, their ability to bear and raise children, their ability to help the tribe, their understanding of nature,, and their ability to teach lessons to the next generations. This was where value was placed. To me, they are beautiful for this.
    Tarsus likes this.
  18. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

    I think all people have value. To judge it based on the ability to have children, or any ability, is as judgmental and arbitrary as looks. We have 2 family members with downs syndrome. They will never be able to care for themselves much less anyone else. We many times don’t see that life has value. Their life, has value in spite of the fact they aren’t pretty by someone’s standards, they aren’t useful by most standards, they can be a burden. You have value and worth no matter what you look like, or what you can or can’t do. Should you become incapacitated and unable to “ do” for others, it would not lower your worth. Remember, even some of the most vile humans were useful to society or have done heroic deeds.
    Tarsus and DefendMyHeart like this.
  19. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    I hear what you're saying, and I realize I wasn't clear. Because I was emotional when I wrote it, I fell into placing arbitrary standards on what I saw. In short, all life had value to them, even the disabled, whether through birth or illness. They were not seen as burdens because they couldn't contribute. It was believed all life deserved happiness.
    In one tribe, those who were born with a disability were seen as gifts, as it was believed they came to teach them something, whether it be the value of life itself, or some ancestral knowledge.
    It is here that I agree with them and see that everyone has value, regardless of anything considered arbitrary.
    My youngest child is lower functioning autistic. I would never dream of looking at her as a burden on society because, like you, I feel everyone has a reason to be here. Everyone has worth, and is allowed to exist in their own space. I could place something arbitrary here by saying that everyone is a teacher of something. Even if they can't speak, or provide lessons in some capacity on their own, it doesn't mean the lesson isn't there.
    Tarsus and Psalm27:1my light like this.
  20. DefendMyHeart

    DefendMyHeart Fapstronaut

    This week has been an emotional one. I've been working on a research paper that deals with aspects of PA as well as betrayal trauma. Reading about betrayal trauma more in depth has created a lot of triggers for me, which causes me to take several breaks from it. I feel as though it is going to be difficult to present it to others, which has to be done this week, so I've been trying to emotionally distance myself from the content. It has been quite the exercise for the brain.
    I persist because of the importance of this topic. When I look at the stats surrounding betrayal trauma, it is heartbreaking to see that there are so many women out there that do not understand that they are in trauma, and don't know where to go for help due to the stigma associated with PA. I've been reading papers starting back in 1981 that talk about the impacts of PA on the SO, and it is unfortunate that these studies did not gain more traction. The evidence is there, and has been there for a long time. My goal is to help advocate for this addiction to be added to the DSM so that more counselors take this addiction seriously when people go for help. So that they're not told that everything is normal, or in the case of my husbands therapist, that it is only an issue because I have an issue with it. It goes so much further than that. There is a lot of research that supports this and shows that this addiction is equivalent to that of substance addiction. Not just in terms of tolerance and withdrawal, but actual structural changes that occur in the brain. Heck, there are even addicts on here that don't believe the science behind this addiction.
    I feel like if this addiction is able to obtain classification in the DSM, then more women will be able to get help for trauma as a result. Especially if they can be interlinked somehow. It is just frustrating that a billion dollar business has more say over what happens in society than those who suffer from the consumption of the product. This really needs to change.
    Tarsus likes this.

Share This Page