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Married and hard mode - bunch of probs

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by myrealnameis, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. myrealnameis

    myrealnameis Fapstronaut

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    hi,

    Will pose a number of questions based on my experience. Looking for answers and support. Please feel free to answer any or all questions. Much appreciated in advance!

    So my wife knows I have porn addiction and is being incredibly supportive. I have failed a few times but so far we have been successful in going hard mode for 37 days (soft mode for 49). Here are my questions:

    1) since I don't want her to suffer for my issues, I always insist on finishing her off whenever we get intimate. I know she wants me to but she tells me I don't need to because she doesn't want to make things worse. I think I'm fine - it's not a trigger. Thoughts?

    2) due to our intimate moments, I've been experiencing serious blue balls. The longer we have been in hard more the more severe it became. Tried the ice pack method but it didn't help much, the only solution I discovered is to suck it up until it goes away by itself. Any tips? Any harmful side effects from this? I thought my body would have a wet dream and release by now, but clearly my brain hasn't rewired for that to happen. (Side question: does having a wet dream constitute as O?)

    3) does edging via a handjob constitute a reset? Please say no because I cannot go back to 0, plus it's her hands not mine!

    4) I am currently recovering from a flatline. Since it started until now I have become somewhat depressed and demotivated to do anything. Is this normal? Will I recover from this naturally or do I need to do something about it?

    5) I'm having super strong urges which is really testing my resolve. I'm slipping a bit where I find myself going on dating sites / fb and checking out hot girls profiles. Not trying to cheat on my wife or anything, just hungry and deprived and looking for some form of outlet. Does this constitute a reset?

    Really hope you can help in any of these issues and apologies for the long post.

    Thanks!
     
    Flyhigh likes this.
  2. Flyhigh

    Flyhigh Fapstronaut

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    Edging is a reset. You're lucky you have a very understanding wife. Use it as your motivation.
     
    Bel likes this.
  3. I will win

    I will win Fapstronaut

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    You're lucky to have such a wife, most wives don't care about this addition, but only care about themselves considering watching porn cheating on them.
     
    Flyhigh likes this.
  4. Flyhigh

    Flyhigh Fapstronaut

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    Yea we're here to support you, the community is doing great.
     
  5. sparkywantsnoPMO

    sparkywantsnoPMO NoFap Moderator & Yeoman
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    1) Treat her like you love her unconditionally. Do whatever it takes to support that. You will reset in time, but the most important part is that you learn to be selfless to her. Stop worrying about yourself and you will be saved.

    2) Blue balls. Hold on as long as you possibly can. Then, honestly, when you can't stand it a moment longer, I think you should share an intimate moment with your wife. Then do your best to continue recovering. Do it for her.

    3) It depends on the terms of your recovery. If you have no PMO as your terms, it would constitute a reset. But keep working your recovery.

    4) Yes normal and yes you will recover naturally.

    5) Are you resisting? Keep resisting.
     
    Bel likes this.
  6. Commited2Health

    Commited2Health Fapstronaut

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    Congratulations on your resolve!

    You will get different advice here. Each of us are doing what we feel is best for our different problems and issues and to starve all P urges we have. Dopamine is for Porn Companies as Nicotine is for cigarette companies. Addictive as heck and they know it. I say this because your 'depression' is an illusion as your body gets used to less dopamine. Eventually you will come back to a real normal level. After lots of excitement and dopamine, especially years and years of it, our 'normal' has been raised too high. So, trust that it will feel better as you reset your level.

    Focus on your wife. Her needs. Intimacy as well. In the first couple of weeks, we were intimate and I would finish her off. I was still suffering from PIED (Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction). I have since rewired my brain to her. Still haven't reached non medicated 100% erections, but will get there, I can sense the changes already.

    I am not doing hard mode on the NoFap. I am doing no PMO and no MO. But O from my lady and my lady alone is totally ok. If we are intimate and my body responds, I will let myself have a natural O with my wife. But, I do not touch myself, even in her presence and during sex. Never. If she gets me there that is fine for us. The point is for me to rewire to her and nothing artificial and to trust my body.

    AVOID YOUTUBE AND THE LIKE. I have also been having issues with this. I get the urge to look, thinking it is innocent. But, it is the DOPAMINE high you get even thinking about it that is causing PROBLEMS with your dopamine levels. RESIST! AVOID. It's not a relapse if you turn it off immediately and come here and get your mind off of it. But, it can be as addictive as hard sites. It stunts your growth. I came here this morning because I had an urge to see a naked woman this morning. (My lady is out of town). After this post, I feel much better. REMEMBER, THE URGE IS PROOF THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS WORKING. So, acknowledge the urge but then starve the urge (don't give in) until over a period of time, the urge shrivels up and will be gone, forever)

    Hope that helps. Great you have a supportive partner.
     
    Bel and Protagoras like this.
  7. myrealnameis

    myrealnameis Fapstronaut

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    Hey all thank you very much for your replies.

    Very confused about the edging part as again it's done by my wife (thought that would be an exception?) but yeah I guess I just have to figure out the impact on me personally and whether it's something that is hindering my progress.

    Really appreciate your answers regarding looking at profiles as an outlet. You are right it did feel like I'm getting my dopamine fix. Felt myself slipping there so I am very thankful that I got your advice and now I am more conscious about it and resisting. Trying my best also to avoid looking at pretty women in my commute to work (which is a super difficult challenge!!)

    Re blue balls, I had a wet dream last night, did not feel as relieving as I've hoped and I'm writing a post about it, hope I can get your help there.

    And yes, definitely she is my motivation and I am fully aware how lucky I am to have her. My low self esteem makes me think a flawed person like me does not deserve her. all I've done is hurt her and drag her through this ugliness with me but I would have not gotten this far if it wasn't for her.
     
    Commited2Health and Flyhigh like this.
  8. Flyhigh

    Flyhigh Fapstronaut

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    Stop beating yourself up.
     
    Commited2Health likes this.
  9. Lheastwoo

    Lheastwoo Fapstronaut

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    Hey man,

    This is a rough and ambiguous situation and advice will be all over the place depending on what is motivating the individual giving advice.
    May I ask why you have chosen to abstain from O in a healthy context, such as in intimation relations with your wife.

    I don't want to outwardly challenge your resolve to not O during. However, I feel as if you may be choosing to introduce the wrong idea in the bedroom, and this may cause more difficulty in the future. However, I can not accurately make that assumption without knowing more context.

    Now, I'm not quite a professional, I am on my way there, almost done with school (going to be a psychologist) and I am specializing in treating these kind of specific sexual dysfunctions and difficulties. So I can give you scientifically supported evidence for my claims.

    I applaud you for your resolve, you are an amazing man for being disciplined enough to not reach completion during sexual encounters. Sounds very selfless, it sounds like your wife is just as lucky to have you as much as you are to have her.
     
  10. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    As a SO, I'm probably going to give the unpopular opinion.
    My guy has been going through his reboot for over a year now.
    We keep two counters on him.
    The one - he's been PM free for over a year.
    The other he is around 60 days.
    He had a relapse reset.
    (most people here roll their eyes at this, but he takes his reboot VERY seriously.)
    He reset himself due to looking at P-Subs.
    He felt his brain go "fuzzy" and he knew it was bad for his reboot.
    He got off of FB.
    He doesn't ogle women.
    Or seek it out.
    I don't use my hands and edging is a NO.
    We do, do tantra, however.
    Hands, his or mine make his "seeking dopamine drips" more intense and he wants to ogle... Unintentionally.
    It makes his day-to-day harder.
    To quit this, he's taken alot of environmental routines and changed them.
    I write about this in my journal.
    "A New Hope" it's in Partner Support, If you want to read about it.
    He's also found that cold showers were helpful for the blue balls.
    He said this took about 30 days tho, to acclimate to.
    Because when he has a "bad day" we take S off the table so we avoid the Chaser.
    I think it's great you have a understanding wife.
    It's going to make your journey easier.
    But as a SO.... we all want progress.... Even baby steps eventually.
    I support mine, as long as he's moving forward.
    Not backwards.
    I hope you have been honest about your dream.
    Honesty is the best policy.
    My SO had weird dreams when we were getting started.
    They freaked me out, but looking back, I'm glad we talked about it.
    We still talk about his dreams and my dreams every morning.
    We set our alarm clock 10min earlier so we can every day.
    That way we get negative emotions out of the way of the day, if there are any and we don't carry them around with us all day.
    Healing can be hard.
    Or random.
    Even a year later.
    Last night he had another dream about the giant ant keeping him from doing yard work. (my point is, the dreams get better :) )
    I hope any thing I said is helpful, even one thing.
    Good luck.
     
    hope4healing, Bel and myrealnameis like this.
  11. myrealnameis

    myrealnameis Fapstronaut

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    Again thank you all for your support, I honestly am feeling stronger thanks to you great people.

    As for ogling and looking at women, I am now taking active steps to immediately look away or lowering my gaze when commuting and when on social media. Luckily I only use fb.

    Yeah the more I think about it the more I realise O or even E is not good for me, it's not adding to our intimacy at the moment and I'm just using it as a way to get that good feeling.

    Unfortunately I still find myself thinking about P when we are having intimate times. I force myself to keep my mind off it and focus on my wife but the battle in itself is causing me to lose concentration on what's happening. Has this happened to any of you? Any ideas on how to tackle this or will it go with time?

    Regarding your question on why - bunch of reasons. Partly because whenever I O (even with my wife) I end up feeling foggy and tired the next day with a feeling of guilt (eventhough it's the good kind of O). The guilt also come so from the feeling that I failed myself in properly finishing 90 days hard mode. I feel like I'm taking the easy way out and if I keep doing this then I will never be able to fully stand up and face this thing full force. Finally it's just a personal challenge for my wife and I. We just want to do 90 days hardmode to see the benefits properly without any disturbance (if that makes sense). Every time we fail to reach 90 days she takes it hard on herself because she read that proper hard mode is very beneficial and she feels like she's hindering my progress to achieve those benefits.

    For now we will keep doing Karreza and I will avoid E and O.
     
    Lheastwoo and Bel like this.
  12. Lheastwoo

    Lheastwoo Fapstronaut

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    So I'm going to post some advice that I posted in another forum. It is a lot but gets to the point I want to present to you.
    Basically it seems you have conditioned yourself through negative affirmations, and it has created an unhealthy sexual mentality in the bedroom with your wife.
    Please do what you feel is best for you, and my advice may step on your toes a bit, however, it is a good thing to address this problem from many angles. So if anything, entertain the thought even if you don't agree with it.

    A man posted in the other thread that "Any orgasm will delay recovery"
    My response is as follows

    "I have seen no science that supports this theory, In fact, majority of science on recovery supports retraining your thoughts during the process of orgasm. Not avoiding and villainizing a natural human function.
    Try to focus on the feeling of the orgasm and the feeling of your body during. Avoid any thoughts of porn or excessive lust. fantasizing about previous partners can be healthy if the relationship was healthy. This is getting in touch with your true self. If you find yourself lusting or sexualizing others during, then stop, if you find yourself thinking of porn, then stop.

    This process takes discipline, so if the case is you do not have enough discipline to avoid those things during, then you need to practice training your willpower. google it and you will find many suggestions on it.

    It is important to find recovery through healthy means, studies done by reputable scientists in this field show that Sexual Anorexia (avoiding any sexual encounter or action, even if it is specific, like avoiding only orgasm) actually aggravates the addictive cycle and follows many of the same patterns, mainly preoccupation with the thoughts, shame, and relapse. To achieve true recovery, you need to retrain yourself to go back to your healthy and untainted sexuality."

    This last line applies to you in many ways, it is no wonder you continue to feel the thoughts of shame and "fogginess" (I assume this is from mental exhaustion due to being "preoccupied with the thoughts"). You have brought the problem with you into the healthy sexual encounter. It is possible to separate the problem and create a more healthy context in the bedroom that can contribute to recovery. Healing can also come from a truly open and honest dialogue with a romantic partner, this requires a highly intimate and trusting relationship though. And it sounds like you might have that. Affirmation from your wife, and teaching yourself to learn positive emotion through a sexual encounter with her can do wonders for you.

    Here is some more of my post

    "Avoid any sort of negative conditioning, it can do massive damage on your psyche. Do not fall into a cycle of shaming your natural functions. If we think about neuroplasticity and what not, if we associate a negative feeling with an action enough times, the negative feeling will become involuntary. It would delay true recovery by many years if you successfully conditioned yourself to associate orgasm with negative feelings. Effecting your ability to carry on with healthy relationships with those you love intimately.

    This of course depends on your religious background and beliefs, I am coming from a purely scientifically supported standpoint. Perhaps your journey is truly different and it is not my place to correct you. although there are quite a few sexual disorders that can come from sexual shaming, and religious persons (amoungst others) can be effected by theses things immensely. Unable to carry on healthy sexual relationships with there husbands or wives due to the amount of shame they feel associated with sexual activity. that doesn't shut off instantly when you get married for most if they condition themselves into it.

    For some though, abstinence is a healthy tool to utilize in order to "reset" there brain. although this is far more complex and personally ambiguous process (usually led by a professional) than many people here will lead it on to be. There is a reason why many people relapse on here. Hulk moments of defeating the evil do not work.

    If you have any other questions or comments feel free to ask, I will elaborate on any advice and provide citations if you would like to read the studies yourself, i will warn you that they are written in statistical language and can be difficult to comprehend for someone who is not familiar with it.

    I will also add that a 90 day reset can be helpful, however, it depends on what you do during the 90 days, and for many, it is not a realistic option. MO can be healthy if you can condition yourself to avoid porn for any MO experience. Fantasy and otherwise. This again can get ambiguous, as there is a healthy amount of fantasy, and an unhealthy amount. However, for those recovering from self diagnosed porn addiction ("sexually compulsive behavior" if you ask majority in the mental health field) it is best to avoid fantasy and strive for building a healthy sexual behavior.

    There is no easy way to do this, but it is very possible and I believe you can!

    Keep in mind we are not talking about drug or alcohol addiction. We are talking about something that would happen naturally regardless if you were introduced to it or not. From psychologies standpoint, masturbation, orgasm, and sex is not the problem. Your attitude about masturbation, orgasm, sex is the problem.

    And sorry for the ridiculous amount of information, I am erring on the side of being overly helpful.

    In a sexual context, try and go into it focused on your partners reactions to what you are doing, try and focus on how your body feels with your partner. Try and go into sex wanting to learn something, whether that's about what you enjoy, or how to please someone better or anything else is really up to you. The more educational and positive motivations you put behind the experience, the better the outcome will be.

    The goal is to feel pure and unashamed of your sexuality. This is one of many ways to do that.
     
  13. Lheastwoo

    Lheastwoo Fapstronaut

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    Another thing to keep in mind, and this is a very mature (mature in this context means old and been tested many times) and accepted theory in psychology,

    A problem is not a problem unless the person experiencing said problem defines the consequences as real.
    this is how you get serial killers and sociopaths. So be careful with that line of thinking, conditioning yourself to find no consequence in your negative actions is not something I am suggesting in any way.

    What I am saying is that the way you view this now has created the consequences for you. For all you know your fogginess after comes from some sort of other action you preform without thinking after sex or something like that.
    correlation does not prove causation.

    See,
    to quote pirates of the Caribbean

    "the problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude about the problem, savy?"
    this statement is very very true in many ways.

    If you can condition yourself to find health and wonder and fun in the bedroom with your wife, and eliminate the shame and guilt from your separate problem, it will do wonders for your marriage and yourself. This will take time and effort, consistent reinforcement and affirmations.

    Ask me or message me if you need any further help or want to hear more! I love to see progress and love to help!

    You got this man, someday you will look back on this experience and feel great about how you overcame it!
     
  14. Jarom

    Jarom Fapstronaut

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    I
    would you be willing to share some of your reasearch with me. Also, could you elaborate a little more on your statement,"Hulk moments of defeating the evil do not work." Any information you share with me I will be grateful to receive.
     
    Lheastwoo likes this.
  15. Lheastwoo

    Lheastwoo Fapstronaut

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    Glad you asked,

    I will post some sties and bloggers (most of which will have a PhD) who do research from reputable journals researching the above information. Some will be cited and others will not.
    Unfortunately, unless you want to pay for a subscription to a medical journal, you will not be able to read anything except for the abstract of the research cited (I will include some of those as well). And even then, you will need to understand statistical language used in current medical science.
    This is unless you attend a school, then your library will most likely have a subscription to most medical journals that you can utilize to read the entire study.

    The problem you will run into is that there are many ways to address one disorder, it is highly personalized to the individual. My goal here is to help people find a positive view on their sexuality. To reset themselves to the sexuality they had before porn. Not to condition people into shaming natural functions as many inadvertently strive for. Depending on your educational background, religious beliefs, motivation, the level to which you are letting fear dictate your decisions, and general demeanor when doing such research, your personal biases will influence your opinions on it. Some people outwardly refuse the validity of science and believe there own beliefs. (this can be healthy, as it is important to have faith, personal identity and whatnot, however can be infuriating and make it extremely difficult to treat someone with well documented successful treatments) (I say these things as a christian, I am not an atheist scientist if that carries any weight to your opinion of me.)

    I make no claim not to be influence by my biases, and in some cases, my advice will be wrong for the individual. It all depends on the positive standard you are striving for. If you wish to continue to use negative influence as motivation for your recovery, that is a personal choice, and can motivate some to find balance. However, using positive motivations will almost always lead to a more stable, enjoyable, and healthy recovery.

    1.
    http://nextchapteraddiction.com/sex-addiction-and-sexual-anorexia/
    this will explain the two in a concise manner. You will notice that both disorders usually follow a shaming cycle. Many find that anorexia is just as unhealthy, and plays into addictive cycles. Many people going back and forth between the two due to intense emotional negativity that comes from both behaviors.
    It is an addictive pingpong, one that does very little to lead to recovery.

    2.
    https://www.iitap.com/wp-content/up...e-for-Sexual-Anorexa-144-patients_PCarnes.pdf
    This study is a full report, It is long and complex and I will be surprised if the normal individual does not find it "before bed material." (it makes you tired with how dry it can be)
    This discusses the co-morbidity (the simultaneous presence of two chronic diseases or conditions in a patient) of sexual anorexia with sexual addiction. this one will describe to you the problems of both, and how they play into each others cycles. This had a large enough sample size to avoid any type one or two errors (basically avoiding misdiagnosing and irrelevant application of treatment), and strives to clarify the definitions of both disorders.

    3.
    If we follow the basic ideas of the field called Functionalism (a dated but highly relevant field of psychology), we can see that human response conditioning is a highly documented thing. In this context we are focusing on whats called "Context-Based Reinforcement." From Pavlov's dogs, to little albert (google both, little alberts story is quite demented but an interesting read), and the thousands of studies done after those up to today, we can not ignore the fact that we are highly capable of destroying our own recovery through following misinformation and then taking said information (while the motivations are rooted in good ideations) using the information as practical fact. Conditioning ourselves to follow a set rise and fall of emotions in correlation with our actions. Please look up functionalism and its fathers and people who help solidify the school of thought in order to comprehend more of what I am saying, although, I warn you it will take 4 years of schooling to have an in depth handle on one of the most complex and important schools of psychological thought.

    4.
    https://reclaimsexualhealth.com/Masturbation/physical-effects-of-masturbation.html
    This one explains the science of Context-Based Reinforcement in an accessible manner. It also shows the basics of a cycle of porn addiction (hyper-sexuality, or sexually compulsive behavior, I'm really pushing for people to be aware of the proper terminology). You will find that we can use this information to support either side, as he does from a religious context, but the main point I want to focus on here is the fact that he is still bringing his negative affirmations into the bedroom. He is avoiding O and other things in order to "Reset his brain", there is no science I am aware of that this will be helpful in this context. If he were to engage in positive affirmations during sex with his wife, his neoplastic brain would be able to possibly disassociate his sexual negativity in the context of his sexual relationship with his wife. This is a hard process, and best lead by a professional. However, it is possible in the context of a safe, trusting, and deeply intimate relationship.

    I appreciate seeing another individual who does not want to run with one thought and wishes to educate himself before making controversial and potentially damaging decisions.

    If you wish for more please ask, I will continue to compile evidence for you.

    As for hulk moments, these are intense moments of clarity where one bites off more than he can chew, leading them to possibly be very discouraged with their ability, or lack there of, and in many cases leads to a depression fueled relapse. Consistent positive affirmations and reinforcement is key here.
    @myrealnameis
    I hope you will read through the above advice as well
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  16. Jarom

    Jarom Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for all the information I will read and study all of the information you have offered. The truth is knowledge is power, and I have for years desired a deeper understanding of my addiction, so that I can better understand it have more control. I am married and I have coitus with my wife, and I have never found this an issue in relation to my reboot. Also, is their any research on how guilt or fear can trigger a binge episode? I find that sometimes before a binge I have physical signs i.e. increased heart rate, knots in my stomach, and an overall fearful demeanour.
     

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