masturbation addiction but not to porn?

Im pretty much the same way man. Currently on day 35, fighting like hell still.

 

I remember 2 things, where I want to be with my goals, and the main one, how badly I will be depressed if I relapse. I just wanna reach day 90 already...

 

Its not easy, it is really REALLY not easy. There are times where you will do anything to convince yourself to fap, but you gotta try and remember how shit you will feel if you relapse. That does it for me.

 

Assistant manager eh? Sounds like a job that requires a lot of your time energy and input. Brain foggish sluggyness isn't something you wanna have when you got all those responsibilities. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

Hey @awakenow and @Mobius too. I'm more than twice your age and Mobius, almost three times yours, actually.

Guys, if you'll look down at my counters you will see that my problem hasn't really been P at all but rather MO, and just like you describe. Except that I was caught up in it for decades, years and years. When I was your age, yep. Big kudos to you both for getting awareness now and if you can get recovery, if you can get this now, you can have a great life with a special woman, or women, hey, you gotta shop around, right? You guys'll be just fine and I wish you all the best.

Now, but I will echo what Mobius shared a few posts back, awakenow, and that is, this is really REALLY not easy. You have to commit to yourself, prepare for discomfort, focus on what you want to be, "eyes on the prize." Hey, start a journal over in your age group, check in often, start a counter, hold yourself accountable. There is recovery going on here. Tap into it. And get well! Best wishes to you both. Keep on, my friends!

 

Your problem, and mine, and humanities', begins and ends in the head. Some think they have a porn problem. It looks like it, but it is not. Some think they have a porn/masturbation/orgasm problem. Again, looks like it, but it is not. Some think they have a masturbation problem. Again, no. Looks like it, but it is not. We all have a dopamine problem. We get juiced on dopamine rushes via artificial sexual stimulation. Dopamine is a reward neurotransmitter, and it rewards sexual thoughts because a few million years ago, way before we were modern humans, and probably way before we were even primates, mammals (that's us) evolved the dopamine reward system to encourage reproduction. That system has been ingrained in the mammalian brain for a LONG TIME. It never evolved because it worked. No need to change it. But...then came along something that part of our brains were not prepared for: High Speed Internet Porn. While encouraging actual sex, for the purpose of reproduction, to make babies, that system actually rewards thoughts of sex. So, we don't just get that dopamine reward for the actual deed; we get it for thinking of sex. And, it is not just sex with one partner, dopamine floods our brain, as a reward, for thinking of sex with multiple partners. This has to do with the Coolidge Effect, again, an evolved sexual proclivity, which encourages not only sex, but sex with multiple partners. This is to spread the seed around, so to speak. A few million years ago, when that part of the brain was evolving, natural selection encouraged multiple partners. Not saying we are slaves to it now, but the hardwiring is still there. The thought of constant new, never before seen, novel, partners results in something we could not get before High Speed Internet Porn made those thoughts possible: a constant dopamine high. Thus the addiction.

@awakenow To answer your question, you have already answered you question. You said:

People have given advice like to not to go porn sites and to put away the laptop etc so you don't get tempted. It really does not work like that for me because my mind will do the work for the computer.

You need to stop and understand your problem, and mine, and everyone's here, was always 100% in the mind, in the brain. It is easy to confuse our problem with external stimulation, or physical acts, meaning a computer and rubbing one off. But those are just a means to an end, the buttons we push to get a dopamine rush. The dopamine reward system, the dopamine rush, and the addiction to dopamine, are 100% brain/mind problems. Regardless of a computer, regardless of porn, regardless of High Speed Internet Porn, regardless of touching yourself, if you are using artificial sexual stimulation, aka "thoughts of sex", to get a dopamine high, you are actively engaging the addiction. We all need to understand this. I don't know what is going on in your mind while you are MOing, but I doubt you are thinking of peeling potatoes, polishing your shoes, or watching paint peel. No, you are using hypersexual thoughts to get that rush. You may even be using porn fantasy or porn memory, but, regardless, you ARE using artificial sexual thoughts, AKA artificial sexual stimulation.

That, by the way, is not a "bad" thing, it is just reality. It is just you abusing your primitive brain's dopamine reward system, because you can abuse it, and because dopamine rushes feel like liquid bliss, best feeling in the world. It feels good, like being alive in the sun. If it did not cause problems in our lives, we would not quit it.

So, to answer your question: You don't need a laptop, internet, or computer, or porn to abuse that system. I would put money on the bet, however, that for a long time you did use those things, which is how you became addicted to the dopamine high artificial sexual thoughts give us. You can still engage the addiction without those buttons because everything you need is 100% in your mind.

You are moving in the right direction via meditation and attempting to get the thoughts under control, but getting the thoughts under control is the purpose of the reboot. When we quit porn, it is just an extension of getting those thoughts our of our head, because it is not the act of viewing porn that is the problem, it is the artificial sexual thoughts that result from viewing porn that is the problem.

I sent you a PM with the Gary Wilson vid. Watch it over and over and over. You have to get behind the curtains to see that what you thought was the problem, is just scratching the surface.

Hope this helps.

Peace.

Will I AM

 

Same with me. However because of excessive masturbation I wasn't able to get an erection anymore with thoughts/fantasy only, so I started using porn for the stimulation.

Here's a question WilliamOneAndDone:

If masturbating to artificial thoughts/stimulation is wrong, is it ok to masturbate to nothing? Just purely concentrating on the act without thinking about anything? Is that a healthy way of masturbating? Also of course without things like the death grip or other forms of non realistic touching. Not that our own hands are 'realistic', but would it be alright to use gentle strokes without any form of artificial stimulation to eventually O? Would that still affect the dopamine levels and our ability to have real sex?

 

@awakenow , thanks, and you are welcome. @Mikee , I think the best answer is that you are posting in a porn addiction forum, so, that tells me you have identified that as a problem. Again, however, it is not really porn that is the problem, it is the use of artificial sexual stimulation to get a dopamine high. Your question is about touch, but, touching yourself is by definition not sex. The purpose of the reboot, or one of the big purposes, for a lot of guys, is to rewire the brain to allow sex to happen, because porn use has desensitized the dopamine reward center to actual sex, resulting in porn induced erectile dysfunction. They cannot get it up or reach O with a real girl, but only with porn. MOing is by definition artificial sexual stimulation to get a dopamine high. It just is. Ask yourself the question: Why do I like to MO, or, maybe more accurately, why do I love to? What is that "good feeling" I get from it. The answer is: you are using it to get a dopamine high. If picking our nose gave us a dopamine high, we would pick our noses constantly, or, at least want to all the time, and do so some of the time. Like @awakenow sort of said, a dopamine high feels like "happiness", and so he gets a dopamine high because he does not have a lot of other forms of happiness. I am sorry as to be so unromantic as to break it down to a brain-chemical-reaction, but happiness is a dopamine high. My advice to you is: get clean first, then ask the question again. The thing is, once we get clean, most don't want to ever go back, and so we don't play with our triggers. Make the seemingly huge and insurmountable problem a small problem or no problem at all, then ask yourself who and what you want to be sexually. Get free of the addiction, then, if from time to time you want to give yourself a dopamine high through MO, do it, while being aware of what you are doing, and not being a slave to it. But get clean first and understand that to get clean you have to totally clear it out of your system before you could ever experiment with it. You cannot keep the addiction in your life, even a little, and get clean from it. It has to 100'% go for at least three months. That is what they call the hard 90.

Hope this helps.

Peace.

Billy the Kid.

 

I feel like this thread was started by myself, because I can relate to everything you're going through awakenow. For years I would mask my unhappiness with masturbation. I feel like I have broke my addiction to pmo, so I know I'm making progress but the I still get urges to masturbate, usually when I'm not feeling good, probably due to training myself over the years as using it as the means to feel better.

What's helping me is adding new habits and activities in my life. I now go to the gym regularly, try to eat healthier, and am forcing myself to be more social. It seems we need to retrain our brains to get natural dopamine releases again instead of relying on artificial sources for it. I've started talking to girls on a dating website and it really makes me feel good to feel wanted, plus it's giving me more confidence. There is this one girl that I may be meeting up in the middle of December and I owe it to myself and her to be the best I can, which is part of what's motivating me to quit masturbation.

Quitting cold turkey doesn't work and it just makes the process more stressful and harder. We have to replace bad behaviors with new, healthier ones. I've tried quitting since July and until recently have had little success because I didn't make any other changes to my life. This journey is more about better our entire lives instead of just cutting out pmo and mo.

 

Dude, it's like we're twins! Seriously, I'm the exact way, I even told someone once it's like I'm addicted to being alone, because it seemed like I preferred it (this was about 8 months ago). It really hit me recently because I like to run, but man it's so lonely and finding people who can keep up with me and such is hard, so instead I've toughed it out and started running on the treadmill at the gym. Last week I even had a crazy thing happen, I was already on the treadmill and this cutie got on one a few away from mine. After I started running she switched over to the one right next to mine, like she was sending me signals or something. I glanced over and saw a ring so instantly went back to my old ways of avoidance, even though I was sooooo close to talking to her. But still that little event made my whole day and makes the change worth it. I'll definitely talk to her if I see her again. Life is too short to second guess things, just do it!

I do believe a lot of my anxiety comes from my childhood as well, because I was always alone growing up, even though I did have an occasional friend here and there. Books, video games and models were my best friends growing up, all activities I did on my own for the most part. My dad barely talked to me and my mom didn't involve herself as much as I had wished, so I shied away from any after-school activities or clubs. So definitely it's hard trying to do these things now, because they are foreign to me, but seeing how I can accomplish what I previously told myself I couldn't just gives me motivation to keep on going.

Just this last October I ran a marathon (26.2 miles in 4.5 hours), which would have been impossible for me even just a few years ago, but I put in the dedication to bettering myself and that's the fruits of my labor. That alone tells me anything (well almost anything ) is possible, you just have to want it enough. I could have easily stopped at mile 20, when my legs could barely move, but I toughed it out and told myself no way am I quitting, I've come too far. That's how I feel about pmo and mo now too, I've accomplished so much by cutting it out, I can't give up now.

 

It's funny because at my old gym there was a similar girl who I would see on the treadmills a lot too, and I did eventually build up the courage to talk to her, but it was a quick one off because I'm not gonna lie, I was intimidated by her, even though she was half my size haha. Something I find working in my favor is I work in retail, so I have to talk to a lot of people in general. I actively make it a point to talk with as many women as I can to help with the confidence.

It had it's moments, but I made it worse than it actually was, because there are so many home situations worse than what I had. I just dwelled on what mine was without thinking about others. Looking back at that and approaching it how I do now, helps me a lot and has contributed to my new overall happiness. Cold would be a good term to describe me. It was very rare that I talked to people about my feelings. I usually expressing it in other ways, mostly with the music I listened to. My tastes got to the point where I was listening to black and death metal, which when I told people that they were stunned because I always had a general happy mood, or atleast not one of someone who listens to that music. That might also have to do the with any dopamine release I had from listening to music, because there seemed to be a correlation to my music tastes much like many describe how porn fetishes get worse and worse as time goes on because what was previously found desirable no longer is. I started off with radio rock and slowly progressed to some of the most extreme genres. Now I only listen to a handful of metal bands, and have actually taken up a liking to hip-hop, haha.

Thanks, neither did I, but with the right mindset I was able to finish. It was also amazing to have hundreds of people cheering you on and other runners, so that motivated me to not disappoint myself or others by not finishing.

 

A very valid question, Mikee,
but to be honest I don't believe I could do it.
And I just happen to have watched a monks' video who said something pointing towards that direction: Go on youtube