Masturbation is the Real Enemy

Have you really M'd to a bag of potato chips? I've never heard about someone M'ing to something that wasn't sexual in nature. All the stuff I M'd to back then were of women. I've always had to have a woman in mind to get an erection.

I think in this thread what it really boils down to is the relationship between M and P. What exactly is P to M? Well, it seems to me that P and P substitutes are only enablers of M. That is when we want to masturbate we open that tab, call up that imagery, or get that magazine or movie. Then we drop our drawers, take out our thing, turn on the movie or call up the pictures, or whatever, and enjoy ourselves. So P is a way to M and O. Its the dopamine hit we want, P and P substitutes just provide the necessary stimulus for us.

That sounds like I'm agreeing with you, Keen Eye. But I think there is something that is even worse than M. And that is sexual objectification. I don't know how it gets started, but it is common for people to grow up today objectifying other people, reducing them to sexual objects to be used in their sexual fantasies. Maybe its the way sex is portrayed on tv. Maybe its the sexual permissiveness of our culture. Maybe it is the way our culture tells us to pursue our own pleasure. Whatever the case, sexual objectification precedes both M and P in my opinion. If you are going to allow other people to be objects of your sexual gratification, then you are going to do it whether you have P or not.

Other people are not out there to be objects of your sexual gratification. They are out there to be acquaintances, neighbors, friend, and maybe even lovers. Respect other people. Respect their boundaries. Who wants to be the object of a pimply, socially awkward teenager PMO fantasies? It's disgusting, something that would give anybody goosebumps.

The selfishness of sexual gratification can only be combated with love. Because it is love that turns us outside ourselves and makes us realize that people have selves just like us, that they have dreams, goals, struggles and fears. And as soon as we humanize other people, then we can't use them for our own sexual gratification. Because they are people just like us, with sexual lives to be respected and not to be abused. Because admit it, PMOing to P and P substitutes is like a form of rape. It is taking someone's image and using it for our sexual gratification without their permission. So when it comes to other people, we can only love them, and through that love we may someday find that type of sexual love that can only be built on recognition of mutual personhood.

 

This has turned out to be a great thread!

 

I don't see why it is not. Just because you do not personally know the woman does not mean it is not objectification. The woman has already been partially objectified by having her picture taken and being just another nameless face on a page or computer screen. But you reinforce this objectification my making her the subject of your sexual fantasies. If you were not objectifying her, then you would probably be wondering who she is, what she is feeling, etc, which is what we would do with a real human being.

 

This is a timely post for me. I'm coming up to 90 days now and found myself going back to porn a bit, but although I've got turned on I've always kept it in my pants. I watch for a minute or so, realise the pointlessness of it, then stop. All sorts of emotions coming up. I used to use a porn filter but it wasn't working for me. I need to face a world full of porn and be uninterested in it, rather than set up a bunch of obstacles for myself, which I can easily overcome when I want to anyway.

Allowing access again has been difficult but this is the reality I need to face.

I've not M or O'd or edged at all and that's a wonderful result. For me it's the wanking that's the real issue. Not that I think porn is ok, I don't, but without the masturbation it's lost most of it's power. For someone who used to use cocaine and wank to porn for anything up to 8 hours solid I'm really happy with where I am today. Bring on 90 days.

 

Right. That's the struggle. Even if it isn't truly P, there is plenty of nearly P out there -- images and real people -- and we all have to get used to living in that world.

 

Very well said and I fully agree.I can see how masturbation can be harmfull to a man's psyche when one is addictted.I am still in the early stages of my rebooting and I have realized that I can do without the porn but when it comes to stop fapping.That's when I the troubles start.

 

I'm going to stick to my current plan till I hit 90 days, then set a new target that means no watching P at all either. One step at a time. I agree in principle with everything that has been said but I can't rely on technological solutions, the answers must come from within.

For example, I've noticed how quickly my mind turns back to porn whenever I am in an unsupervised internet environment away from my usual filters. So while they have been very helpful for this stage of my development they don't address the underlying issue. Like training wheels on a bike, they've kept me stable as I stopped masturbation, now that I feel I've got control over that I can deal with the porn habit.

I'm very grateful to this website for the support and encouragement it has provided. We can recover!

 

I see your point, it's as though both go hand in hand (pun intended). I guess one could say that all fantasies are P? I'll have to ponder on this more. Good thread and great discussions!

 

You're different then me, then. When I masturbated to visualizations of girls I knew I always was having sex or doing something sexual with them. Not so much to pictures, though.

I think you may have misunderstood me. It is not porn that holds the power to change our view of women. It is objectification. And objectification precedes both masturbation and porn. I don't know how this objectification came about, but to me it is the real enemy, our true battlefield.

 

Objectification comes from the self-centered view of oneself, when everything and everyone is just as valuable for you, as it is useful for satisfying your needs.
Like you use women (real and imaginary) to satisfy your sexual needs, but other than that, you don't value them too much.

 

I think you are right, EarthDragon. We live in a globalized culture that makes virtues out of selfishness and greed, and from a very early age we are taught implicitly to objectify others, to use others as simple means to get what we want. And so when we hit puberty and start having sexual thoughts, nothing is more natural (or unnatural as the case may be) than to start objectifying the opposite sex, or whichever sex you may be attracted to.

 

It's actually worse than that, because in our lives, everyone is treated like an object, and you as well. Because success in not measured by character, but by measurable things. Wealth, money, fame, influence, which can be turned into money in the end. You measure and compare with others your weight, your hight, your bank account, your educational level, the lenght of your dick, the girls you have fucked, and the higher the number, the "better" you are. Beauty? Wisdom? Empathy? Care? Thoughtfullness? What's that? No one knows, no one cares, because it cannot be measured, and cannot be turned into money.

Objectification is a direct consquence of modernism, which viewed humans as a part of a big machinery. If you don't believe me, just look around on the job market. Everybody is just a piece of hardware, and sometimes, dating is no different as well. Or look around the magazines. 10 ways to lose weight, 15 hacks for better sex, whatever. Have you ever seen a headline "Improve your sensitivity, and emapthy." ? Because I sure as hell don't.

So it shouldn't come as a huge surprise that we view the opposite sex as means to satisfy our needs, and if it doesn't work, change it. Break up, get a new partner. Divorce. Click on a new video. Move on. Never try to fix or repair anything, throw away and get a new. This is how modernism and consumerism twists us.
We are just as guilty as falling to PMO as we are victims to our own age. And this is tough.

Anyhow, my suggestion to overcome objectification to start to value things as they are, and not by what can it do for you. This stands for people, and starts with YOU. Now we are talking self respect, which is an essential part of breaking free of PMO succesfully.

Fuck this, I continue...

So the matter of fact is, we have to realise that we actually crave more than sex. We want love, bonding, relationship, care, and so on. ANd we want to be valued as we are, and not by our achievements. This is no coincidence, and everything less than this, is just backing down.
I talk about porn. I talk about masturbation. And I talk about casual sex, which is really, nothing more than organic masturbation...

 

No, I completely believe you, EarthDragon. You described my own thoughts more eloquently than I could have put it.

I think love and compassion are the only remedies to this sort of objectification. We must connect with others, appreciate them, love them, have compassion for them. And in doing so they become subjects, they become humans, they become understandable to us because we recognize ourselves in them. And once we do that we could never use them for sexual gratification.

 

That's the name of the game. But I have a feeling that this is not just an option...it is a must, if we want to leave PMO behind. Easier said than done, but if its necessary, than no use trying to avoid our fate.
We gotta do, what we gotta do.

 

Oh yes, completely a must.

I find compassion meditation to help a lot in this.

[video=youtube;YjeDh2xw4Qw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjeDh2xw4Qw[/video]

Just replace the Buddha with a figure from your own religion, or a glowing