Masturbation while in a relationship - is it okay?

[Warfman]

I am not sure that I want to communicate all of my fantasies to my fiancé. They are not exactly healthy and I want them to be a thing of my past. Part of my past includes being cu*kolded and that trauma has left me with cu*kold fantasies. I am afraid to share that for fear that bringing it up could lead to that fantasy becoming a reality. I did bring that up very early in our relationship, as something that I am trying to heal from. My addiction might want to re-experience that kind of trauma, but I want to move away from it.

In my experience, experiencing trauma can lead to pain shopping/searching for that same feeling of the trauma. Almost like a way of reminding us that it was a real event, maybe it's linked to fight or flight, but for me, I've often struggled wanting to relive traumas (even though ultimately I don't really want to). But it's a way of reminding myself of what hurt I experienced, it's hard to let go sometimes, and I can remember many times where I've started to feel I'm moving toward the "acceptance phase" and had that impulse to remind myself of the pain, it's a struggle at times to let go, because it sometimes feels like you are letting go of the control of being hurt again. I wonder if this experience you have had is related to that at all?

Sometimes it's hard to let go, but your fiance is not that same person. I'm sorry for your pain through that experience.

I avoid sex because MO is so much easier and because having sex triggers me

As far as MO, I wonder if you feel safer MOing, rather than risking being vulnerable with your fiancé and risking rejection or humiliation?

I want intimacy more often than we are having it. And I want my partner to be happy.

It seems very common, that as lives get busier with kids, jobs, activities, etc. Intimacy gets put on the back burner, having little ones around makes it difficult to even find the time to talk! Currently, my wife and i are in a phase where our toddler will just keep getting louder and louder if we are trying to talk to each other until we focus our attention on her. I remember my brother and his wife having the same experience. This is why I think now is a great time to talk about intimacy with her, express that you want to share more of it with her, that you desire to please her as well, and build a foundation of communication around this so that down the road you are able to navigate life's complexities better, rather than you secretly going to MO, and your fiance feeling alone, with kids screaming, dishes in the sink, etc.

 

[+TenPercent]

As far as MO, I wonder if you feel safer MOing, rather than risking being vulnerable with your fiancé and risking rejection or humiliation?

Absolutely. That is definitely part of it. (My hand can't reject me ) MO is guaranteed results, on demand, with minimal effort.

Thank you for your understanding and sharing your experience. The stresses of life are definitely a factor that hinders intimacy. And early trauma is something that I find myself drawn to relive - either to overcome it this time around - or to try to heal the buried pain. It's confusing, since I feel shame for feeling a desire to relive something that was so painful. And yes, it's all an effort (perhaps an unhealthy one) to gain control over the hurt that we have experienced.

I particularly appreciate your suggestion to express my desire to have more intimacy with my partner. That is something that I can work on and is far less scary than sharing all my inner fears and fantasies with her. It really is all about communication, but there are things that can't be taken back once they've been let out.

 

[+TenPercent]

Update:
My AP has been incredibly helpful as I am working through this re-evaluation.
I was aiming for sex on Saturday nights (my fiancé and I had come up with this plan) and MO once a week, only on Mondays.
My AP and I agreed this week to change MO to once every two weeks . . . a small improvement.
Now she has helped me to come to an agreement to hold out for a third week. And I can only MO next next Monday if we have sex this weekend.

Perhaps I will put off MO even further after that. If I can MO on Monday, that leaves me with less incentive to initiate sex over the weekend (my partner rarely / almost never initiates). So . . . we have removed the option to MO on Monday.
Also, if we do have sex this weekend (totally okay if it's on Friday or Sunday . . . totally okay to have sex anyway, really), then I really want to try to resist the urge to MO after. Much better if I can turn successful lovemaking into incentive to do it again the next week.

Maybe I can somehow keep pushing off MO into the future one week at a time. As an addict, I can't fathom giving it up forever. But it's clear that MO does nothing to help my fiancé and our relationship.

 

[Warfman]

Love this guy, I listened to this one this morning, and thought of you since you are currently in the wedding planning phase!

Jimmy, at one point had an affair, and he did the work to mend the relationship, I don't know his personal story, but his channel is devoted to relationships and helping people work on them. He's learned a lot and IMHO gives great advice and does it in a fun way with comedy added in.

Thought I'd share it for you.

 

[+TenPercent]

That was great! He packed a lot into 6 minutes!

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Love this guy, I listened to this one this morning, and thought of you since you are currently in the wedding planning phase!

Jimmy, at one point had an affair, and he did the work to mend the relationship, I don't know his personal story, but his channel is devoted to relationships and helping people work on them. He's learned a lot and IMHO gives great advice and does it in a fun way with comedy added in.

Thought I'd share it for you.

Love him too

 

[+TenPercent]

Interesting how impactful one success can be.
Despite triggers, the chaser effect and the decision with my AP that I can MO next Monday . . .

I have decided to hold off on MO until the end of the month!

Who knows, but hopefully this will lead to making love with my partner again and then maybe I'll go for another month . . .

I feel like I'm on the right track.

 

[terrible-chocolate]

i would say, it is only acceptable if your partner joins you. if youre doing it alone and sneaky like, thats basically cheating.

but if your gf is in bed with you and helping you...thats cool

 

[+TenPercent]

Hello Everyone!

Sadly, I have fallen back into my old patterns.

With everyone's support, I made it 36 days without masturbation and had sex with my partner three times in a period of 16 days.
Then, something came up, a weekend was missed, I slipped with masturbation.

What I think happened is this: With your support and encouragement, I was able to abstain from masturbation and to, instead, initiate sex with my partner. That was awesome. You guys were helping me to stay accountable. And I was beginning to associate orgasm with a healthy form of sexual intimacy. I was on the right track.

Then, I drifted. I thought I had it. I didn't need to check in on this thread and everyone here moved on as well.

But, after that slip with masturbation, my addict brain reverted right back to old patterns.
Now, I am back up to 16 days without masturbating to orgasm . . . but I have slipped almost every day with edging and have not had sex with my partner for almost 4 weeks.

HELP!!

Why am I drifting towards my addiction rather than get back on track with the goal of not masturbating and having sex with my partner? I think it's because I had struck off on my own.

I need accountability. I hope you guys (and gals) can help me. It seem almost silly, but having that accountability is what will give me that little nudge to initiate healthy intimacy instead of avoiding it.

I hope you can help me. Help us, really. My partner would definitely benefit as well.

 

[+TenPercent]

I am committing to no edging (a scary prospect but I must try!) and am on day 5 now.
I am also re-committing to no masturbation. None at all costs.

Perhaps a dubious luxury of some men, I just can't do it because I fall back into old patterns and I become more fixated on the next orgasm that I can get from masturbating rather than focusing on having healthy sexual intimacy with my partner.

My AP has encouraged me to try it for a year.

I really want to re-wire my brain to wanting sex, with my partner, rather than self-pleasuring.

And I think the only way to get there is if my only route to orgasm is dependent on having sex with my partner.

I hope I find a lot of support along the way. I will need it.

 

[KevinesKay]

My problem was actually not MB, but fantasy. By focusing on stopping MB, but allowing myself to fantasize, I was simply raising the toxicity level in my brain leading right back to higher level behaviors including MB

 

[+TenPercent]

"Each of us, regardless of individual circumstances, was now willing to go to any lengths, a day at a time, to stay unhooked. This decision was unilateral. It did not depend on the cooperation or lack of cooperation of our spouses, lovers or sex objects. We were willing to be available not to the next lover or new sexual fantasy, but to whatever might happen next within ourselves."
-S.L.A.A. Basic Text, Page 73

New fantasies, old fantasies, one more round of pleasuring myself (my 'next lover' is my hand, again, coupled with some fantasy) . . . I need to go to any lengths to stay unhooked.

 

[Warfman]

My problem was actually not MB, but fantasy. By focusing on stopping MB, but allowing myself to fantasize, I was simply raising the toxicity level in my brain leading right back to higher level behaviors including MB

I think this is a very important distinction, lust, most of the time predates the MO. There is a period of time where I don't think that was true for me. It was so automatic to go to PMO that it was pretty much an involuntary response, I remember times where I was struggling with bouts of anxiety and my mind would dart to PMO over and over until the anxiety subsided, it was such an engrained habit that I didn't even realize my mind would suggest it.. when I finally put together a month long streak, I couldn't help but laugh at myself when I had that response to anxiety, it felt so silly to me. But @+TenPercent it sounds like you are very much past that stage in handling things.

Though on the same subject, I wonder if a lot of your MO habit is somewhat the same as I'm saying. Especially when you start dwelling on the negative like what happened in the past and not feeling good enough. You go to fantasy/MO to cope with feeling inadequate or not good enough. That's the start of the cycle, when you start feeling that way, you need to put the biggest gap between yourself and MO as possible.

There are all sorts of good ways to create that gap, like personal affirmations, but ultimately only you can decide what works for you.

 

[used19]

Late to respond here but I read your thread and one thing that sticks out to me is so much focus own the end goal of an orgasm - both with mo or sex. The emphasis is on feeling good, not on connection. But when the focus is on connection, namely emotional, then the physical connection tends to follow quite naturally. My husband and I have noticed that we connect so much better physically after we have really connected deeply - be it a long talk or a heated discussion where we really shared deep feelings. You may be able to bolster your strength by not focusing on the number of times of sex to get an orgasm, but work on connecting more to your partner. In our case we agreed that there will be zero MO in our marriage from either person. That decision was born largely from my pain, but we both had kind of an eye opening moment that we realized we really didn’t want each other to be experiencing lust and orgasm to anyone other than each other. Not everyone feels that way but we decided that if our end goal is a deep, life-long marriage, then neither one of us can be giving such a private part of ourselves away to someone else, even to an image on a screen or to the thought of another.

 

[+TenPercent]

Late to respond here but I read your thread and one thing that sticks out to me is so much focus own the end goal of an orgasm - both with mo or sex. The emphasis is on feeling good, not on connection. But when the focus is on connection, namely emotional, then the physical connection tends to follow quite naturally. My husband and I have noticed that we connect so much better physically after we have really connected deeply - be it a long talk or a heated discussion where we really shared deep feelings. You may be able to bolster your strength by not focusing on the number of times of sex to get an orgasm, but work on connecting more to your partner.

Thank you for responding! I really appreciate your perspective.
You're right. It does sound like I am over-focused on the orgasms. Ironically, I started this relationship after months of 'hard mode' and went into it hoping to practice karezza - non-orgasmic sexual intimacy. Making love is SO much more than achieving orgasm. But . . . MO is all about achieving orgasm.

My MO is robbing my partner of (or cheating her out of) the physical and sexual intimacy that we both want and need. Our relationship, other than being practically sexless, is very strong. And I do feel more inclined to make love with her after a good heart to heart. The one thing that's getting in the way is my addiction to MO and edging. That's why it's got to stop. So that after the next time we're feeling a deep emotional connection, it will naturally lead to sexual intimacy.

In our case we agreed that there will be zero MO in our marriage from either person. That decision was born largely from my pain, but we both had kind of an eye opening moment that we realized we really didn’t want each other to be experiencing lust and orgasm to anyone other than each other. Not everyone feels that way but we decided that if our end goal is a deep, life-long marriage, then neither one of us can be giving such a private part of ourselves away to someone else, even to an image on a screen or to the thought of another.

Thank you for this, too. I love it. The word 'zero' is powerful. That's what I want. Especially with our marriage beginning in just a few months. I have had more than my share of MO. There's no place for that in the marriage that I want. Its not the man that I want to be.

 

[used19]

Thank you for responding! I really appreciate your perspective.
You're right. It does sound like I am over-focused on the orgasms. Ironically, I started this relationship after months of 'hard mode' and went into it hoping to practice karezza - non-orgasmic sexual intimacy. Making love is SO much more than achieving orgasm. But . . . MO is all about achieving orgasm.

My MO is robbing my partner of (or cheating her out of) the physical and sexual intimacy that we both want and need. Our relationship, other than being practically sexless, is very strong. And I do feel more inclined to make love with her after a good heart to heart. The one thing that's getting in the way is my addiction to MO and edging. That's why it's got to stop. So that after the next time we're feeling a deep emotional connection, it will naturally lead to sexual intimacy.



Thank you for this, too. I love it. The word 'zero' is powerful. That's what I want. Especially with our marriage beginning in just a few months. I have had more than my share of MO. There's no place for that in the marriage that I want. Its not the man that I want to be.

Remember for it to be a really powerful agreement, it’s got to be both ways too. She can’t be off doing it either, even if it isn’t an addiction for her. (And this is not about casting fault onto the SO of an addict, this is about having a relationship where all aspects of sexual activity are not secret and are agreed to by each side). There is a lot of power in both people in the marriage valuing the sexual experience as something to really only be shared with each other. I’m not trying to turn this into something super religious by any means (even though I am a believer). I’ve just really come to realize how much MO causes one to really only focus inward, to dehumanize oneself and ones partner too. Even if we take away the screen element, and it’s just fantasy, it’s still making us check out and not include our partners in a vital aspect of who we are. It’s hiding such an important piece of ourselves and creating a bar our partners will never meet. My husband and I both get really angry about how MO is pushed as some totally healthy thing. But our experience is that at least for our marriage (in which we both just really want to be cherished as the most important person by just one person), that narrative has been really damaging because it is selfish and that self-directed focus tends to stick around in lots of ways that heck everything up.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Remember for it to be a really powerful agreement, it’s got to be both ways too. She can’t be off doing it either, even if it isn’t an addiction for her. (And this is not about casting fault onto the SO of an addict, this is about having a relationship where all aspects of sexual activity are not secret and are agreed to by each side). There is a lot of power in both people in the marriage valuing the sexual experience as something to really only be shared with each other. I’m not trying to turn this into something super religious by any means (even though I am a believer). I’ve just really come to realize how much MO causes one to really only focus inward, to dehumanize oneself and ones partner too. Even if we take away the screen element, and it’s just fantasy, it’s still making us check out and not include our partners in a vital aspect of who we are. It’s hiding such an important piece of ourselves and creating a bar our partners will never meet. My husband and I both get really angry about how MO is pushed as some totally healthy thing. But our experience is that at least for our marriage (in which we both just really want to be cherished as the most important person by just one person), that narrative has been really damaging because it is selfish and that self-directed focus tends to stick around in lots of ways that heck everything up.

I regret teaching my children that porn was damaging and wrong but masturbation was a normal, self exploration. I wish I had taught them that masturbation as children is a normal self exploration that like thumb sucking has no place in adulthood. It causes harm. I completely flipped my belief on it. From thinking my parents and the church were just old fashioned and wrong to marveling at how they had it right.

 

[Warfman]

I don't know if you have read No More Mr Nice Guy or not @+TenPercent but it might be a good one to read.

I started a post on a thread of yours in the off topic section but don't have enough time to post it.

I think there's some good content in that book that may help you. Especially around validation, feeling good enough, acceptance, etc. And how you may be responding with MO and intimacy with your fiance.

Worth checking out if you haven't already.

 

[Sad_wife]

I read the OP and some of the comments. I used to be of the opinion that M is okay in a relationship. We are told it’s healthy etc. Now after everything I read I have 180ed on this. This is why. 1st off it is not a common thing that everyone does. There are tribes that didn’t even have a word for it as the idea was foreign to them. When scientists wanted to collect semen samples they had to teach them. And even then all samples came back with vaginal secretions mixed in. So one could say it not natural and a misguided myth brought on by the sex industry. Now I will say I have a unique perspective. Growing up in the sex positive area I am very sex positive. New to all the research. I am a Pagan. And don’t think sex or being horny is sinful. I think it’s a beautiful gift. I myself have had a huge M addiction that I only now realized. Even tho I didn’t use porn. It was bad as a teen and young adult. So much so that when I was with actual partners I felt nothing or pain for inter corse and clitoral stimulation would take 45 minutes plus also I would have to be fully checked out and never present.

So how much is too much and when? From what I read over so many books and research studies it’s ejaculation that men need. Which if there is no P or M happens at night. When you are in a relationship it happens with your partner. Exploring yourself in puberty may be healthy. But kept to a minimum no more then once a week but 1-2x a month is what should be aimed for with no visual stimulation. That is when single.

in a relationship anyone taking care of themselves diminishes natural pheromones. Every time you or your partner flys solo your body sends signals that you got some. This depletes the pheromones put off to attract your partner’s attention. So it will affect the drive to have sex with your partner even in moderation.
I would M knowing that my husband had and Thinking I wasn’t getting any. Therefore his pull for the higher dopamine reward for porn got higher. And the cycle continued. When we both abstain from PM and try to go 7days no PMO is hard. Really hard. We only made it 2days. But we restart and try to aim for that week of simmering in the hornyness because 1 hes never had to. And 2 trying not to is really fun when kissing and dry hummping get you going like a teen.

I would ask her if she is doing M. If she is it may be something you both should quit.

 

[Sad_wife]

I regret teaching my children that porn was damaging and wrong but masturbation was a normal, self exploration. I wish I had taught them that masturbation as children is a normal self exploration that like thumb sucking has no place in adulthood. It causes harm. I completely flipped my belief on it. From thinking my parents and the church were just old fashioned and wrong to marveling at how they had it right.

my kids are still kids. My daughter is the oldest of 10. I want to make sure they know just how damaging it is. But an occasional exploration shouldn’t make you guilty or ashamed. I know without my guidance especially growing up in this culture it will be hard. Not sure what exactly to tell them. Is 1-2x a month okay as the newer research suggests? Or just try not to do it at all? What’s your insight?