Masturbation without porn

It was never a dream of mine to become an "expert" on PMO but after years of failed attempts and relapses, I think I have valuable information to share about my recovery. Like many of you, I've tried every possible method ie; hard mode, light mode and everything in-between to combat my addiction and every time I ended back in the same place. Here are two things that have worked for me:

1. If you're a true addict, meaning that if you have tried quitting before and have experienced withdrawal symptoms like, nausea, headaches intense urges and a complete inability to think and function after a few days or weeks; DO NOT go cold turkey. I can tell you from someone who has failed dozens of times (honestly probably 50 real attempts) that if you're an addict, you may make it a few weeks but you will eventually relapse. Instead, remove P on day 1. This is an easy obtainable goal to keep track of because you either did or did not watch P. (this includes explicit social media and erotic stories) This needs be eliminated immediately with no excuses (if you make excuses you are not prepared or ready to address your issues). Try and reduce M and fantasy but don't try so hard that you feel guilty if you do because it's all part of the process.

2. After a month when you have gained control of your P addiction, you need to remove M and fantasy completely. I know that everyone is googling Can i still M without P? And the reason people do this is because they are still so addicted that they are looking for further excuses but the FACT is that your addiction to M and O are likely stronger than that of P despite what people say. For a long time i thought that P was the only real problem but it's simply not true for an addict. The truth is that you're addicted to DOPAMINE after O. Mental Fantasy is very strong and works as a very suitable replacement for your addicted brain. Eliminating P is like ordering a milkshake everyday and no longer adding whipped cream. It's a great way to start but NOT a solution. So, the reality is, that if you are a real addict, M and O are more of a problem then people claim on this site. I know its hard to accept that because other people can M and O and live normal lives but if your an addict you will never be able to do this (or at least not for a long time).

So, step 1: eliminate P immediately. After a month of continuing to fight urges but not feel guilty if you M or O, eliminate M and O (except for sex if in a relationship).

step 2: Eliminate O from M in your life completely. Many people go to a casino and have fun and enjoy their experience but if an addict goes once, even after years of recovery they will likely be right back at it. I think as soon as you accept (if you're an addict) that your life is different and that you will not be able to enjoy those temptations anymore you will be happier. And by the way, you're not missing much! (draining energy, wasting time, living in a self medicated state) the only reason people search around for " can I still M without p" is because their addicted brain is literally typing those words.

Achieve Dopamine from exercise, diet and other healthy activities and accept that P, M and O ( through M) are not part of your life and its not something you need to be happy.
DISCLAIMER: if you're not a true addict and you feel you can manage your M then good for you but don't jeopardize someone else's progress by telling them to justify M.

 

@Longtime27 Thanks for your reply and for sharing your experiences. No, I’m not suggesting eliminating O completely from your life, only from M and P. I’m married so eliminated O is not possible and having a healthy sex life is important. However, I think it's not a bad idea to not instigate sex for a period of time and do it if she desires it but don't over indulge.

When I would go hard mode I noticed a pattern where I would make it a week with no P and M, then have sex and literally be M-ing within an hour again. Essentially, O from any vehicle opens up the flood gates again so I would go on auto pilot and relapse without no mental control and I would essentially have to start over again.

This is the reason I advocate quitting P first (for a month) and continuing to M without judgement. I had foolishly thought at one point that if I just eliminated P I would be ok but I realized later that it really is the M-O combo for dopamine that is the most addictive and what I was the most dependent on. But it's MUCH easier if you remove P first.

I unfortunately can't advise or comment on anyone who is living a single life. But part of my recovery was due to my wifes dissatisfaction with me and the sad thing is that even with a lot of effort it still took me 7 years to get to where I am now. The addiction would always pull me back in no matter hard I tried or how much i knew it hurt her, not to mention, embarrass me! You would think one "talk" with your wife would set you right it but it didn't.

So my final point is, if you can M-O with or without fantasy and you feel ok and healthy, then that's great but there's another level of addiction and if someone is there like i was, stay away from M-O completely but yes, O from sex is ok as long as you avoid the dreaded chaser effect.

Ps: I mean listen, i would spend hours googling is M ok? is fantasy ok? is m once a week ok? and the answer is that for me, it's simply not ok because of my history of relapsing. I think the addicted brain looks for any way back in ( ive googled many funny things looking for an excuse to M. But it I was a gambling addict and i googled is it ok to gamble on the weekends, would that make sense?


So again my advice continues to be immediately eliminate P and then after a month eliminate O from M and don't look back. But if someone can control their M to a reasonable amount without P type of fantasy I envy you.

 

@jackless I agree with you. I used to think to myself, other people get to masturbate daily why does it have to be problematic for me? Maybe if I work at it I can control it and find a balance? But once a week quickly turns into once a day....So I simply remember that that voice is the addicted part of my brain looking for excuses. I also suffer from major physical withdrawals, mood swings, concentration issues and every time i would quit i would say wow, im never going through the again.. low and behold the addicted brain makes excuses. One thing that was helpful for me was having my wife put a screen time passcode on my phone. I thought it would be a bigger deal but she simply made up a code and we never talked about it again.

 

Having a wife does not prevent an addict from pursuing their goal. The addiction is not about having an O from satisfying love with your spouse its usually about self medicating to feel ok. This is why most PMO addicts often have difficulty in the real world.

 

Urges are unavoidable. But I've found that if you get off your phone/computer and go outside, they dissipate. I think opening up a computer/phone triggers your brain into "searching" for P. But if you remove the stimulus, the brain kinda stops trying to get you to relapse

 

Hi, thanks for sharing your story. Believe me, I understand how frustrating it can be when you're married. What often happens is you end up resenting your wife for wanting sex because you're trying to abstain and it's a really challenging dynamic to satisfy her natural needs. I envy those who are honest with their spouse and are able to knock the ball out of the park on their first NOFAP journey - but for me, having relapsed so many times, it's too difficult to keep apologizing. So, I decided that hard mode was not for me and I tried an experiment by removing problems one by one.

First on day 1, NO more P no matter what. So for you, I would say drop the subs, non-naked pics and chatrooms, even i it's a bit less intense then internet P, it's still keeping the addiction neuropathways alive. After 30 days of allowing natural urge masturbation (fantasy or not), you will be much more equipped to quit M because your vision of the future will be sharper and success will seem attainable. But you must stop with the chat rooms etc first. I hope that you find the happiness that you deserve and I hope this method works for you as it did for me. Now, I'm feeling better than ever (and btw, feeling better than ever to me means accepting pain and difficult emotions as well) it doesn/t just mean happy.. theres a happiness in feeling what I've been avoiding..

 

I think by mid- july you will discover what your true addiction is. For me, it was drilled into me (from this site and others) that P was 90% of the problem and that M and O was less but that was in fact false in my case. I was (not easily) but doable able to go 30 days without P. And this is coming from someone who watched a lot of high speed internet fetish porn for hours. After 30 days of continuing to M without "shame" but not having P in my life, I realized that fantasy is a substitute to P and causing equal amounts of harm, so I learned that P,M fantasy and O were all individual problems. Even after 30 days of no p, I had horrible withdrawals just from not M and O because I've become used to a lot of dopamine - i imagine your chat rooms etc are a big dopamine impact and removing that will be difficult.

So, its very individual but in your case, if your spending more time in the rooms etc than you are masturbating you might find that the tough part of your journey is the first leg ie; quitting the sites. But It's simply too much to quit everything at once. So, assuming that M and O are continued addictions for you even after losing the chat rooms, in mid july- try and quit M altogether. I take ZERO religious or moral view on M but I wanted to turn my life out and not in - if that makes sense. And I wasn't able to control M moderately so for me it was better just to do away with it completely.

The chat rooms aren't worth it, man. you get to create an image/identity about yourself that you can project but once you're free of the addiction, you can start really being that person. your self confidence will skyrocket. You deserve to be free of this.

 

I'm here for you. First things first, no more pursuing sexually oriented internet behavior. But hey, you're free to fantasize about it (if necessary) and M for 30 days so no pressure, you got this. After 30 you won't even want to go back.

 

Hi all, checking in on this thread @DrHenryJekyll, how have you been doing? I had a setback a few weeks ago. It was a bummer and really disappointing but I'm getting myself back on track.