Maybe its all a lie

[workingharder]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

 

[nomo]

Nofap is about not watching porn and making positive changes in your life. The simple act of no PMO doesn't change a thing, the person needs to do the hard work of changing the problems that made them run to porn to escape the issues in their life. That's why you find people here who have been PMO free, but they don't feel any change, they haven't done the hard work.

The benefits of SR to me is a myth. If psychologically SR makes you feel better, then do it, but I doubt SR feels better than a well deserved orgasm. I love my orgasms and think they are one of the best pleasures in life that I can have, why would I give that up? That being said, I do believe that having sex with a partner is better than MO, so I have cut back on MO and since I started Nofap, I have been appreciating the sex and intimacy with my wife much more.

FYI - I love to stay healthy, go to the gym, etc. Practicing SR would not improve my performance or energy level. I find a good nights sleep is the best source of energy that I can find, and I sleep great after sex.

 

[LetsBeLovely87]

Nofap is about not watching porn and making positive changes in your life. The simple act of no PMO doesn't change a thing, the person needs to do the hard work of changing the problems that made them run to porn to escape the issues in their life. That's why you find people here who have been PMO free, but they don't feel any change, they haven't done the hard work.

The benefits of SR to me is a myth. If psychologically SR makes you feel better, then do it, but I doubt SR feels better than a well deserved orgasm. I love my orgasms and think they are one of the best pleasures in life that I can have, why would I give that up? That being said, I do believe that having sex with a partner is better than MO, so I have cut back on MO and since I started Nofap, I have been appreciating the sex and intimacy with my wife much more.

FYI - I love to stay healthy, go to the gym, etc. Practicing SR would not improve my performance or energy level. I find a good nights sleep is the best source of energy that I can find, and I sleep great after sex.

Orgasms (≠ejaculation) with someone (your wife for example) is complety different to a orgasm with nobory (isolated MO)

While making it with other person could be one of the best sensations of life, making it with nobody, isolated MO, can be one of the worst feelings of life

My take is, if you are single, do the 100% no pmo, because it will be good for you and you will not experience that shit feeling of isolated MO, or worse when involves P. If you have a partner I recommend tantra, you can will have O but not E(ejaculation)

 

[Atlanticus]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

It's a fair enough question in general, though 1) air-masturbating is hardly reproduction, 2) it's hard to know how "healthy" others are, or not, and 3) I like to keep a lookout for addictions inspiring rationalizations that support of resuming the very thing one has broken free of. The key, it seems to me, is the "healthy" part. There might be conditions under which an occasional bit of M cannot hurt me (alone on an uninhabited island, stuck in solitary confinement, your spouse is gone for months...), but as a former full-time PMOer that would be even harder to imagine. So... like you, I feel less "vulnerable" today but certainly not out of the woods completely. Therefore, I continue to try to _replace_ the urges with something more real, more constructive, more interpersonal, and happiness-provoking.. rather than sweet-talking/smart-mouthing myself into making a U-turn.

 

[What goes Down must come Up]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

They are not extremely healthy. They’re compromised. They live in spite of the crutch. They are nowhere near their full potential. And really, gym goers? The gym is one of the easiest things you can do. I don’t know who came up with this concept of working out being difficult.

why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

What is a healthy form of orgasm in your mind?

 

[What goes Down must come Up]

The benefits of SR to me is a myth. If psychologically SR makes you feel better, then do it, but I doubt SR feels better than a well deserved orgasm. I love my orgasms and think they are one of the best pleasures in life that I can have, why would I give that up?

Apparently you’re content with being mediocre and living a mundane life. That’s ok man, not everyone can be special.

 

[nomo]

Apparently you’re content with being mediocre and living a mundane life. That’s ok man, not everyone can be special.

I would not consider myself mediocre and while in the depths of PMO I was definitely leading a mundane life and knew it. I quit porn and put in place action plans to make my life better and less mundane. So far so good, the results are nice and the direction is positive.
Absolutely not everyone can be special, but the ones who are doing their best are fine by me. Life is hard and if you are lucky you will get a long time to work on it.
Hope you enjoy the journey as much as I do.

 

[Deleted Account]

Nofap is about not watching porn and making positive changes in your life. The simple act of no PMO doesn't change a thing, the person needs to do the hard work of changing the problems that made them run to porn to escape the issues in their life. That's why you find people here who have been PMO free, but they don't feel any change, they haven't done the hard work.

The benefits of SR to me is a myth. If psychologically SR makes you feel better, then do it, but I doubt SR feels better than a well deserved orgasm. I love my orgasms and think they are one of the best pleasures in life that I can have, why would I give that up? That being said, I do believe that having sex with a partner is better than MO, so I have cut back on MO and since I started Nofap, I have been appreciating the sex and intimacy with my wife much more.

FYI - I love to stay healthy, go to the gym, etc. Practicing SR would not improve my performance or energy level. I find a good nights sleep is the best source of energy that I can find, and I sleep great after sex.

NoFap is about quitting compulsive behaviors. That is, if you can fap without escalating into porn, good for you. Most addicts can't. To be honest, I think M to be morally wrong. But it is up to you how to live your life. Plus, ethical decisions shouldn't be dictated upon anybody. We may agree to disagree. This world you be lonely and shallow if everybody thought the same.

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

NoFap didn't zero my social anxiety, but diminished it a lot. Before it, my heart raced even by leaving my apartment out to the streets. Now it never does due to it.
Friend, think it a little. We're all people giving our free weekend time to preach a practice that is certainly not comfortable. PMOing is pleasurable, sure, but takes the hell out of anyone. Why is so? Because NoFap changed ourselves deeply in a positive way.
I could be reading a book or a manga, but no, I'm posting in this forum for the sake of you only. This is because I, and many others, were in a similar position once. Give it a try. It is by all means hard but simple. Take care of your well-being. Don't watch porn.

 

[Deleted Account]

I think there are too many out there who want to tell you "the truth" about masturbation, sexuality and everything. I'm sure there's no one-size-fits-all solution to these questions. No two people are the same.
It's clearly not correct that masturbation is harmful (I know they will cruzify me for that, but simply that's what science says). But not to masturbate isn't harmful either.
You may decide for yourself what fits to you, what makes you more happy, more content...

 

[Icewarrior]

I think there are too many out there who want to tell you "the truth" about masturbation, sexuality and everything. I'm sure there's no one-size-fits-all solution to these questions. No two people are the same.
It's clearly not correct that masturbation is harmful (I know they will cruzify me for that, but simply that's what science says). But not to masturbate isn't harmful either.
You may decide for yourself what fits to you, what makes you more happy, more content...

Lust is harmful. We all know this. How is it harmful? Because it is selfish. Try asking yourself this question: Is masturbation an act of selfless love or selfish lust?
Next question: Where does the energy come from to feed those sensations of pleasure during masturbation? What if it comes from our life essence?

 

[Deleted Account]

You made two good points. If like to answer the following:

Lust is harmful. We all know this. How is it harmful? Because it is selfish. Try asking yourself this question: Is masturbation an act of selfless love or selfish lust?

in what way it should be harmful per se? Certainly masturbation is selfish lust, if you do it alone. But in my opinion this, masturbation, is one of the least problematic ways to enjoy lust and to be selfish.

Next question: Where does the energy come from to feed those sensations of pleasure during masturbation? What if it comes from our life essence?

What exactly do you mean by energy. If you are talking about physical energy I won't agree. If you are talking about mental energy I'd say it depends. On how and why and how often you do it. If masturbation is only done to distract yourself from serious problems I'd agree it is problematic, but not by itself.

 

[Icewarrior]

You made two good points. If like to answer the following: in what way it should be harmful per se? Certainly masturbation is selfish lust, if you do it alone. But in my opinion this, masturbation, is one of the least problematic ways to enjoy lust and to be selfish.

What exactly do you mean by energy. If you are talking about physical energy I won't agree. If you are talking about mental energy I'd say it depends. On how and why and how often you do it. If masturbation is only done to distract yourself from serious problems I'd agree it is problematic, but not by itself.

Lust is degeneration. Is love degeneration?

By “energy” I mean physical and mental. The sensations and images produced during masturbation need energy from our body and mind in order to be produced and experienced. And of course the physical activity of masturbating needs physical and mental energy - the intention to masturbate and the act of masturbating.

 

[Deleted Account]

Lust is degeneration. Is love degeneration?

But why should it be degeneration? It's simply our biology. It's needed. Nobody would have sex without lust.

By “energy” I mean physical and mental. The sensations and images produced during masturbation need energy from our body and mind in order to be produced and experienced. And of course the physical activity of masturbating needs physical and mental energy - the intention to masturbate and the act of masturbating.

The amount of energy is comparably small. Like @workingharder said, there are many people who do masturbate and are healthy. The vast majority I guess.

 

[Icewarrior]

But why should it be degeneration? It's simply our biology. It's needed. Nobody would have sex without lust.


The amount of energy is comparably small. Like @workingharder said, there are many people who do masturbate and are healthy. The vast majority I guess.

What if to learn how to have sex without lust is one of the greatest challenges we face as humans?

In the short term those folks may be healthy, however in the long term?

 

[Deleted Account]

What if to learn how to have sex without lust is one of the greatest challenges we face as humans?

Hmmm, maybe I like this thought. How would it feel like to have sex without lust? I imagine to just giving and receiving love and good feelings for/to the other person one has sex with, not being forced to anything...
Do you even think it's possible to masturbate without lust?

 

[Icewarrior]

Making love, not making lust!

In the case of masturbation I don’t think it’s possible to masturbate without lust. Why? Because it’s only for our own “pleasure,” whereas making love is, of course, an activity that involves two people. It requires us to give to another, to consider another’s feelings, to recognize their presence. Love flows between two people.

 

[Sleeperhead]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

The majority of men view porn, but the difference is that some do so more than others. There are guys that do it 3 times a day and then there are guys that that do it once every week or two. The more you orgasm the more of an inpact it has on your overall energy levels.

It is scientifically proven that orgasm causes negative effects rise in prolactin, rise in GABA, low dopamine, reduction in androgen receptors. It takes 2 weeks to fully recover from these effects, so if you are ejaculating too many times in the space of 2 weeks what you have is an increase in anxiety, low mood, depression, tiredness, brain fog and a lack of sharpness.

In the case of the guys who only ejaculate once a week the effect of the orgasm hangover is not so great, they might lose an edge that they would have had otherwise, but their levels are not impacted too greatly.

 

[Deleted Account]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

I actually read through many of these types of posts myself a few days ago, and I have to admit that I too felt very discouraged. I mean, who wants to live addiction free, only to wrestle with anxiety and depression for a year or more? From an outsider standpoint, it seems counterproductive. You do all this work to eliminate something that makes you miserable, only to feel just as if not more miserable in the long term...

Another thing that annoys me is when users swear by the mythical 90-day reboot, or the cold shower routine, or the nonsensical notion of semen retention (all while promising "super powers" after a prolonged period of time), and yet they themselves haven't lasted a week without relapse. It almost feels like they're holding us to a standard they don't hold themselves.

In any case, I completely understand your frustration, because I also share it. I'm only a month or so into my journey (not just from eliminating porn, but also social media and excessive gaming), so my own recovery has barely begun. However, I too wrestle with depression, and have done so for most of my life. Remember, the modern Western world is very hectic and expensive to live in, so the stress may not be exclusively due to porn use, but a myriad of other factors that exacerbate the addiction.

As for people appearing healthy, all I can say is that looks can be deceiving. Nofap wouldn't have such a large user base if excessive porn and masturbation was innocuous. We've all come to regret it, and so we have to learn to trust our own experiences.

In the end, I've had enough orgasm hangovers to know how much misery porn use causes. I don't want to experience that feeling anymore, or the fatigue and loss of motivation I've struggled with.

 

[ShutOffValve]

Lately. ive been seeing so many people writing about how theyve been PMO free for months (sometimes even more than a year) and still have social anxiety and stress - depression problems. as well as fatigue.
My question is, i definitely feel less “vulnerable” to all the down side effects of masturbation and pornography but how does that explain the millions of people who do watch pornography and masturbate and are extremely healthy - energized gym goers etc. at some point why should someone not introduce a healthy form of orgasm, I mean thats why we are here to reproduce?

After you live life for a few decades, you realize that nobody really gets away with anything. Non-reproductive sex will eventually bite us all in the ass. It expresses itself in subtle ways at the beginning, then, all of a sudden in catastrophes. Nervousness. Not going for that thing you wanted. Not getting on the plane. Not noticing subtle signals in the environment. Not having that extra 4% of energy required to be #1 instead of #5. Not being able to contemplate Spirit or God clearly. Not being able to think clearly when it would have gotten you decades ahead. All these little things add up. Every wonder about the guys who "did all the right things" yet never became rich and powerful? You can be certain he wasted his seed. The little things add up like interest on a 30 year loan, then suddenly you realize that there is a crushing debt you can never repay. Or, you can do SR and reboot and heal yourself from all your accumulated sins.

 

[goodnice 2.0]

After you live life for a few decades, you realize that nobody really gets away with anything. Non-reproductive sex will eventually bite us all in the ass. It expresses itself in subtle ways at the beginning, then, all of a sudden in catastrophes. Nervousness. Not going for that thing you wanted. Not getting on the plane. Not noticing subtle signals in the environment. Not having that extra 4% of energy required to be #1 instead of #5. Not being able to contemplate Spirit or God clearly. Not being able to think clearly when it would have gotten you decades ahead. All these little things add up. Every wonder about the guys who "did all the right things" yet never became rich and powerful? You can be certain he wasted his seed. The little things add up like interest on a 30 year loan, then suddenly you realize that there is a crushing debt you can never repay. Or, you can do SR and reboot and heal yourself from all your accumulated sins.

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