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Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by WantsToBelieve, Oct 12, 2017.
Guess when the sex happened.
I was having such a good night.
Then it all fell apart.
I'm supposed to leave him now. I said one more lie.
I can't do it.
So now he's going to think it's okay.
But yes, thank you for the hugs.
Is it too late to do a consequence?
Of course I forgot to list lying about M on the boundaries list.
I listed lying about P. Consequence for that is I leave.
So it's my fault this happened. It should've been on the list. So I'd know what to do.
I asked him before we went to sleep what he wanted the consequence to be.
He calls it a punishment still.
He wants me to come up with one.
I don't know how to get through to him that it's different. I've explained it a million times.
It's a punishment if I'M the one enforcing it.
It's a consequence if he's taking responsibility and being accountable and HOLDING himself accountable.
A direct consequence for his actions that he knows will happen.
He doesn't want to. After all this time. He still wants ME to be the one controlling this.
I can't do it.
I'm going to tell him tonight that I can't be his AP anymore.
I have to take care of ME.
Don't blame yourself. I simply put lying in general means I'm gone.
Consequences you have control over, i.e. sleeping in a separate bed from him if he lies.
I shouldn't have blamed myself, I know. I'm just so anxious right now.
But he'd see sleeping on the couch as a punishment.
Do I just let him call them punishments?
I don't want to be seen as the 'punisher'.
I want him to take responsibility and face the consequences of his actions.
Is that too much to expect after so long of trying it his way?
No, dont let him call them punishments. Jak and I actually last week in therapy talked about consequences versus punishments. My therapist even talked about it, and it can be a hard thing to distinguish, but I think punishments are more vindictive whereas consequences are more about letting someone know they did something wrong and you are taking actions to protect yourself.
I.e. if Jak lies I leave with Baby A because I am protecting myself and our son against growing up in an environment where one parent lies and watches the marriage crumble, and I don't want our son learning that his mom won't stand up for herself. So to me him lying one more time means I leave because that's a consequence to not respecting me. Not a punishment.
This sounds sort of masochistic... Like... Idk... Asking for a punishment?
And doing m to get it??
Am I reading this wrong?
I'll show him your explanation later. Thanks Anna
He actually just texted me. He said that with his new work schedule he wants to check in daily instead of weekly.
That's another thing I didn't explain here.
He told me Christmas Day that his work schedule would be changing.
4 X 10-hour days instead of 5 X 8-hour days. Working either Monday,Thursday,Friday,Saturday OR Monday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday. 9:30 to 8 PM.
It pissed me off. A lot.
Much more alone time for him, and weeknights/Saturdays alone for me.
I hate being alone.
This will be hard.
My theory is that he thinks the more guilty he feels for hurting me, the less likely it is he will PMO.
So he thinks calling it a 'punishment' will make him feel guilty enough to change the behavior.
I know for a fact it's quite the opposite.
But no one can explain that to him. He's got to figure it out on his own.
I dealt with the same thing
Guilt does not drive this train home.
I used homemade chips to encourage forward. Like 7,14,30,45,60 etc
I had to do them a little more frequently because I wanted him to be Surprised when he got them, never knowing what days... And if he relapsed, he had to give them Back.
And I'd make new ones on different days.. 10,20,30etc so he just Wouldn't know!
It really motivated him.
He put the recent one iin his wallet... He Loved getting them!
(he gets them farther apart now)
But they got him moving in the beginning...
You have to decide for yourself if you think he's truly in recovery or if he's just doing this for you. If he isn't truly serious about recovery you need to consider if you should be in the relationship. Only you can decide that. On another note, you said FANOS was useful. I recommend doing it daily. If that's too much, text each other a daily sobriety check in. (I do S in my FANOS too. It can stand for struggles.)
I've never heard this definition and I have to say I don't understand it. I do get that you don't want to be the one controlling this. You want him to step up and he should.
I'm not great at boundaries. But they are necessary sometimes and I read a book that helped me understand a bit better. You are correct, consequences aren't to punish him but it isn't to force him to change either. Boundaries and consequences are to protect you. Therefore, if x happens, I will do x. My personal belief is that the person with the boundary should set the consequence. Secondly it should only be a consquence that person is willing and able to follow through with.
The book I read is Boundaries in Marriage but I don't usually recommend it because 1. It's religious based and that doesn't work for everyone. 2. It did seem to be focused way too much on the punishment side of things. I much, much prefer the book Hold Me Tight, about emotionally focused therapy. My husband and I are working with an EFT trained therapist and I cannot recommend it enough. It's amazing. The goal is helping the couple cut through their negative patterns (one partner gets angry when they actually feel hurt underneath it all and the other partner withdraws when they actually fear the loss of the relationship) and get back to a place of love and connection. In contrast, the boundaries and consequences thing, while necessary sometimes, felt much more punitive and I didn't like it.
Sorry you’re dealing with this. I’m in a very similar situation with the lack of motivation on his part and struggling w appropriate consequences. It’s frustrating to say the least. Since I realize that I can’t enforce a consequence on him..and don’t want to..what I have done in the past is I’ve slept on the couch bc then it’s a consequence to him but not his punishment. If that makes sense? The consequence I have difficulty with is no sex bc then I am suffering and I know I might not be able to follow through with that.
I think it’s time we start to focus on us though! Figuring out what we need to do to be happy in all this. Really I’m speaking for myself but since you are in a pretty similar place as I am...I’d be happy to share and bounce ideas around if you want .
Hang in there! Stay healthy and plan for an awesome 2018!
I guess that's exactly what I meant in the definition I gave, about him being willing and able to follow through with the specific consequence.
I don't want to force him to do a consequence that is only for my comfort.
'Punishments' to me have always been a message saying "You didn't do what I wanted you to do, so now you have to do something you don't want to do in order to pay for it." Kind of like a parent would have to do.
'Consequences' is more a message saying "You didn't do what was the right thing to do, this is the consequence of that action, so you can learn from it."
This is more of a compromise, rather than me trying to change him forcefully.
Of course, these two can both be said of parents, and is dictated in different parenting styles.
Authoritarians use Punishments, Authoritative parents use Consequences. Mine were authoritative.
It's all in how it's communicated.
I guess I don't want to communicate it as if I am the one in charge of him.
His actions are his own. I can only communicate that they are hurtful and expect him to take ownership by 'offering' to pay a consequence.
I hope that makes sense.
Sadly, therapy is not an option for us financially right now. Our individual insurance plans each have high deductibles, so we would have to pay out of pocket all up to the deductible amounts before anything would be covered. I really, really, really want to do EFT. Have for years now. Insurance in America sucks.
I WOULD do the same and sleep on the couch myself.... but I don't want to. We have a futon. It's incredibly uncomfortable. And I have back problems and migraines.
I know it's a consequence he doesn't mind doing, sleeping out there. However, I also can't sleep without him next to me. I think it's a security thing.
Ugh. No sex would bother me too. I wouldn't last long. I need that kind of intimacy.
What are we to do with these men? It's so frustrating.
I keep waiting for him to suddenly want to do the work.
I know it won't happen until I really threaten to leave for good.
I just don't have the emotional strength right now to do that.
Or the money to live on my own.
But as many have said here before, I'd rather just be roommates than deal with this shit all the time.
What about a no video game night? For either of us. Tech turn-off. Would that be a good consequence?
He can't live without his games.
I get the roommate thing too for various reasons...kids, finances, etc. but do roommates still have sex? Just asking....
.........for a friend..lol
Our couch is comfy but my neck gets to me too. I’m actually thinking about putting a spare bed in the baby’s new room. That way I could choose to sleep there if needed.
I keep waiting too and it’s disappointing that we are putting forth the effort when it should be them! So I’m done pushing. I am just going to start making my own personal goals and do me. If he starts to work on himself then I’ll cheer him on but I know that I need to step back. (Easier said than done)
The no video game night would seem like more of an intimacy building night imo or at least it would be a good time to implement it. But how do you build intimacy with someone who is still resistant of personal growth? I feel like we are just stuck instead of moving forward in the relationship building until they ACTUALLY do something! Or maybe I’m just blinded by disappointment right now. Sry to rant just trying to make sense of all of it.
What’s your opinion on the intimacy building? We started a regimen but stopped when I got frustrated with him.
Well.... we were working on it, too. We started in on the packet that Anna has linked somewhere (The resources thread, I believe).
We got like 4/5 pages in... then stopped. I keep encouraging him to read more of it... never happens. I've read the whole thing. Twice. Independently.
Makes me wonder if he really just thinks we're fine the way we are.
He knows we're not. He hears my misery.
I don't get what it is I'm missing that is the "obvious fix". I need a miracle here.
What more is there to do when there's only effort on one side?
Basically my answer to that is I believe it can happen. If both parties sincerely want to be involved.
Also... as a roommate I wouldn't have sex. I'd just get a toy.
I just posed the technology turn-off night to him and he said he thinks it's a good idea and wants to talk more about it. Mostly because we discussed last night that technology plays a part in his addiction because it gets him bored if he's too stimulated. So sitting in silence is a great way to train his mind that he doesn't need stimuli of any kind in order to exist without needing PMO.
Ooh... Gaming addiction is now a Thing insurance covers!! In 2018!
If it's put under mental health or substance abuse counseling, it's post-deductible for me. So no coverage until I pay for $6,300 worth of counseling. If only I had that kind of cash.
Haha I have toys in the toy box...I guess I could start using them independently again..if I had to.
Yes Video games are like a replacement for P. To get the stimuli their brain craves. So that should be a very helpful exercise!
I ponder the same...and I do think they feel we are fine the way we are... and we are def NOT!
I feel you on the no money for counseling