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Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Rock_Star, Mar 31, 2018.
@CassTeaElle they've both been in couples and he has individual
I do and he isn't very helpful and doesn't understand betrayal trauma. so I'm going to find a new one.
I wish I wasn't so stubborn. I am a very arrogant person and I really need to be humble. I need to quit being defensive and I need to except that I caused this pain. it's my fault and I need to be a man and except it. I can be the man she needs. I can be patient, I can be understanding, I can except her anger, I can help her grieve, and I can be there for her.
I realize I've been a day behind since kenzi and I had our fight.
What I learned,
-I have been selfish
my attitude of wanting to fix her and my impatients is wrong. I have to let her heal at her own pace. it's not about me its about her. every time we argue and I turn it around and try to make it about me and my needs, all I'm doing is making her recovery more difficult.
- I'm not loving
I haven't been loving. if I want to her to love me I need to be loving to her. I need to listen to her heart and actually hear her.
- I haven't been honest
I have been translucent, but I haven't been transparent. I've been hiding behind a veil of half truths and blurry words of affection. I've kept secrets and had it in my head I was protecting her, in reality what I was really doing was hiding cause I was scared.
- I haven't been a good listener
I've only half listened. picked and chose what I wanted to hear. what was convenient for me. I havent heard what she needs or what she wants from me. I've only been going through the motions.
- I never took full responsibility for her pain.
I caused her pain I caused her hurt. I except that it's my fault. I need to remember that. I CAUSED HER PAIN.
so kenzi stayed yesterday. I came home and she was there. she gave me 30 days. 30 days to figure it out get it right or she is out. these are some of the first things I decided I want to do.
i want a new therapist. the one I have isn't helpful. he is a negative influence on my relationship with Kenzi. he doesn't understand betrayal trauma, and he can't help me help her through it.
I want to take a polygraph. i want to physically show kenzi that I am honest I am changing and that I want to make our marriage work and be the man she deserves.
I'm having a weekly sit down meeting with my AP. we will talk and go through how our week has been and listen to and support each other.
She's also made me a list of things she would like me to do. I have agreed to all of them. I even signed and dated them for her. I want to show her that I can be accountable. I can be there and be her rock. I want to be the hero that she wants me to be. when we first started dating she would call me captain cause I reminder her of captain America. Strong, honest, integritous. I can only imagine how she sees me now.
so far today hasn't been to bad. kenzi and I talked last night, it was very intense. I guess I should have expected that since I cause her so much hurt and pain. I've been watching the "helping her heal" videos. thank you @WillSquirrel for sending me though. if you haven't watched them yet I highly recommend them. DR. Weiss is a MFing genius. I wish I would have watched them before. I don't know if it would have helped because I was so stubborn about my healing and didn't really care about kenzis healing process. anyway... I watched them, and I learned that there are 6 things I need to do to be a better listener.
1- LISTEN TO HER HEART
I need to focus on kenzi and I need to really hear her. I need to really listen to what she's saying. not just what's on the surface but what she is feeling. which takes us to number 2.
2- EXLORE HER FEELINGS
I need to explore what she is feeling. really get to the bottom of that feeling. Dr Weiss described it as feeling gps. you're
following your SO as they take you on a drive. find those feeling, dig deeper until you've reach her destination. ask her all about how it made her feel and when she is done and there is nothing else for her to say, you've reach her destination.
3- VALIDATE HER FEELING
You just went on a crazy ride that most men aren't use to. left then right then up, down, backwards, and right again. it's scary and emotional. except her feeling. she has every right to feel that way. you have no say in how she should feel. they're her feelings not yours. so except them. they're her feelings and they're valid.
4- EXCEPT RESPONSIBILITY
It's your fault, not hers. you cause that pain. you caused those feelings, except them. truly be humble, be a grown up and except that it' your fault. she shouldn't be feeling angry and hurt. you took everything away from her. you took her past, present, and future. except that.
5- ASK HER WHAT SHE NEEDS
this one is really easy. all you have to do is ask her what she needs.
6- DO WHAT SHE ASKS
do what she asks. if she wants a hug, give her a hug. if she wants space, let her have space. if she wants you to do the dishes, for God's sake man, do the dishes. give her what she wants.
This is what I've been trying to do. I truly want to understand kenzi. I will never understand to pain and the heart ache that I put her through, but the least I can do is be understanding.
so last night we're talking and she is expressing her feelings, which are totally valid, and she is telling me about how my lying to her has made her feel. how every time I lie it kills her a little inside. that even the lies by ommision are still lies and it's like I don't care at all and she feels empty. the lies she is referring to are the ones I told her that day. I honestly didn't mean to lie, but I'm still working on being fully transparent. I told her that I am deleting all the female contacts from my phone, except of course for family members. so I did. i deleted all the female contacts from my "personal" phone. I didn't delete them from my work phone. I have certain numbers for work, like the office coordinator and the head of the department. when I said I was deleting all female contacts from my phone I negated to include or say that I was not talking about my work phone, and that these are specific for my job. i do not use my work phone for non work purposes. I never have but because of how much I've lied in the past I can understand why kenzi would not simply trust that. so we talk and I listened. somehow the subject got turned around to my PA and how my affair with the cam girl went. why did I keep going go that specific person. I told her it's because she was an easy "fix". then kenzi asked so she made your @%#& hard? did she make it the hardest? I said yes. which was not good because then kenzi started comparing her self to the P and how it turned me on, and I felt like I had to start defending myself, which I new was wrong cause Im the who messed up and I can't defend what I did. anyway all this was going and spiralling out of control so fast I almost lost myself in our talk and it almost turned into a fight, but it didn't. I reminded myself that I caused this pain, its my fault she feels this way. I reminded her that she is gorgeous and amazing and she made my @#%$ harder than anything P ever did for me and that I was an Addict. that my addiction in no way takes away from her. that it was my actions not hers and its my fault she feels this way. it's not hers. after that I started working on the house chores I promised I would do for her.
like I said it was an intense night. sorry if this was long tonight, but I felt like I really needed to get that out. redo what went down "per say" so I could see it and learn from it, and really get the knowledge I'm trying to attain to sink into my stubborn brain.
it's a new day and I'm making breakfast, corn beef and hash and eggs, cause dad makes breakfast on Sunday.
so last night I watched "fireproof" it was alright. I thought the message about how you should love your wife was good, but I felt like the whole you need to love God to love your wife bit cause if you don't you'll go to hell, was a bit over the top for me. I also felt like Kirk Cameron got off a little easy, and all you have to do to quit P is smash your computer.
So I'm a lier. I am having such a hard time with this and I didn't even realize it. it's over stupid stuff too. like kenzi and I were watching a movie, not fireproof, and she was talking to me. I got distracted and instead of saying "sorry honey, I wasn' listening" I said "yeah yeah, I'm listening".
gaw it's so stupid. I wasn't listening and I lied saying I was. it' stupid stuff like that, that I keep doing. I really need to catch myself and do a better job of being self aware.
Your posts made me think of this song.
It’s crazy when you notice this isn’t it!? Mostly because you realize that lying is such an ingrained habit that you don’t even think about it, like breathing.
The truth is scary because it shows our imperfections which shows weaknesses which shows we have vulnerabilities. We lie to “protect” and “hide” our imperfections but what’s crazy about that is we’re hiding the very thing that helps us be relatable with other people; I mean who can relate with a perfect person? None of us because they don’t exist, and yet we’re trying to live like we can become/be one which is the ultimate fantasy that must be removed.
Lying is a PA's bread and butter. It helps us through every uncomfortable situation we run into. And over many years we become very good at it. Not just lying to other but lying to ourselves. We can rationalize the most ridiculous things and convince ourselves that we are justified in our actions. Like SOB said, it is ingrained. It is like a survival skill or a defense mechanism. I wanted to avoid uncomfortable situations at all cost because feeling uncomfortable made me feel shame and I would avoid that anyway I could. And it got to the point that I would lie about the dumbest things. Like missing an exit on the highway. "Sorry honey, there was an accident on the highway and i'ts going to take me a little longer to get home." I mean there is no reason for me to lie about something like that but the fact that I would have to admit that I wasn't paying attention made me uncomfortable so it was easier to tell a lie. Being honest with myself allowed me to be honest with my wife. No more rationalizing things no more avoiding uncomfortable situations. Just honesty.
So far so good, I guess. I'm trying to be considerate but I don't know, I'm having a really hard time not being selfish. last night kenzi called me out on being selfish again, and then this morning I asked her a question on what she would like to do but I had already decided what to do and didn't take her advice or even consider her suggestion. just went on and did my own thing. I thanked her for calling me out. I really do appreciate it. I've so engrained being a @$#*@# off that I don't even realize I'm doing it. I'm trying really hard to mentally take note of what when and why I'm doing stupid inconsiderate things, and I'm glad she'll telling when I'm being an @$$. she shouldn't have to tell me these things but I really appreciate that she is.
so I got a call back from a couples counselor kenzi and I use to see. I thought that he was kinda a dink and I never took him seriously, but now that I think back on it. i was the dink. I should have heard what kenzi was telling me in those early sessions and really tried to make things better instead of just half @$$ing them like I did. my appointment is on Thursday which seems like an eternity away, but I'm going to keep taking notes on my self and striving to be a good husband.
So great, Rock Star! Keep on keepin on.
Today is freaking hard. I feel super stressed and that nothing I am doing is good enough. this whole being patient and understanding, when all you want to do is make things better is trying. I know that I have no right for her to try and understand things from where I'm at, but it still feels unfair. I know I know that is stupid, cause I know it wasn't fair of me to use P, or watch cam girls, or lie and hide the truth. That doesn't make it any easier. when I get this naught at the pit of my stomach and I can feel this anger and frustration that no matter how hard I try it's all pointless to my SO because I should've been doing these things from the beginning. it's just so AARRG!
woosaw woosaw... think calming thoughts. I'm just frustrated today. my boss wants me to go go go, kenzi is tearing apart everything I say and nothing I do is good enough at this point. I know that's probably not true but thats how i feel. so I am stressed, I'm venting and hoping today gets better, cause right now I want to just go back to bed and wait for tomorrow to come.
I hear you man..I know that feeling.
What sucks is if we NEVER look at porn again in our lives (which we better not freaking do!!) -- our wives would STILL be in the right for leaving us for what we did to them (that is just my opinion of course).
That reality is still hard for me to swallow...BUT I have to accept that...which hopefully helps to keep me in a posture of humility and thinking of her, not me.
Final thought: my Skype counselor which I had from June 2017 - mid-January 2018....the best compliment he once gave me after I updated him about the past week:
"You are doing a great job interacting to and relating to your wife...you are making it really, really hard for her to want to leave you. Keep it up!"
I know that is not always easy to do..but keep that in the forefront of your mind -- every deed, every word, every thought you have with your SO -> Is it contributing to her NOT wanting to leave you?
Slow down..think before you say anything / plan your actions with your wife...always take the high road.
Today was a good day. kenzi and I talked, she even opened up to me about how she'd been feeling about something. I feel like that's a good sign. I did mess up a little with something she likes me to tell her about on my drives. I told her after it happened instead of before. just a little thing but the little things are what build trust.
I had a thought today about when I started ogling. it really happened about 10 years ago when I got my first job in my field. I worked for a place where men were constanty objectifing women. hey look over there, thats nice, check that out. there was one instance where I was riding in a truck with a guy and he says" the best thing about driving these big trucks is the view." as he was referencing to a car next to us where the woman was wearing something revealing. at the time I didn't really think to much of it. I had brain fog and thought it was just normal behavior. I was even starting to do things that were wrong. I remember getting a message from a friend of a naked woman and turning my phone to show the guy next to me and saying something like "look at that rack". I'm glad I don't work there anymore. i dont think my recovery would be as good if i still did. it really is surprising how much we just "let go" though. it's so easy to get sucked into the social norm of our environments.
so I was thinking, kenzi has a counter going that is 30 days, and I'm on day 20. if she's on 7 and I'm on 20 one of of must have missed something, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't her. so starting today I'm resetting my counter to my last big mess up and making sure it never hits 1 again.
today is Thursday. God I hate Thursdays, if Thursdays were Mondays I'd be a fat tabby who loves lasagna. In my past I've made a lot of #%[email protected] ups on Thursdays, and I have recently become aware of it. so I am consciously striving to make each Thursday a success. today was a good day. this morning went well. kenzi was reading an article about how Steve jobs only ever practiced Tantra, and I reacted, well poorly. I said "that seems crazy," and she looked at me with a little fire in her eyes and said the word all men dread to hear from their wife, " Why?" I was like Idk It just seems weird. how can anyone go that long without orgasming it just doesn't sound like fun. she looks at me and says, "wow, that's selfish". at this point my brain is starting to smoke. I slowed down and thought about it a little bit and said " you're right, that is selfish." I called her on my way to work after thinking about it some more and said, " I think what through me off was the idea of only having sex one way for your whole life." She explained to me that you can have tantra in any style of sex you wish, and just having sex to orgasm is having sex only one way for your entire life. then she sent me an article on karezza which explained it in a way I understood and could retain. it made me think " that's what I want, I want to experience that kind of connection with kenzi". it was really eye opening.
Karezza, or Lovemaking Without Orgasm, Strengthens Marriages, Say Advocates - ABC News
I also had my first therapy with my new/old therapist. I told him everything that has been going on and what I've been learning and reading about. he says "wow, it actually sounds like you are really trying to make an effort this tims." that made me feel nice. it's really helpful to talk to someone who understands betrayal trauma and addiction. my former therapist help me alot with my personal recovery but he didn't understand the pain i had caused kenzi. I'm schedule to meet with him next week and I have a good feeling this is really going to help me stay on track, help me find my emotions, and help me express them in a healthy way.
TGIF! today was long. work just kept dragging on. I'm glad to be home and relaxing with the wife and kids. tonight we're going to start reading "good pictures, bad pictures" to the kids.
other then that it' been a good day and I hope to keep it that way.
Addiction is a behavior. If you want to arrest the addiction, you have to change the behavior. Insight is nice, but behavioral and cognitive techniques (sometimes pharmaceutical interventions) are recommended for addressing addiction. What background, if any, does your therapist have in treating porn addiction? I don't know where else you're posting on NoFap; have you checked out "reset and relapse" forum? I strongly recommend that you come up with specific techniques to address day-to-day trigger situations. I get that fear of losing Kenzi is motivating you, but focusing on yourself right now is the key to recovery. I am also curious why you've chosen not to reset your counter.
I haven't reset my badge counter cause I am watching my wife's 30 day boundaries which are temporarily in place. the original counter I started was on how long i was honest. my badge counter is for being porn and masturbation free, which I still am. so far my recovery from being Porn free has been successful, helping kenzi deal with her betrayal trauma and excepting that I caused her pain, has not been successful. I'm am working on excepting that I caused her pain. excepting that she needs to heal, and I'm working on being less selfish, more caring and understanding.
thank you for your concern, and I appreciate your input.
It twas the weekend.
it's been a good a good weekend. kenzi and I finished building the fence around our house and it looks awesome. we'v been talking alot and just hanging out. it's been alot of fun. we had a serious talk about some boundaries. she wants to keep her space and not be touchy feely, which I understand, but we've been connecting really well these last few days. when I feel connected I get touchy feely. anyway I was pushing the boundaries and she made it clear to me that she wasn't in that place and I needed to back off. I apologized and told her I was sorry for making her feel like I was trying to push her or manipulate her into feeling something she wasn't. that was never my intention. I was just feeling close to her, and sometimes I think her healing is moving faster then it is sometimes. so I put on the brakes and said I will move only as fast as you want to.
this has been a pretty good weekend and I hope more like this come.
Today was not my friend. I woke up super tired and just really out of it. I guess I just didn't sleep well. My tiredness lead to how difficult today was. Now I'm not making excuses, because at this point I feel I should know when I am not paying attention to kenzi.
So this morning I am out of it tired. Going through my morning routine like a zombie. Getting the kids up making breakfast, and getting coffee. Kenzi is now trying to connect with me and initiate a conversation and try to be close with me. I slump in the couch not paying attention to any of this and stay there until about 5 minute before I have to leave for work. Then I get up rush around the house trying to find my wallet and keys say my goodbyes and I'm out the door. On my way to work I'm thinking that I missed something this morning. I called kenzi and talked to her. She let me know my unreceptiveness made her feel rejected and not wanted. which is the complete opposite of what or how I want her to feel. I feel like I really dropped the ball on this one. figuratively speaking. I told her how sorry I was and that I don't want her to feel that way, cause I do want her. more than anything.
Here's hoping tomorrow will be better.
Was just reading some of the entries of yours and it got me thinking about where I am in my own recovery. I've had my issue for pretty much 35+ years - my entire adult life - but I think I'm really starting to get a hold of this addiction and employing things that are really making a difference. Thought I'd share just a bit - take from it what might work and leave the rest.
At times, I felt like my mind was all over the place. I felt like I couldn't get a grasp on my addiction, what I was doing wrong, why I was having trouble thinking/speaking/doing the right thing. I really felt hopeless. Day after friggin' day. I'd get a couple of days under my belt, then be back at it without thinking.
Recently, however, I've sort of changed some things in my life that have helped. Here are just a few of the ideas I'm incorporating:
1. I created a written list of things to do when I had down/idle time (Thursdays for you?). This includes about 20-25 things that are positive and productive and I look forward to doing. This gives me an outlet on how I can kill anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours. It also helped me replace negative habits with positive ones.
2. I stopped concentrating on NOT looking at porn. The more I focused on what I didn't want to do, the more I seemed drawn to it. So I started focusing instead SOLELY on where/who I wanted to be. That's where the list also helps.
3. I started doing just a little meditation. Nothing real heavy. Meditation was not something I'd ever do or think that I would have gotten into. But let me tell you, nothing eases the mind's chatter like it. I'd invite you to download an app called Insight Timer and try 5 minutes here and there. For someone new to it, expect the language they use to be, well, different. But if you give it an honest chance and buy into it for a few weeks, you might benefit like I did.
4. I worked on knocking out my heaviest weak spot first, then going down from there. So for me, shutting off access to hardcore porn (via accountability software) was the first step. Then I started eliminating softcore stuff, like Cinemax. Then Google Image searches. Hell, I could get off to the most G-rated stuff if I needed to. So then I started removing the cord from the TV when my wife wasn't home. Not unplugging. Removing the cord. If nothing else, if you want to edge, it gives you those valuable seconds to reconsider your decision.
Not sure if this kind of stuff is helpful to you, but thought I'd throw it out there.
Be strong today.