My problem ruined my relationship.

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I don't understand why he wants to keep trying with me. Maybe because he feels no one else would want to put up with him except for the trash he seeks out online.

Quite frankly, I'm asking the same question.

@Schizophrenic_Warfly, I did get the vibe that you're more focused on salvaging your relationship than on your own recovery for yourself. I personally don't see any hope for this relationship. And don't see @Revenadd ever forgiving or trusting you. And I don't understand why she is still in contact with you. I would still recommend that both of you get involved in a support group such SAA and Sanon. They'll provide support and guidance that therapy and forums cannot provide. It saddens me to see this so much. But never give up on becoming a better version of one's self because that journey is worth it. Wishing you both well.
 
I know I need to do this for myself. And at this point she's not my other half sadly. Yesterday we had a good day of positive communication. Today has been more of her being mean and negative communication. I don't think an infidelity is worth throwing away our relationship.
Infidelity is one of the very best reasons to walk away from a relationship. Of course you don’t think so because you got yours, you weren’t cheated on, lied to, gaslighted abused. You just slipped up right?
 
Infidelity is one of the very best reasons to walk away from a relationship. Of course you don’t think so because you got yours, you weren’t cheated on, lied to, gaslighted abused. You just slipped up right?
He's still totally delusional. This thread is like a case study for why you can't take active addict posts at face value. He outlined that the bad stuff happening was her talking negatively to him, rather than that he is still actively acting out. Just wild.
 
It was more than porn. A lot has been revealed in the last week or two. He threw me away for crossdressers on a social media texting app that have local groups, so more people like him. He insists he never cheated physically during our relationship but he did get nasty and swap nudes/vids/porn and words with local online strangers in hookups apps, including while on the clock at work. It took him this entire time to finally admit to me that he was jerking off at work during our relationship though I asked him repeatedly and he lied before. He says it was only twice and I want to believe him but I know how some people withhold details to make themselves not seem so bad (idk why he would withhold at this point, I can't imagine how it could possibly get worse). He says he didn't send anyone live video/clips but maybe old video from before our relationship (sure thing bud).

He's reached out to and looked up many people since I've kicked him out, including people he said he was no longer interested in. How can I trust him again? He is a liar through and through.

Every single day since we started talking (about 2 weeks ago) since I kicked him out a month ago, a new lie has been uncovered. It's unbelievable. I THOUGHT it was just porn. He is a sex addict. He tried to let me believe that maybe he's not into male genitals and it's just the addiction until I was able to get him to admit how many men he's been with, who his primary target audience is for his hookup apps, and how many men he was with before me. Men are easy. A lot of them were grandpa aged crossdressers and idk how to process that.

He has been unfaithful from the very start and has never been faithful to anyone. I don't understand why he wants to keep trying with me. Maybe because he feels no one else would want to put up with him except for the trash he seeks out online.

He got emotional and upset about me wanting to put a tracker app on his phone which also sends me alarm bells. Which tells me he learned to hide his indiscretions better so there's probably something to find out if he gets tracked.
I'm sorry to hear about the level of deceit you've been subjected to. It really is sickening, probably one of the worst I can remember reading in here.

I feel like when someone posts in here seeking help we want to give the benefit of the doubt, but there is an element of those posts that appear to be for the benefit of the SO reading them more than anything else. Fortunately, I think you're too wise to it to be manipulated by disingenuous gestures of change.
 
It was more than porn. A lot has been revealed in the last week or two. He threw me away for crossdressers on a social media texting app that have local groups, so more people like him. He insists he never cheated physically during our relationship but he did get nasty and swap nudes/vids/porn and words with local online strangers in hookups apps, including while on the clock at work. It took him this entire time to finally admit to me that he was jerking off at work during our relationship though I asked him repeatedly and he lied before. He says it was only twice and I want to believe him but I know how some people withhold details to make themselves not seem so bad (idk why he would withhold at this point, I can't imagine how it could possibly get worse). He says he didn't send anyone live video/clips but maybe old video from before our relationship (sure thing bud).

He's reached out to and looked up many people since I've kicked him out, including people he said he was no longer interested in. How can I trust him again? He is a liar through and through.

Every single day since we started talking (about 2 weeks ago) since I kicked him out a month ago, a new lie has been uncovered. It's unbelievable. I THOUGHT it was just porn. He is a sex addict. He tried to let me believe that maybe he's not into male genitals and it's just the addiction until I was able to get him to admit how many men he's been with, who his primary target audience is for his hookup apps, and how many men he was with before me. Men are easy. A lot of them were grandpa aged crossdressers and idk how to process that.

He has been unfaithful from the very start and has never been faithful to anyone. I don't understand why he wants to keep trying with me. Maybe because he feels no one else would want to put up with him except for the trash he seeks out online.

He got emotional and upset about me wanting to put a tracker app on his phone which also sends me alarm bells. Which tells me he learned to hide his indiscretions better so there's probably something to find out if he gets tracked.

Sorry for what he's put you through. Even before you commented it was clear how self centered he is. Good luck.

Schizophrenic, you need to take a good, honest look at yourself. If you want a relationship it can't be only about you. She never agreed to have all these creeps you've involved in the relationship, and didn't deserve it. Why can't you see that? You should treasure your partner and nourish the relationship, not crush it.
 
Sadly, your problem didn't ruin your relationship, I murdered it and then cremated the remains. Once you lose trust, it's done.

No one wins in this kind of thing. Personally, I would swear off relationships for now and start working on recovery. Dig into your past and try to uncover the roots of your addiction. As someone who's also had experience with this hellhole type of porn, I've found the roots to be very deep: being molested as a child by my step-mother, trust issues, self-hatred, an a lack of self-worth. I don't know your history @Schizophrenic_Warfly, but I would put money that you have similar issues, especially the abuse one; it's been a very common theme I've found in the trans porn community both by users and providers.
 
The biggest step you can take is decide to do this for yourself. Not because it's a condition your partner has set, but because you no longer want to be engaging in that behaviour….
This first sentence from Jerry cannot be stressed enough, indeed: The biggest step you can take is decide to do this for yourself.
If you think you have to quit a certain behavior only for the sake of meeting a partner’s desire to have a more thorough closeness or, on a bad day, more thorough grasp on you, then you will have hard time quitting, as it might feel like exchanging ‘being totally controlled by addiction’ to ‘being totally controlled by a partner’. Therefore, first of all in my view comes the aim for being myself fully under control of my life and work on all shame that leads me to go into secrecy .

I know I need to do this for myself. And at this point she's not my other half sadly. …
I wish you good luck in finding a new partner one day with whom you can be open right from the beginning about all your behaviors!
Quite frankly, I'm asking the same question.

@Schizophrenic_Warfly, I did get the vibe that you're more focused on salvaging your relationship than on your own recovery for yourself. I personally don't see any hope for this relationship. And don't see @Revenadd ever forgiving or trusting you. And I don't understand why she is still in contact with you. I would still recommend that both of you get involved in a support group such SAA and Sanon. They'll provide support and guidance that therapy and forums cannot provide. It saddens me to see this so much. But never give up on becoming a better version of one's self because that journey is worth it. Wishing you both well.
Fully agree and my compliments, @KevinesKay , for the wisdom of your answer! (And I’m trying to learn from it!;)) One can indeed learn a lot from the way you address a conflict that has gone to the extreme, by not starting to argue with either person’s position, but matter-of-fact-like acknowledge that there is a situation that each one has to work on their end with the support from others, @Schizophrenic_Warfly to come to terms with why he has certain desires and whether he can address them through personal encounters rather than online outlets; @Revenadd to find out what approach to take in order not to fall into the trap again of attracting a notorious liar (and/or whether her attitudes may favor someone to become a liar) . I wish you both good luck in healing ❤️‍ from your wounds. And indeed it is never helpful to bring a personal dispute into a public forum, though i fully understand the need to vent.
 
UPDATE! He's P free!

But I couldn't do it. I couldn't forgive him or respect him again. I tried. We tried. But my resentment leaked through to every obstacle we encountered.

We weren't together long enough. We don't have kids. We aren't tied to each other.

He kept telling me I would eventually need to get over it and that just fed the fire even more. How dare you tell me that? How dare you betray me and then tell me to get over it?

Often times when a shortcoming of his was highlighted in an arguement, he would refer to his having autism as the reason.

So I had to let him go. I am not equipped to be with someone with autism I guess.

I pointed out that an alcoholic may be ashamed of the things they did while drunk, but that doesn't mean they don't or didn't like drinking. It doesn't make sense to me how he can claim to be a heterosexual after being with 6-8 men before starting a relationship with me and at the time calling himself bisexual (but now he's heterosexual to please me??). He had experience with 6-8 women before that, actual relationships and not online-only hookups, I'm not counting those, if I did the number would probably be like 10, sigh. But now after all is said and done, he claims he is deeply ashamed of his behavior. And I point out, that doesn't mean he didnt like it.

When I don't like something, I don't do it again after the first time unless it's something good for me like beans. I kept trying beans every few years because I knew it was good for me but I didn't like the taste or texture and finally finally I can tolerate beans in my diet (thanks to really good mexican places lol). I tried a dating app once. Once. Never again. The type of people you meet online are just not for me. I wouldn't even do it for the free drinks and dinners.

If I had never caught him commenting on ts P on the internet, I would have never found out he was swapping pics with mostly strange male crossdressers on another app during our relationship. He was the type to keep the secrets buried unless exposed. It was exhausting. His first apology in this drama was telling me he swears he wasn't having conversations with anyone, and that it was only him commenting on ts P on the internet. The nerve.

He claims mental illness. That he had an addiction. His therapist is treating this like alcohol addiction. Having him watch Tedtalks on alcohol addiction.

If you had face to face experiences with that many women, full on relationships, and then the same amount of experiences with men in skirts (mostly not in skirts) but not exactly relationships except for a couple of them were more than one night stands, after that... you KNOW what you like, you KNOW what you're about. Trying to tell me, "He thought he liked it bc that's what people expected of him." Or something. To his credit, he didn't make out with them, maybe one of them and he said he didn't like it? I forget now, too much to keep track of. It was strictly transactional, pump and pump, when it wasn't limp from alcohol.

I felt like he was holding onto a lie. Pretending to be a heterosexual with a "wild, experimenting past he's ashamed about but can grow and learn and move on from." If he didn't like it, why did he keep doing it more than once? Why was everyone he cheated on me with online a crossdresser with barely any cis women in there? If he had just told me, "ok, yes, I did like it. I am not completely hetero," then he'd have more of my respect. That is way more believable. I just can't trust him anymore.

To his credit, he quit P. He actually quit P. He replaced that time with playing mobile app games and console games (yippee, how productive, but better than what he was doing before). He didn't cheat on me again after I let him move back in but the atmosphere was still toxic. We would have a good time hanging out, doing certain activities like watching tv or running errands. But after coming home from a wholesome distant cousin's birthday party on his family's side, I couldn't stop but question him... "you had enough data to know if you liked fellating men or not based on the number of women you've been with. Just because you say you're ashamed of doing it doesn't mean you didn't like it."

We had a peaceful, relaxed time at this food and cake party. But it all came crashing down after coming home that night because I couldn't stop myself from confronting him about it. It's a curse that never leaves.

I would rather live paycheck to paycheck and struggle to buy food than be with a guy who blames autism and has a history of lying. Who gets hot-tempered and loses control of their words during heated arguements and apologizes about it later but then does it again!? I would rather struggle alone and have some peace instead.

I also had a dream last week where I found myself with my head in the crotch of someone wearing a santa clause costume, something lazily and uncaringly in my mouth that I don't wish to repeat (it felt like I was in the POV of someone else, not myself). I looked up at him, this older santa clause, (he was laying down on his back, on the floor of what appeared to be commercial, retail type lineoluem), he was looking up above his head perplexed as well and he said, "I dunno." And then the scene cuts to me seeing my ex, possibly sitting at a bar, saying to me very intensely, "Six... years..." and I felt very uncomfortable and woke up. I took that as a sign that I'm going to break up with him in 6 years anyway because I'll never, ever be able to get over it. Or maybe he's saying, "it's been 6 years and you still can't get over it." Either way, I'd like to avoid that moment in 6 years all together. It was connected to his past behavior and felt very uncomfortable.

That conclusion, combined with screaming disagreements from both of us because he calls me mean and that I don't respect him (and I probably don't... how can I when I think he's still lying about his sexual preferences?), is why we're finally done trying. For good. We can't even be friends. He says I'm mean, disrespectul and emotionally abusive. So I ask, "then why do you want to be with me? Why do you want to be with someone like that?" I don't even deny that I'm being emotionally abusive. I probably am. I tell him he should get his tubes tied to prevent bringing a child into this world that might live the same life he did, autistic with no coping skills or anger management skills. Without an intimate bond with their father just like him, to get a better understanding of how the world works and how to be a good man. He calls me mean for saying it but I see it as sparing a life. Go adopt if you really want kids but read lots of books on healthy parenting/fathering first, you know you're researching it right when you find authors with opposing views and you're able to determine which one works better for you.

He asked why is it that when he refers to something in the past it's "so long ago," but when I do it's, "not that long ago." I tried explaining to him it's because what he's referring to are the compliments and encouragement I gave him on his progress and improvements since the betrayal. He'll remind me in arguments, "but you said you were proud me and the progress I've made." And I'll go, "that was a long time ago." That's because a lot of bad stuff has happened since those things argument wise. I told him good job for staying faithful this second time around but we have a major personality clash now. And when I refer to his betrayal as "not that long ago," it's because it's trauma. He refers to his man dating phase as "so long ago" but he was with that grandpa 35 years his senior that first night he slept on my couch (well, the morning after), the weekend before our first real date. I feel like he woke up from my couch that Sunday morning resentful that we didn't hook up, so he went on the app to bang some 65-year-old crossdresser 14 minutes from my home to make up for it. That was Nov 2023. So the difference in these timeframes is one is trauma related memories/moments and the other is happy related memories/moments.

I told him this was always going to be an uphill battle for him. I told him the reward won't be worth the effort because it would take herculean strength to get me to move past his betrayals. He said he would do whatever is necessary. Yet we can't even communicate civily anymore. What's the point? I don't have the patience for him anymore. I told him it feels like we're in a high school level relationship, and that I've already experienced that IN high school and I don't feel like doing it again. I know what a successful relationship is because I've been in one before and he knows that. I know what it is to have disagreements calmly and maturely. We're not on the same level and I don't have the patience or energy anymore to help get him there.

It really sucks to pour your time, energy, heart and soul into someone and not have it work out. If I could strip away from him all the flaws I can't get over, it would be perfect. But that is asking too much and very much not possible.

After this betrayal, I am very much not going to be able to trust anyone for a while. I understand I may even die alone. This guy claimed he is absolutely in love with me and it's still not enough for me. When it was good, it was very good. The bad was too much and too often. The pain and the curse and the poison of his betrayal and his past were just too much to handle.

Throughout all our arguments, I encouraged him to spread his wings and meet someone new whom he didn't betray so he could start over with a clean slate. Someone who will accept him for who he is. Someone who will be okay with him being a grown adult male wearing dbz shirts in public when it's not a children's bday party.

However, he would tell me no one wants me. Most recently he told me he hopes I kill myself and he hopes I die alone and miserable. Of course, he apologizes and takes it back, blaming the heat of the moment and his emotions. I point out that during arguements I encourage him to find love, while he tells me I won't get it.

I am very glad I will no longer have to go to bed every night and wake up every morning thinking about how I wasn't amazing enough to maintain his attention or focus on me instead of crossdressers/guys from the moment he met me, yet he's supposedly also very much in love with me. I am unable to reconcile that. Why would you do that to someone you're absolutely in love with? Do you not know what love is? Were you never taught how to treat people properly? Do you not know you can't go through life just doing whatever you want without consequences? It doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't connect. But I don't have to worry about it anymore.

I really hope he uses condoms and acts safe moving forward for the safety of the community.

I am finally free from this prison and one day hopefully the pain.

Thanks for reading.
 
You've really been through the ringer with this, but thankfully it sounds like you're free now.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the minutiae of why he did what he did. The specific nature of his perversion is kind of irrelevant when he cheated on you in the worst kind of ways. Excuses like sexuality, fetishes, autism, addiction, etc. are really just excuses. There is no sexual drive that makes you cheat on someone. It's a choice he freely made.

Same with respect to his declarations of love. Past behaviour seems to imply they're gestures of manipulation. Maybe he doesn't know what love is or simply wants to retain someone that will tolerate his behaviour. Who knows. After so many lies, you can hardly trust whatever reason or rationale he gave you for his love if it doesn't ring true.

I know it will be difficult to trust again but don't close yourself off to that possibility. I think you got really unlucky here, surely lightning won't strike twice. It's just about identifying red flags and doing due diligence before allowing yourself to become invested. You'll be fine.
 
He is not P free anymore. He relapsed hard (went on a date with a crssdresser but not even he wanted anything to do with him haha). Back to swapping inappropriate messages on various apps. He also stopped going to therapy prior to "relapsing."

Look, I can't with this anymore. It's not that hard to keep your hand out of your pants.

I am okay. I've already grieved his absence in my life, like in the past, I've already done it. No need to do it again.

But did want to share the update that the cake is a lie, he is back to his usual violating self. People like him create their own prison, maybe they should stay there.
 
He is not P free anymore. He relapsed hard (went on a date with a crssdresser but not even he wanted anything to do with him haha). Back to swapping inappropriate messages on various apps. He also stopped going to therapy prior to "relapsing."

Look, I can't with this anymore. It's not that hard to keep your hand out of your pants.

I am okay. I've already grieved his absence in my life, like in the past, I've already done it. No need to do it again.

But did want to share the update that the cake is a lie, he is back to his usual violating self. People like him create their own prison, maybe they should stay there.

well be honest with yourself too. you dislike (or hate?) him because of his addiction. dont try to pretend it's because of the lies or deception, you wuld have resented him even if he was upfront about his attraction/addiction/habits/etc
 
well be honest with yourself too. you dislike (or hate?) him because of his addiction. dont try to pretend it's because of the lies or deception, you wuld have resented him even if he was upfront about his attraction/addiction/habits/etc
This is a wild comment. Why would there be resentment if he'd been up front about it? She probably wouldn't have dated him, but that's not hate or resentment, that's just an informed decision. I despise my ex and have extreme resentment because of his addiction and that he hid it from me. Partners are tricked into starting relationships, sometimes tricked into marriage or having kids. Tricked into tying ourselves to someone who is purposely keeping us in the dark about who they are. It means nothing was ever consensual. Some partners have more than ten or twenty years of their lives stolen this way. It's extremely abusive.
 
well be honest with yourself too. you dislike (or hate?) him because of his addiction. dont try to pretend it's because of the lies or deception, you wuld have resented him even if he was upfront about his attraction/addiction/habits/etc
Nope it’s the lies and deception. Anyone up front allows the partner to make informed decisions. What is there to resent? If you flat out tell me you don’t believe in monogamy, you prefer masturbation to sex, you love self pleasure more than you care about anything else. Then I can choose to be with you or not invest in the relationship. When you cheat, lie, deceive and gas light someone you traumatize them. Repeatedly. You destroy their ability to decipher what is real and what isn’t. Talk about resentment. It’s laughable you think someone would have hatred or resentment if they were told about the addiction up front.
 
Nope it’s the lies and deception. Anyone up front allows the partner to make informed decisions. What is there to resent? If you flat out tell me you don’t believe in monogamy, you prefer masturbation to sex, you love self pleasure more than you care about anything else. Then I can choose to be with you or not invest in the relationship. When you cheat, lie, deceive and gas light someone you traumatize them. Repeatedly. You destroy their ability to decipher what is real and what isn’t. Talk about resentment. It’s laughable you think someone would have hatred or resentment if they were told about the addiction up front.

You're confirming what I was saying

His addiction to his fetish was the deal breaker, not anything else

Again, just going off a post online, idk irl details. But it reads like she disliked this guy for a while, or at least didn't really love or care enough, and used the discovery of his addictions as an excuse to bail

Again, only going off posts but I wonder how much of her attitudes drove him further into addiction and chasing fetishes

Hard to tell only through internet posts tho
 
This is a wild comment. Why would there be resentment if he'd been up front about it? She probably wouldn't have dated him, but that's not hate or resentment, that's just an informed decision. I despise my ex and have extreme resentment because of his addiction and that he hid it from me. Partners are tricked into starting relationships, sometimes tricked into marriage or having kids. Tricked into tying ourselves to someone who is purposely keeping us in the dark about who they are. It means nothing was ever consensual. Some partners have more than ten or twenty years of their lives stolen this way. It's extremely abusive.


It's not a trick and it's not "abuse"

You would have despised your ex regardless of if he lied or not. Or at least showed indifference and probably disgust toward him for it
 
This story is absolutely wild. I was about to give advice to the OP and then read the rest... holy shit. It seems like decisions have already been made but I still want to give my two cents.

OP is clearly more than just a PMO/sex addict. He's a pleasure addict and a pathological liar. The liar part is worse than the addict part because an addiction can be overcome, but being a liar is a fundamental personality flaw and much, much harder to deal with. Would OP have ever told anyone the true extent of the situation had he not been exposed? I seriously doubt it.

I also agree with those saying that all the talk about sexuality and mental illness is an excuse. Being bisexual or gay doesn't mean you are being given a free pass to cheat. That's ridiculous. Same with the autism thing. I'm pretty much a sperg (it's our word, I'm allowed to say it lmao) and I can tell you, being autistic doesn't make you act like this. It just doesn't. He has much deeper problems than just being autistic. To me he sounds like a guy who is very confused, very troubled and is lashing out when he gets caught our or challenged. It's ultimately no one's problem but his own and at this point trying any further to fix him is a typical case of sunk-cost. I know the partner said they had left anyway so me saying that is moot, but still.
 
It's not a trick and it's not "abuse"

You would have despised your ex regardless of if he lied or not. Or at least showed indifference and probably disgust toward him for it
You don’t seem to understand that IF the person is honest from the beginning then the partner has the ability to decide if they want to be in a relationship with a porn/sex addict. The lying takes that choice away. Thats why the ex is despised. I had no issue with porn. Used it myself when younger and literally brought vcr tapes home hoping to spice up our sex life. Not uncommon for some of us. No idea that porn was the reason our sex life sucked. Finding out he was lying to me? I had so much contempt for his cowardice. I can work with an addict who can be honest. Can’t work with a liar.
 
It's not a trick and it's not "abuse"

You would have despised your ex regardless of if he lied or not. Or at least showed indifference and probably disgust toward him for it

I literally told him I wasn't interested in being in a relationship with someone who watched porn. He lied and said he didn't and then married me without ever telling me. I had to find it on my own. That's trickery. And abuse. Many PAs are able to keep tricking women all the way into her having their children and tying her to him under false pretenses for 20+ years. That's absolutely abuse.

And yes, I would have been indifferent, because I don't care whether someone I'm not dating is using porn. I know lots of my male friends who openly watch porn and I literally don't care. Don't hate them at all. Don't care in the least. No resentment to be had. I think it's pretty gross, but I also think eating pickles is gross.
 
You're confirming what I was saying

His addiction to his fetish was the deal breaker, not anything else

Again, just going off a post online, idk irl details. But it reads like she disliked this guy for a while, or at least didn't really love or care enough, and used the discovery of his addictions as an excuse to bail

Again, only going off posts but I wonder how much of her attitudes drove him further into addiction and chasing fetishes

Hard to tell only through internet posts tho
This is a mental take. Obviously the resentment comes from him banging dudes behind her back. Whether he was addicted to doing so or not is irrelevant, he deceived her for their entire relationship whilst he had sex with other people. Why would that not be a legitimate source of resentment? The idea both that she is to blame and further that she was pushing this guy into a crossdressing fetish is lunatic. I don't know how you could read these posts and come to that conclusion.
 
well be honest with yourself too. you dislike (or hate?) him because of his addiction. dont try to pretend it's because of the lies or deception, you wuld have resented him even if he was upfront about his attraction/addiction/habits/etc

Dude, what on earth are you talking about. Lying to someone is bad. Lying to someone you supposedly care about deeply in order to cheat is worse. Lying to someone you supposedly care about deeply in order to live a double life where you sleep with elderly crossdressers is heinous. Just peak degenerate behaviour. The partner is completely, 100% in the right to hate them for the lying and hate them for their actions. I mean damn, how is this even up for debate? Do you seriously believe that the partner is somehow at fault?

It's not a trick and it's not "abuse"

You would have despised your ex regardless of if he lied or not. Or at least showed indifference and probably disgust toward him for it

Lying to your partner, covering up a double life, cheating, insulting, telling them to kill themselves, potentially passing along STDs from sleeping with others, these are all objectively forms of abuse. I'm starting to question if you're trolling because the alternative, that you're that oblivious, is kinda concerning. How would you feel if your girlfriend told you one day that throughout your entire relationship she'd been cheating on you with elderly lesbians and then when you said something about it told you to kill yourself?
 
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