My wife is so so angry...

CrushedandLeaving said:
Noticing that someone is beautiful is very different than allowing yourself to dwell on it to the result of arousal and fantasy. This would very much depend on the relationship.
Do you want a relationship where this level of disclosure is appropriate? Cool, then find someone who has those same boundaries and standards as you by being open about your expectations from the start.
Trick someone into marrying you under false pretenses pretending you were something you weren't? You will need to have a deep discussion and AGREE together on what needs to be disclosed.

Can't manage to do that? Sounds like irreconcilable differences.

Sad about an unfortunate divorce because of those irreconcilable differences? Well, yes. There are deep and lasting consequences to lying to someone to get them to marry you.

It's really straightforward. No one gets to control their partner's reality or boundaries through dishonesty.
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I think intentionality is the key distinction. You can definitely have the intention of checking out girls in a way that makes you responsible for it, but by the same token, arousal is not always a response you have much control over.

However, I think you also have to set boundaries about what aspects to your private mental life you disclose. I don't believe anyone has the right to know every thought and feeling that goes through your mind, and I certainly don't think it's healthy for a partner to be fixated upon complete knowledge of that either. There may be a reason why a partner gets obsessive about this owing to past behaviour, but that doesn't make it any less unhealthy.

I agree to some extent that it's about agreed boundaries, but there are also generally agreed boundaries that most people assume going into a relationship. Everyone knows that it's wrong to cheat, but people don't usually inform their partner every time they find themselves attracted to someone. That is an exceptional request according to the norms for fidelity in relationships and one I think any person can reasonably refuse.
 
Honestly, anyone can reasonably refuse anything. But the purpose of boundaries in a relationship is not to have secret boundaries. So no, if you have built a history of lying about your fidelity in the relationship, it's perfectly reasonable for your partner to want all the details. If you're uncomfortable with that, that's also totally reasonable to say "I won't disclose to that extent". But you have to TELL your partner that you are not willing to go forward disclosing that. So that she can make a choice about whether she wants to continue or not. But simply hiding it if she has been clear that she would like that info now, which is what has been recommended by many addicts in this group for as long as I have been here, is absolutely another betrayal.

It's also important to note that as a grown man and not a confused teenager learning to deal with hormones, no, it is absolutely not normal to walk around or scroll around getting hits of arousal from random people. That is distinctly an addictive behavior. It is not normal to objectify people so casually or to dwell so long on their bits and bobs that you experience the arousal. In that way, you absolutely have control over it. I can say with 100% honesty and surety that I have never experienced arousal to anyone I was not in a relationship with/pursuing once I was old enough to be out of the hormone craze and learned to respect people. I have noticed attractive people and gone "oh, he's cute!" Or "she has really nice legs", but never enough to totally disconnect that that is a human who I am not sexually engaged with. I don't need or desire to dwell on thinking about the details that make her legs nice, which is what would lead to arousal and is what would be violating to that person and betrayal to a partner if I had one. I'm not even currently in a relationship and I have no need to gawk at randos. I have lots of arousal and fantasy about a person at my gym who is openly a potential next partner for me. That's it. That's the experience when you haven't broken yourself, even when you are very high libido (in a relationship, I am a once+ per day person).
 
My wife wants me to text her when I'm going places and when I get there. I am totally fine doing it but I am having a really hard time remembering when I go to work. I get there and my brain just goes into work mode and I forget to text her until 10 or 15 minutes after I get there. I set reminders on my phone and even wrote a sticky note in my car but I just can't do it consistently! Anybody have some good tips?
 
NWRebooter said:
My wife wants me to text her when I'm going places and when I get there. I am totally fine doing it but I am having a really hard time remembering when I go to work. I get there and my brain just goes into work mode and I forget to text her until 10 or 15 minutes after I get there. I set reminders on my phone and even wrote a sticky note in my car but I just can't do it consistently! Anybody have some good tips?
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Its brainfog . You're recovering from PMO.

Its normal and i shouldnt let anyone mess with you.
For tips maybe a ginger tea (pure raw ginger) might help.
 
NWRebooter said:
My wife wants me to text her when I'm going places and when I get there. I am totally fine doing it but I am having a really hard time remembering when I go to work. I get there and my brain just goes into work mode and I forget to text her until 10 or 15 minutes after I get there. I set reminders on my phone and even wrote a sticky note in my car but I just can't do it consistently! Anybody have some good tips?
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My fiancée often does the same thing, and I forgot about it. She got upset, so I asked her why. It turns out she was worried about me driving to many different places. I reassured her that on some days, I would text her later in the day. She was okay with that arrangement. Now, she texts me when I forget to do so, without getting angry. This approach has worked for me, but it might not be the same for you. I wish you all the best.
 
NWRebooter said:
My wife wants me to text her when I'm going places and when I get there. I am totally fine doing it but I am having a really hard time remembering when I go to work. I get there and my brain just goes into work mode and I forget to text her until 10 or 15 minutes after I get there. I set reminders on my phone and even wrote a sticky note in my car but I just can't do it consistently! Anybody have some good tips?
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Maybe you could set her up with the find my phone app version on your phone, That way if you do forget, or if she's just in a moment where she's needing to know she has full access to where you are.

There's also an aspect of her needing you to be vocally accountable too I would guess. She probably feels a huge sense of relief when you tell her where you are and where you are going.

The find my phone option might just be an extra layer that may help in those moments when she needs extra assurance.
 
Warfman said:
Maybe you could set her up with the find my phone app version on your phone, That way if you do forget, or if she's just in a moment where she's needing to know she has full access to where you are.

There's also an aspect of her needing you to be vocally accountable too I would guess. She probably feels a huge sense of relief when you tell her where you are and where you are going.

The find my phone option might just be an extra layer that may help in those moments when she needs extra assurance.
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100%! My entire family has always had this. I usually check to make sure kids got to where they were going. Although sometimes I just look to see where my parents are, lol so if they are home I know I can call.
 
Warfman said:
Maybe you could set her up with the find my phone app version on your phone, That way if you do forget, or if she's just in a moment where she's needing to know she has full access to where you are.

There's also an aspect of her needing you to be vocally accountable too I would guess. She probably feels a huge sense of relief when you tell her where you are and where you are going.

The find my phone option might just be an extra layer that may help in those moments when she needs extra assurance.
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I also use it to see if they are driving before I send a text or call. I will not do it even though they all have Blu tooth.
 
Warfman said:
Maybe you could set her up with the find my phone app version on your phone, That way if you do forget, or if she's just in a moment where she's needing to know she has full access to where you are.

There's also an aspect of her needing you to be vocally accountable too I would guess. She probably feels a huge sense of relief when you tell her where you are and where you are going.

The find my phone option might just be an extra layer that may help in those moments when she needs extra assurance.
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Yeah, we use that. It's definitely the need for me to be accountable.

Fortunately, I remembered today. Just gotta stay on it!
 
CrushedandLeaving said:
It's also important to note that as a grown man and not a confused teenager learning to deal with hormones, no, it is absolutely not normal to walk around or scroll around getting hits of arousal from random people. That is distinctly an addictive behavior. It is not normal to objectify people so casually or to dwell so long on their bits and bobs that you experience the arousal. In that way, you absolutely have control over it. I can say with 100% honesty and surety that I have never experienced arousal to anyone I was not in a relationship with/pursuing once I was old enough to be out of the hormone craze and learned to respect people. I have noticed attractive people and gone "oh, he's cute!" Or "she has really nice legs", but never enough to totally disconnect that that is a human who I am not sexually engaged with. I don't need or desire to dwell on thinking about the details that make her legs nice, which is what would lead to arousal and is what would be violating to that person and betrayal to a partner if I had one. I'm not even currently in a relationship and I have no need to gawk at randos. I have lots of arousal and fantasy about a person at my gym who is openly a potential next partner for me. That's it. That's the experience when you haven't broken yourself, even when you are very high libido (in a relationship, I am a once+ per day person).
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I think perhaps you're misunderstanding the nature of male sexual attraction. It doesn't require you to dwell on anyone's appendages, you look and it's an instantaneous sexual attraction - it's almost mechanical. Fantasy is not a requirement, stimulation is very visual. I understand that's not the case for you but I don't think you can universalise your experience here, especially not in terms of applying it to the male sex.

I think you underestimate also the extent to which people generally are bombarded with sexualising images that can elicit arousal. Advertisements, television, social media... I think it's a fairly well-documented phenomenon the extent to which bodies are now objectified and sexualised in media. So, for someone that's trying to break a porn habit, there's an awful lot of triggers they'll encounter without having sought them out at all. If they can experience that arousal 'hit' and not act upon it, I'd say most are accomplishing their primarily goal with relation to NoFap.

I agree, however, that if there is disagreement about what needs to be disclosed, you have a problem in your relationship. But I think it's an uhealthy dynamic if the other party requires you confess every time you find someone attractive. It's not an environment I think most would want to be in.
 
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NWRebooter said:
Yeah, we use that. It's definitely the need for me to be accountable.

Fortunately, I remembered today. Just gotta stay on it!
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She needs to stop policing you. This isn't just exhausting for you. It's exhausting to her. Both of you will lose at this game.

You need to exert your own boundaries and learn to say, "No." You take responsibility for your own path to recovery so that she can take her own path of healing, focus more on herself, and less on you.
 
KevinesKay said:
She needs to stop policing you. This isn't just exhausting for you. It's exhausting to her. Both of you will lose at this game.

You need to exert your own boundaries and learn to say, "No." You take responsibility for your own path to recovery so that she can take her own path of healing, focus more on herself, and less on you.
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If only he had said no when it actually mattered, you know, like no to cheating, no to massage parlors. Letting someone know where you are at is not being controlled or policing, especially if you’ve been betrayed in this manner. It’s common decency. Even before iPhones my husband and I shared or informed each other of our whereabouts. If he wants a divorce, this would be a great way to hurry it along though, given what he’s done.
 
KevinesKay said:
She needs to stop policing you. This isn't just exhausting for you. It's exhausting to her. Both of you will lose at this game.

You need to exert your own boundaries and learn to say, "No." You take responsibility for your own path to recovery so that she can take her own path of healing, focus more on herself, and less on you.
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I definitely wouldn't stay with a man that would tell me "no" in a situation like this.
 
You may have more problems than just the problems with the confession that you made to your wife. You say "She hit you" and is "pain shopping." Both of her reactions are inappropriate. I wouldn't tolerate a woman hitting me any more than a woman should tolerate a man who hits her. Shopping as therapy will lead you into financial debt.

I would be questioning if she is a quality woman. Only you can answer that, and I hope she is a good woman. Regardless of the situation, don't let people act inappropriately just because you feel guilty.
 
nomo said:
You may have more problems than just the problems with the confession that you made to your wife. You say "She hit you" and is "pain shopping." Both of her reactions are inappropriate. I wouldn't tolerate a woman hitting me any more than a woman should tolerate a man who hits her. Shopping as therapy will lead you into financial debt.

I would be questioning if she is a quality woman. Only you can answer that, and I hope she is a good woman. Regardless of the situation, don't let people act inappropriately just because you feel guilty.
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Everything she’s done is extremely common with betrayal trauma. The pain shopping isn’t actually shopping. It’s a phrase to describe what partners do when the discover betrayal, ie: looking at the type of porn he looked at, searching through emails to see what he did. That’s pain shopping. It helps the betrayed keep their distance so they do not allow you close because they love you. The pain keeps them detached from you. I agree, she should not be getting physically violent but it is VERY common to respond this way when betrayed in this manner. This is why she needs to do her own healing from the massive damage he has personally done to her, so she doesn’t harm him or herself. Suicide is also common in the beginning for people betrayed.
 
Psalm27:1my light said:
Everything she’s done is extremely common with betrayal trauma. The pain shopping isn’t actually shopping. It’s a phrase to describe what partners do when the discover betrayal, ie: looking at the type of porn he looked at, searching through emails to see what he did. That’s pain shopping. It helps the betrayed keep their distance so they do not allow you close because they love you. The pain keeps them detached from you. I agree, she should not be getting physically violent but it is VERY common to respond this way when betrayed in this manner. This is why she needs to do her own healing from the massive damage he has personally done to her, so she doesn’t harm him or herself. Suicide is also common in the beginning for people betrayed.
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Thanks for the explanation, this is the first that I have heard of "pain shopping" and I misinterpreted it.
 
nomo said:
Thanks for the explanation, this is the first that I have heard of "pain shopping" and I misinterpreted it.
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Well, you gave me a good laugh. I can see how it would be misconstrued if you never experienced or heard of it. It’s a perfect description though. I feel the urge to do it any time my husband screws me over. But I’ve done a lot of work so I no longer give in and do it.
 
Starling said:
I definitely wouldn't stay with a man that would tell me "no" in a situation like this.
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Psalm27:1my light said:
Nope. He would be lucky if I stayed at all. Or divorced amicable. This shit is enough to make the kindest soul turn demon. My friends husband gave her hpv, which turned into cancer. Lucky her.
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Saving this relationship is the least of my worries.

OP needs to stop trying to cater to his wife's every demand, and stop allowing her to monopolize all the control over his program of recovery. I understand why she does it. But I don't care. OP needs to start treating himself as a person of value. Many of the concessions that he's making with his wife is shame-based behavior. Toxic shame is a nasty root that will subconsciously work against me. It will undermine and sabotage my conscious decision to refrain from lust and porn. I don't take it lightly. I see toxic shame as a common root problem with the majority of us addicts on this forum. It's one of the reasons we see a lot of chronic relapsing. It concerns me that we either don't recognize it or we choose to ignore it.
 
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