New journal

[Warren of fleabags]

Hello everyone,

I was on NoFap a few years ago and then wandered away from the community.

To explain briefly: like many of you I first discovered PM when I was a teenager. At the time I was unaware of the damage it would do underneath. As I grew older it became almost a daily routine for me to go onto my fave sites.

I have been with my wife for ten years now. She has caught me out a lot during those years and her patience with me has reached I think the very end point. She just does not trust anything I say and I don’t blame her. It’s been a few years since she last caught me until last night where I admitted to not watching P and M but substituting it with other material and lying about it. That’s the real issue - the lies.

I need to be the better person and the person she needs me to be. I genuinely fear a life without her, though my actions are certainly not a great showcase for this.
I am rebooting majorly and setting my goals. In the mean time I am hoping that honest conversations will help start to ease the relationship back into gear (though I know it will take a lot of time).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Hello everyone,

I was on NoFap a few years ago and then wandered away from the community.

To explain briefly: like many of you I first discovered PM when I was a teenager. At the time I was unaware of the damage it would do underneath. As I grew older it became almost a daily routine for me to go onto my fave sites.

I have been with my wife for ten years now. She has caught me out a lot during those years and her patience with me has reached I think the very end point. She just does not trust anything I say and I don’t blame her. It’s been a few years since she last caught me until last night where I admitted to not watching P and M but substituting it with other material and lying about it. That’s the real issue - the lies.

I need to be the better person and the person she needs me to be. I genuinely fear a life without her, though my actions are certainly not a great showcase for this.
I am rebooting majorly and setting my goals. In the mean time I am hoping that honest conversations will help start to ease the relationship back into gear (though I know it will take a lot of time).

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Do you and your wife know and understand betrayal trauma? You have severely damaged your wife with your lies. A good start would be the dvd “Helping Her Heal”, then the book Worthy of Her Trust. For her Intimate Deception by Sheri Kefer. It takes around 18 months to 3 years for her to heal if YOU do not lie. Her healing goes back to the very beginning with each lie and relapse. So, you have several issues and problems. You need to get into recovery, so you will need help to do that, she needs to get into recovery ( from what you have done)and she will need help, and the relationship needs to be healed. She will be behind you in healing, she needs to see concrete, sustained changes before she will even start healing. Once both of you are well on that path, with more work the relationship can be healed. My husband began recovery work 4 years ago. We both still struggle at times but life is so much easier, better and honestly just incredible… I will never go back to living with an active addict. Never. If you don’t change she will eventually leave. Or you will end up in a sexless, disconnected marriage, where she pretty much lives her life ignoring yours. If she’s still getting angry, you still have a slim chance. Once she no longer gets angry, you’ve lost.

 

[KevinesKay]

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I think a good start would be stepping up your game a bit. Get some more support by not only posting on NoFap every day, but also seeking out a group such as SA, SLAA, SAA, or CR. It seems like you're just trying to stop using willpower which is a horrible strategy. Trying new and different things will not only help you break free, but also will show your wife that you finally mean business.

 

[hope4healing]

Everything said above is right on, but I'd like to add one thing...when first trying to get in recovery, PA's very commonly think that recovery is all about stopping the behavior and telling the truth. While those things are obviously important elements of a successful recovery, by themselves, they are almost never enough to sustain long-term success. There's a difference between abstinence and recovery. Most addicts can go periods of time when they're abstinent...simply refraining from acting out. My husband has done it a hundred times, sometimes for weeks or even months at a time. But, that by itself never equals recovery, and it's only a matter of time before a relapse. The reason for that is because it doesn't address the real problem...whatever it is that drives you to use in the first place. Without digging deep and finding the root of the addiction, you'll stay in the addiction cycle endlessly.

This is the most challenging part, of course, and it's the reason so many struggle to succeed. No one likes dealing with difficult emotions. It's the reason addicts become addicts....to avoid doing just that. They instead choose unhealthy coping mechanisms (the addiction), and it works so well that it makes it very hard to see there's any other way. But, there are healthy ways to face tough emotions, and with time and a lot of hard work, anyone can learn them. You just have to be willing to commit to the process and actually do it, even when it's hard, even when you know it would be so much easier to just act out and make the uncomfortable feelings go away...briefly.

Working recovery sucks sometimes, but in the end, it's so worth it.

 

[Warren of fleabags]

Do you and your wife know and understand betrayal trauma? You have severely damaged your wife with your lies. A good start would be the dvd “Helping Her Heal”, then the book Worthy of Her Trust. For her Intimate Deception by Sheri Kefer. It takes around 18 months to 3 years for her to heal if YOU do not lie. Her healing goes back to the very beginning with each lie and relapse. So, you have several issues and problems. You need to get into recovery, so you will need help to do that, she needs to get into recovery ( from what you have done)and she will need help, and the relationship needs to be healed. She will be behind you in healing, she needs to see concrete, sustained changes before she will even start healing. Once both of you are well on that path, with more work the relationship can be healed. My husband began recovery work 4 years ago. We both still struggle at times but life is so much easier, better and honestly just incredible… I will never go back to living with an active addict. Never. If you don’t change she will eventually leave. Or you will end up in a sexless, disconnected marriage, where she pretty much lives her life ignoring yours. If she’s still getting angry, you still have a slim chance. Once she no longer gets angry, you’ve lost.

I think a good start would be stepping up your game a bit. Get some more support by not only posting on NoFap every day, but also seeking out a group such as SA, SLAA, SAA, or CR. It seems like you're just trying to stop using willpower which is a horrible strategy. Trying new and different things will not only help you break free, but also will show your wife that you finally mean business.

Everything said above is right on, but I'd like to add one thing...when first trying to get in recovery, PA's very commonly think that recovery is all about stopping the behavior and telling the truth. While those things are obviously important elements of a successful recovery, by themselves, they are almost never enough to sustain long-term success. There's a difference between abstinence and recovery. Most addicts can go periods of time when they're abstinent...simply refraining from acting out. My husband has done it a hundred times, sometimes for weeks or even months at a time. But, that by itself never equals recovery, and it's only a matter of time before a relapse. The reason for that is because it doesn't address the real problem...whatever it is that drives you to use in the first place. Without digging deep and finding the root of the addiction, you'll stay in the addiction cycle endlessly.

This is the most challenging part, of course, and it's the reason so many struggle to succeed. No one likes dealing with difficult emotions. It's the reason addicts become addicts....to avoid doing just that. They instead choose unhealthy coping mechanisms (the addiction), and it works so well that it makes it very hard to see there's any other way. But, there are healthy ways to face tough emotions, and with time and a lot of hard work, anyone can learn them. You just have to be willing to commit to the process and actually do it, even when it's hard, even when you know it would be so much easier to just act out and make the uncomfortable feelings go away...briefly.

Working recovery sucks sometimes, but in the end, it's so worth it.

Thank you everyone for your words of advice. Everyone of them speaks so much truth in where my wife and I are right now. Over the last couple of days we have had long conversations about this. She is willing to give me one more chance and I know that I cannot let this one pass. We also spoke last night about why I do it in the first place. The sad fact is that I couldn’t even answer that anymore - but I know that as I seek help and support this question will continue to be asked.

 

[Warren of fleabags]

Day 3 AM - the last couple of days have understandably been filled with very mixed emotions. I have enquired for more information from SA, and have been looking to sign up to counselling which is offered by my work place. In terms of my own actions, I have looked to majorly reduce my screen time on my phone, which is where the stuff was happening. When we come in from work, I have placed it to one side and just left it. I know this is not simply a fix for this but I feel like at least it’s a start.

My wife and I have had long talks about this issue over the last few nights. She made the point that, if there is no reason as to why I keep doing it unless it’s just habit, then all I need to do really is break it and stop it. This obviously makes me look even worse in the grand scheme of things, but I know I have to accept this. This is no time for pride. I have been the worst kind of person and I’m lucky she is even still talking to me.

 

[hope4healing]

She made the point that, if there is no reason as to why I keep doing it unless it’s just habit, then all I need to do really is break it and stop it. This obviously makes me look even worse in the grand scheme of things, but I know I have to accept this. This is no time for pride.

I would agree that it's just a matter of stopping the behavior if it is indeed just a habit. However, from what you've said, I would be willing to bet it's not that simple. Just because you don't clearly see the reason why you act out doesn't mean there isn't a reason. I think it's rather common for addicts to be unaware of the root of their addiction when they first accept that their behavior is a problem. It might take awhile to really figure it all out, and oftentimes it requires the help of a good CSAT, too. Because the addiction helps you avoid dealing with difficult emotions for so long, the ability to introspect doesn't come easily, and some people find there's a lot more to unpack than they ever realized. But, if you truly want recovery, you'll get there. It probably won't be easy, but you'll still get there.

Getting into a support group is a really good idea so I hope you find one that works for you, and I also think the reduced screen time will be very helpful, especially because you mentioned an issue with p-subs. They can be just as detrimental to recovery as the real thing so stay mindful of that. It's great that your work offers counseling as that can be an invaluable resource in your recovery. Hopefully there is a qualified CSAT available because having a therapist who's unqualified for your particular situation can cause more harm than good. The same goes for your wife if she decides to seek professional help...she needs to find someone who's qualified in betrayal trauma.

 

[Warfman]

I would agree that it's just a matter of stopping the behavior if it is indeed just a habit. However, from what you've said, I would be willing to bet it's not that simple. Just because you don't clearly see the reason why you act out doesn't mean there isn't a reason. I think it's rather common for addicts to be unaware of the root of their addiction when they first accept that their behavior is a problem. It might take awhile to really figure it all out, and oftentimes it requires the help of a good CSAT, too. Because the addiction helps you avoid dealing with difficult emotions for so long, the ability to introspect doesn't come easily, and some people find there's a lot more to unpack than they ever realized. But, if you truly want recovery, you'll get there. It probably won't be easy, but you'll still get there.

Getting into a support group is a really good idea so I hope you find one that works for you, and I also think the reduced screen time will be very helpful, especially because you mentioned an issue with p-subs. They can be just as detrimental to recovery as the real thing so stay mindful of that. It's great that your work offers counseling as that can be an invaluable resource in your recovery. Hopefully there is a qualified CSAT available because having a therapist who's unqualified for your particular situation can cause more harm than good. The same goes for your wife if she decides to seek professional help...she needs to find someone who's qualified in betrayal trauma.

I can attest to triggers being complex. For me it's taking a long time to process it all. Because so much if it is truly a subconscious reaction to an external stimuli.

I think it's important to not come down too hard on myself that it's a hopeless cycle and acknowledge that even though many of the stimuli can not be changed by me. I still control my reaction to it.

 

[hope4healing]

I think it's important to not come down too hard on myself that it's a hopeless cycle and acknowledge that even though many of the stimuli can not be changed by me. I still control my reaction to it.

I wasn't saying it's a hopeless cycle or that anyone should be hard on themselves. In fact, I was saying the opposite. He seems discouraged by the fact that he can't answer "why" he turns to the addictive behaviors, and I was saying that it's ok and that he can still figure that out as he works recovery.

I agree 100% about having control of your reaction to stimuli that you didn't seek out. In today's world, there are always going to be triggers around. It's inevitable. It's the seeking out of p-subs that I was cautioning about...they might seem harmless because they're not 'real' P, but they can make all the difference between success and failure in recovery efforts.

 

[Warfman]

I wasn't saying it's a hopeless cycle or that anyone should be hard on themselves. In fact, I was saying the opposite. He seems discouraged by the fact that he can't answer "why" he turns to the addictive behaviors, and I was saying that it's ok and that he can still figure that out as he works recovery.

I agree 100% about having control of your reaction to stimuli that you didn't seek out. In today's world, there are always going to be triggers around. It's inevitable. It's the seeking out of p-subs that I was cautioning about...they might seem harmless because they're not 'real' P, but they can make all the difference between success and failure in recovery efforts.

Yea I was just trying to add to what you stated because I agreed. It can get easy to be hard on ourselves especially when we know something is bad but don't know why we do it or don't know how to stop. I think this is something SOs don't understand fully when their partners are struggling. I venture to guess most here started as 12 year old kids. So it can be hard to identify whats happening exactly. Many of my relapses (and I bet others too) happen in a state of discouragement and feeling like we are a lost cause. I don't think that's the truth but those feelings creep in and it's important to not blame ourselves for having those feelings. It's important to face them realize they are natural, that we are safe, and respond in a healthy way.

 

[Warren of fleabags]

I wasn't saying it's a hopeless cycle or that anyone should be hard on themselves. In fact, I was saying the opposite. He seems discouraged by the fact that he can't answer "why" he turns to the addictive behaviors, and I was saying that it's ok and that he can still figure that out as he works recovery.

I agree 100% about having control of your reaction to stimuli that you didn't seek out. In today's world, there are always going to be triggers around. It's inevitable. It's the seeking out of p-subs that I was cautioning about...they might seem harmless because they're not 'real' P, but they can make all the difference between success and failure in recovery efforts.

Thank you - and that is the real issue in that I have seeked them out as a sub for the real thing - it’s not been an accident or seen by chance. This is what needs to stop.

 

[Warren of fleabags]

Day 4 - yesterday started off with one of the children pulling our heated towel rail off of the wall, potentially causing quite a lot of damage to our pipes. We have a plumber coming to see it today but my wife felt even more discouraged and downbeat about everything going on. To know that I am part of the cause of her feelings is terrifying and shameful. I’m supposed to be a grown up and I’ve acted like a spoilt child.

I have filled out a form for counselling and hope to hear from them within the next few days. My wife agreed that this was the best option right now, before I look at other support networks. The rest of the day wasn’t too bad. I am keeping up the reduced screen time, though I also don’t want to make a show of it. I worry that putting my phone to one side of me and not looking at it will seem more of an act than anything else, but maybe I am just thinking too much into this.

 

[Warfman]

@Warren of fleabags

This show has really helped me. In other ways than just P. But this one I think is really good.

 

[Warfman]

Here's another good one.

I've listened to these and others many many times. I hear things differently each time as well as I process my feelings.

This one in particular I need to make a post in my forum on.

 

[Psalm27:1my light]

Day 4 - yesterday started off with one of the children pulling our heated towel rail off of the wall, potentially causing quite a lot of damage to our pipes. We have a plumber coming to see it today but my wife felt even more discouraged and downbeat about everything going on. To know that I am part of the cause of her feelings is terrifying and shameful. I’m supposed to be a grown up and I’ve acted like a spoilt child.

I have filled out a form for counselling and hope to hear from them within the next few days. My wife agreed that this was the best option right now, before I look at other support networks. The rest of the day wasn’t too bad. I am keeping up the reduced screen time, though I also don’t want to make a show of it. I worry that putting my phone to one side of me and not looking at it will seem more of an act than anything else, but maybe I am just thinking too much into this.

Making changes such as putting your phone away, will at first seem like an act. This is where time and consistency does help with healing. Only time and consistency will prove it’s not an act, not temporary, and a true change. One of the hurdles for us has been, that with the changes, comes a whole range of feelings. Not all good. For instance, in 27 years my husband only cleaned the kitchen twice. This was a huge area of contention. Since recovery, he has made sure the kitchen is cleaned almost every day. Before recovery, he was constantly on his phone first thing he’d grab in the morning and last thing at night. Now, he gets up and makes me breakfast, takes one of the kids to work then we go out for the day. Last thing he does at night? Talks to me,while massaging my back, sometimes its a few minutes, sometimes for hours. He’s been consistent now for almost 3 years. I no longer think or feel like it’s an act.

 

[KevinesKay]

We also spoke last night about why I do it in the first place. The sad fact is that I couldn’t even answer that anymore

My wife and I have had long talks about this issue over the last few nights. She made the point that, if there is no reason as to why I keep doing it unless it’s just habit, then all I need to do really is break it and stop it. This obviously makes me look even worse in the grand scheme of things, but I know I have to accept this.

I'm going to attempt to answer this question. Why do I do this behavior?

I seriously thought and was experiencing in my mind the greatest feeling in the entire world by having physical sex. And when I say sex, I don't mean sex in the context of a relationship. I just mean the physical act. Doing the nasty. It didn't have to be with someone I liked or with someone I even knew. In my reference frame, there was no better feeling that came close to 1/10th of the feeling that I got when I was physically "doing the nasty". Of course, since I was too young at that time to find anyone to have sex with, I resorted to fantasy with MB, which escalated to porn. Over the course of years, I successfully conditioned my mind to continually use fantasy and lust, shoot myself up with dope, and left myself wanting more.

Although I saw how my behavior was damaging my life and my relationships with others, I couldn't stop because all the benefits of a sober life, greater self-esteem, better relationship with God, better work performance, better grades at school, better relationships, didn't exceed the astronomically high amount of value that I placed on porn. The diagram below explains it well.



So my conscious and subconscious self were simply making the logical decision. If porn is so incredibly valuable, why give it up?

But the truth is porn has no value. It's worth $0. It's completely worthless. Porn doesn't cure stress, it creates it. It doesn't relieve anxiety, but leaves me more anxious. Porn doesn't feel a void, it creates one. Because after the dopamine wears off, I'm left feeling more stressed, anxious, obsessing, craving, then ever before. And pleasure? The only pleasure I received from it was the pleasure of relieving the withdrawal pangs that were caused by porn to begin with. That's not pleasure. That's a lie, an illusion, a miserable existence.
But my mind, both consciously and subconsciously, was completely deluded. I was brainwashed.

The first step was allowing my conscious self to understand that giving up porn is not a sacrifice. How can something that has no value have any power over me? The only value porn really has is the value that I assign it. The only power that porn has is the power that I give it.

The second step was managing the fact that my subconscious is broken. There's no training or controlling my subconscious. I cannot teach it what I know. My subconscious is set on its old ways. So it's important for me to not expose my mind and eyes to those things which would cause my subconscious self to flare up and lead me to do destructive things that act against my own conscious moral beliefs.

I'm not sure if this all makes sense to everyone when it comes to answering that question. But it helps me to spell it out for myself. Thank you

 

[Warfman]

I'm going to attempt to answer this question. Why do I do this behavior?

I seriously thought and was experiencing in my mind the greatest feeling in the entire world by having physical sex. And when I say sex, I don't mean sex in the context of a relationship. I just mean the physical act. Doing the nasty. It didn't have to be with someone I liked or with someone I even knew. In my reference frame, there was no better feeling that came close to 1/10th of the feeling that I got when I was physically "doing the nasty". Of course, since I was too young at that time to find anyone to have sex with, I resorted to fantasy with MB, which escalated to porn. Over the course of years, I successfully conditioned my mind to continually use fantasy and lust, shoot myself up with dope, and left myself wanting more.

Although I saw how my behavior was damaging my life and my relationships with others, I couldn't stop because all the benefits of a sober life, greater self-esteem, better relationship with God, better work performance, better grades at school, better relationships, didn't exceed the astronomically high amount of value that I placed on porn. The diagram below explains it well.

View attachment 52509

So my conscious and subconscious self were simply making the logical decision. If porn is so incredibly valuable, why give it up?

But the truth is porn has no value. It's worth $0. It's completely worthless. Porn doesn't cure stress, it creates it. It doesn't relieve anxiety, but leaves me more anxious. Porn doesn't feel a void, it creates one. Because after the dopamine wears off, I'm left feeling more stressed, anxious, obsessing, craving, then ever before. And pleasure? The only pleasure I received from it was the pleasure of relieving the withdrawal pangs that were caused by porn to begin with. That's not pleasure. That's a lie, an illusion, a miserable existence.
But my mind, both consciously and subconsciously, was completely deluded. I was brainwashed.

The first step was allowing my conscious self to understand that giving up porn is not a sacrifice. How can something that has no value have any power over me? The only value porn really has is the value that I assign it. The only power that porn has is the power that I give it.

The second step was managing the fact that my subconscious is broken. There's no training or controlling my subconscious. I cannot teach it what I know. My subconscious is set on its old ways. So it's important for me to not expose my mind and eyes to those things which would cause my subconscious self to flare up and lead me to do destructive things that act against my own conscious moral beliefs.

I'm not sure if this all makes sense to everyone when it comes to answering that question. But it helps me to spell it out for myself. Thank you

I definitely agree. And with your attached illustration I think p is the one thing that is literally on demand that we can control completely in our lives. (When, where, how, we use. The type, etc.).

The other side we very much don't control. Like relationships, family, etc. And the others are often things that don't give instant gratification.

It's difficult to give up a quick easy feel good drug and replace it with something thats benefits are much more long term.

Very well written post @KevinesKay

 

[Warren of fleabags]

I'm going to attempt to answer this question. Why do I do this behavior?

I seriously thought and was experiencing in my mind the greatest feeling in the entire world by having physical sex. And when I say sex, I don't mean sex in the context of a relationship. I just mean the physical act. Doing the nasty. It didn't have to be with someone I liked or with someone I even knew. In my reference frame, there was no better feeling that came close to 1/10th of the feeling that I got when I was physically "doing the nasty". Of course, since I was too young at that time to find anyone to have sex with, I resorted to fantasy with MB, which escalated to porn. Over the course of years, I successfully conditioned my mind to continually use fantasy and lust, shoot myself up with dope, and left myself wanting more.

Although I saw how my behavior was damaging my life and my relationships with others, I couldn't stop because all the benefits of a sober life, greater self-esteem, better relationship with God, better work performance, better grades at school, better relationships, didn't exceed the astronomically high amount of value that I placed on porn. The diagram below explains it well.

View attachment 52509

So my conscious and subconscious self were simply making the logical decision. If porn is so incredibly valuable, why give it up?

But the truth is porn has no value. It's worth $0. It's completely worthless. Porn doesn't cure stress, it creates it. It doesn't relieve anxiety, but leaves me more anxious. Porn doesn't feel a void, it creates one. Because after the dopamine wears off, I'm left feeling more stressed, anxious, obsessing, craving, then ever before. And pleasure? The only pleasure I received from it was the pleasure of relieving the withdrawal pangs that were caused by porn to begin with. That's not pleasure. That's a lie, an illusion, a miserable existence.
But my mind, both consciously and subconsciously, was completely deluded. I was brainwashed.

The first step was allowing my conscious self to understand that giving up porn is not a sacrifice. How can something that has no value have any power over me? The only value porn really has is the value that I assign it. The only power that porn has is the power that I give it.

The second step was managing the fact that my subconscious is broken. There's no training or controlling my subconscious. I cannot teach it what I know. My subconscious is set on its old ways. So it's important for me to not expose my mind and eyes to those things which would cause my subconscious self to flare up and lead me to do destructive things that act against my own conscious moral beliefs.

I'm not sure if this all makes sense to everyone when it comes to answering that question. But it helps me to spell it out for myself. Thank you

I really like how you have set this out - and you are so right as well - porn has no value over me. The things of value that I have are ultimately the people who care about me. My wife should be the greatest value of all. But because of my cycle of destructive behaviour, I don’t see myself bestowing that on her all the time. That has to change and should have always been like that. I also definitely have felt myself try to train my self-conscience to follow a different path to where it would normally head down. I know that it will take time but I have to believe that I will succeed. The consequences for failure this time are too great.

 

[Warren of fleabags]

Moderation edit: Content removed by moderation team.

No - I’ll be sure to check it out, thank you

 

[Warren of fleabags]

Day 5 - yesterday was my birthday. My wife was amazing. Despite all the shit I have put her through she showed me such love and kindness it made me break down. In the afternoon she hugged me and kissed me properly for the first time since I confessed what I had been doing. I felt so happy at this point - I know not to expect this all the time but it gives me such hope.

I had contact from my counselling as well - my first sessions start Sunday morning. I am nervous about them, I won’t lie, but I know that I need to go through with this. For me and for my marriage - doing all this shows her how committed I am to change and that I never want to hurt her in that way ever again, but also I hope will give me strategies and ways forward in those situations.

Just to add finally - no P or P-subs or M since I started this journal.