No More Mr. Nice Guy Challenge: Becoming a Stronger Man. (Dudes Only)

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by Slayerknightlvl55, Oct 9, 2016.

  1. The human failure

    The human failure Fapstronaut

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    Eh, I had a mean dad and no mom. Which made me into a "nice guy" and eventually into a tranny abomination.
    So at least you didn't have to suffer that fate ;)
     
    pezzy⚡️ likes this.
  2. Sailor93

    Sailor93 Fapstronaut

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    I've read the first chapter now but I'm not completely convinced (yet). In the subchapter "doing something different" the author says at one point: "While doing everything the opposite (way) may not be the answer for breaking free from the Nice Guy Syndrome, doing some things different is." I agree with the author that I as a nice guy should do some things differently. With the emphasis on some things. Things like saying no to people, setting boundaries, etc. But on the next page he continues with the improvements that occur when you stop being a nice guy. I really believe that some of the points listed here are improvements. Things like "stop seeking the approval of others", "face your fears", "deal with problems directly". But he also lists things like "Accept yourself as you are" and "make your needs a priority".

    If you accept yourself as you are, why would their be any need for self improvement. Why would you excersise. Why would NoFap exist if it wasn't for people trying to improve themselves. In breaking free activity #2 he says that the only reason to do some things in life different is if there is a significant compelling reason to do so. I have no significant compelling reason to do Crossfit, I just want a physical challenge and become fitter and stronger. In relation to the NoFap subject, a compelling reason might be ED or Social disfuntion. But many guys on this forum just want to stop the habit of watching porn and in this way improve their lives. Why would you stop smoking (marihuana) if there is no compelling reason to? Maybe you can't find a job because most companies do drug tests these days, that's a compelling reason to stop smoking marihuana. But that shouldn't be the reason to stop this habit. It should be that you want to become healthier or don't want your kids to know that their dad is a marihuana smoker. So I hope that the author elaborates more about "accepting yourself as you are" in the next chapters and gives a more refined explanation about which areas in life where you can be yourself. I will continue reading the book, but I hope that the conclusion isn't that everybody should do as they want just because that's the way you are.

    Secondly, making your needs a priority is absolutely true, but aren't needs a give and take situation? Making your needs a priority seems a bit drastic. Providing for your wife needs (as an example) is also drastic, but doesn't the solution lie somewhere midway?
     
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  3. SyrusDrake

    SyrusDrake Fapstronaut

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    That's exactly what irks me about the whole premise.
     
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  4. Slayerknightlvl55

    Slayerknightlvl55 Fapstronaut

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    Damn. I guess you'd have to buy it. In my opinion, it's worth buying. Like the most important book any man should have in this age.
     
  5. Tekkadan

    Tekkadan Guest

    I have the book as well! It's great. Visit my thread "Iron flower", I too am working on become a stronger man.
     
  6. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    It was two weeks ago someone posted here so I'll rekindle the thread.

    I am currently reading it and so far I am really liking it. A lot of things in the book only affect me like 30-40%, but nevertheless I still have these problems.
    As it is so often, it's not about that you become an egoistic, self-centered douche, it's about being yourself.
    The saying goes, if you don't like yourself, how can someone else like you?
    And this is what the book is about.
    Saying having a mom made you a nice guy is typical oversimplification that produces more problems then it solves.
    The book often enough says that the "nice guys" also had no father available, so no male role model.

    Around here the book is available on amazon, and also the pdf is still up.
    It's less then 10$ so I'd suggest buy it if you like the pdf.
    I bought it.
     
  7. IsThisANewLife

    IsThisANewLife Fapstronaut

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    Hey guys
    Too bad this thread has been slowly dying down for the past few weeks; I quickly read through it a few days ago, and ended up buying the book.

    Gotta say I skipped a number of the Breaking Free Activities mentioned, but I thought I'd at least do this one (#37, my lucky number ;) ): "Find a safe place to talk about the following issues" - this sounded to me as one of the more important steps for working towards a healthier love/sex life and since, sadly, I haven't yet found a live 'safe person' (as mentioned in the book) to talk to about PMO and sex in general, I thought I'd talk about it here.

    >> "Your sexual history: earliest sexual memory, childhood experiences, sexual violation and trauma, sexual issues in your family, first sexual experience, adult sexual history".
    My earliest memories go back to 'sex games' we used to play when I was a kid, first with a family friend (we were both around 7 or 8yo), then again with one of my younger sisters (when I was around 10 to 12, and she only a couple of years younger). We used to kiss, and fake making out. Funny how I only remembered these games a few minutes ago, as I sat down to write this... so much for being the "not too fucked up PMO addict" I used to think I was. Those are the first times I remember being aroused though, so I think they are worth mentioning.
    I was 'lucky' to grow up in a loving Christian environment, in which I had little fear of any issues of 'violation and trauma'. However, I cannot remember any serious talks with my parents about sexual matters (except one awkward family reunion filled with awkward silences) and therefore my first sexual experience was 'accidentally' MO-ing in my bedroom (I was 17 or 18 by then, iirc).
    That's when I started PMO, which has been a recurring part of my life ever since.
    My 'adult sexual history' is void of anything worth talking about. I feel like I 'connect' with people easily enough, but am so terrified of creating an actual bond with anyone (and women in particular) that I literally fly away before anything meaningful can happen (Literally: last summer I actually ran out of a club after a girl kissed me - did I mention I'm supposed to be 24yo? :confused: )

    >> "Ways in which you have acted out sexually: Affairs, prostitution, peep shows, 900 numbers, use of pornography, exhibitionism, fetishes, etc."
    Why, "luckily", PMO is as far as I've been. I'd love to say that it was because I realised how unhealthy it has been for me - but honestly, the religious environment I grew up in and the fear of going any further are more realistic reasons.

    >> "Your dark side: Those things that even you have a hard time looking at in yourself - fantasies, rage, offending behavior"
    I used to fantasize about older ladies, and I even went so far as PMO-ing whilst thinking about some of my friends' mothers, or some of my mother's friends. I believe that these episodes have died down slowly for the past year since I started NF. Hopefully indefinitely.

    I didn't mean for this message to be this long: sorry about that.
    Thanks if you read everything up to this point,
    Thanks even if you skipped most of it.
    I don't expect any answers - though advice on how to work on my self discipline, get a grip on my masculinity, or have meaningful connections with ladies would be appreciated.

    Stay awesome guys, keep fighting the good fight. :)
     
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  8. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    Hey man, nice someone else got into this. :)
    I read the book as well after reading this post but it was already quiet when I finished it. So I can't say much more than there's the two of us at the moment. :)
    I've been neglecting the breaking free activities almost completely since I read another book directly after this one.

    The thing is also, this forum style here has a few inherent problems, a) it is anonymus. I think a lot of the value of these talking comes from it being with other people you know personally.
    and b) it gets cluttered and hard to follow up on quickly.

    I don't want to say that this is bad though. I'd happily use this chance to try to "build" a group, even if it is just hte two of us at the moment. :D
    Gotta start somewhere at least. :)
     
  9. IsThisANewLife

    IsThisANewLife Fapstronaut

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    I kinda agree about the limits of anonymity: I feel it makes it easier for people like me (who have a tendency to get scared of opening up about personal issues) to say what they feel, but it does make it harder on people trying to help, as they know very little of the context.

    I sure hope we can manage to re-kindle talks about this book (or any other, for that matter), as it's been the first time I actually committed to reading a whole self-improvement book :cool:. I'm curious, by the way: what was the other book you read 'directly after this one'?

    Also, who do people use as their 'safe people'? Friends? Family? Accountability partners?
     
  10. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    The safe people are like close friends you can trust, brother, best friends such stuff, but I also believe the group can act as such (given you meet irl).
    But, safe people can also be on the internet. If I understand this correctly, the idea is someone who tracks your progress and someone who you can ask if you're in a tight spot.

    The idea in this is that you have to get out of your shell / comfort zone and as you said yourself it's hard opening up in person, but relatively easy on the internet. I'm stuggleing with the opening up a lot as well. I gave the book to my closest friend recently, hoping he will read it. I could imagine to some degree that accountability partners could work, given they want to. This could maybe be advanced to the degree of a closed skype/whatsapp group with group call sessions. Assuming everyone read and understood the book you could use these groups as portraied in the book. Voice/Video Chat would be kinda neccessary I'd imagine, though. (Breaking the anonymity and all that).
    But someone would also have to know to to lead the groups dialoge. This is the hardest thing I imagine.

    The book I read after this was "Models" by Marc Manson. Where "no more Mister Nice Guy" is mainly about male health, models addresses the talking to women/ flirting and all that, which is the bigger problem for me. Nonetheless I'd recommend both books to be read in this order, first NMMNG then Models. The ideas kinda complement each other and Manson even suggest to read No More Mister Nice Guy. :D
     
    vibemaker likes this.
  11. Enki

    Enki Fapstronaut

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    For most shoplifted book of all time, no one seems to like the Bible. Haha.
    The other two are: Mastery by Robert Greene and Bang by Roosh V.[/QUOTE]

    I second Mastery by Robert Greene. It's definitely an eye-opening book that lets you think of your life long-term and opens up a whole new deeper world you may never know even existed. But you must put it to work.

    There's a whole slew of books I would recommend to people in terms of self-improvement and essentials, all depending on what goals they want to focus on first.
     
  12. Ninja assassin

    Ninja assassin Fapstronaut

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  13. Fap_Doc

    Fap_Doc Guest

    Thank you cunt
     
    staub likes this.
  14. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    I second Mastery by Robert Greene. It's definitely an eye-opening book that lets you think of your life long-term and opens up a whole new deeper world you may never know even existed. But you must put it to work.

    There's a whole slew of books I would recommend to people in terms of self-improvement and essentials, all depending on what goals they want to focus on first.[/QUOTE]

    If you'd reccommend these books i'd check them out but I think at some point it might be too much information? Like some form of procastrination by preparing more and more.
     
    IsThisANewLife likes this.
  15. stygian

    stygian Fapstronaut

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    I am reading this book as well. 5/6 of the way through.

    I have realized many things about myself that pertain to what the other is saying. While I will not get into my past now, there is much that is explained by the author.

    I take very little care of myself now and mostly think about others. In fact almost all my time is spent on trying to help others/make a contribution to society. If I do something for myself, like watch a movie, I feel bad for spending that time. Also, he stresses the importance of male relationships. I have not recently had any strong male relationships. Nor do I do any of the traditional male activities that he advises (not that the specific activities are important).

    Some of the changes I have made/are making: I am taking better care of myself and thinking about the things that I can do for myself. I am going to join a poker group. It's something I played years ago but not recently.

    From reading through this thread, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding by people who have not read the book. Someone clearly confused this book with another book about being an alpha male. This book has nothing to do with that. The point of the book is to accept yourself for who you are (which is what a previous person on this thread thought was the exact opposite of the book). About being self-centered, that is confusing the intended audience, which is people like myself who have literally sacrificed an extraordinary amount in taking care of others, while not taking care of themselves and letting them get run down because they are not worthy and are not worth anyone doing anything for, or spending any time on, including themselves. The nice guys described do not do any of the daily things that you do for yourself, because they think they are inferior. I can remember conversations I had with others about career decisions, and thinking only in terms of other people, and being surprised when they suggested that I should think about what I would want, and that is the way that they make decisions! I thought that they were self-centered and I was right, but actually I have gone too far in the other direction. I have a hard time even listing activities that I enjoy, which is something that I am going to work on, so I can implement those activities.

    About accepting yourself, that also is not contrary to self-improvement. The people who accept themselves as they are, are paradoxically the ones who can devote the most effort to self-improvement.
     
    IsThisANewLife likes this.
  16. IsThisANewLife

    IsThisANewLife Fapstronaut

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    That was my fear as well. I'm currently working on the idea of re-reading No More Mister Nice Guy (I literally finished it last night), and trying to get some of those "Breaking Free Activities" going - might be an option before I start reading something else (fun fact, we must have some projects in common staub, because I also planned on reading "Models". Possibly heading towards "Mastery" once I'm done with those. Thanks for the suggestions.)

    Then again, unless you actually wait to finish a book before putting the advice you find accurate into practice, I don't think it can be considered as procrastination. Just a random thought.

    As I mentioned, I finished reading No More Mister Nice Guy (and might re-read it soon), and I wanted to share some thoughts:
    - Loved it. It was quite the eye-opener on a number of issues I didn't even know I had.
    - A problem (for me) is that I think I spent more time during this first read realising a number of my flaws, than internalising how to fix them. The way the book is written though, first with the issue, then with a number of ideas on how to improve, is quite thought provoking.
    - I don't 100% fit in the description Dr Glover makes of the Nice Guy's childhood: I probably had some abandonment experiences I am yet to understand, but I globally believe that other factors came into play to create the Nice Guy I've become.
    - The list given at the end of the book are words to live by.

    And as he mentions a number of times in his book, I don't think this should be a journey taken by one's self.
    So thanks for being around, guys.
     
  17. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    Need to clarify what I meant. :p
    By procastrinating I meant that you keep pushing it on because "you need to read more". So not just waiting till the book is finished but rather isntead of doing soimethinmg, reading more and more.
    Also, Glover assumes the extreme cases and even though one of them fits me perfectly, the others he usually takes as an example don't quite fit me. (Me is parents divorced, father no interesst, mother very hard working on the one hand, really showering with love on the other)
    Funny though, I too have a hard time really seeing how to "fix" myself after reading the book. :D
    But I think a lot comes from these groups then, which are substituted by the activities and the save persons in the book. So, yeah, gotta go do these activities.
    But I also think we can use this platform as a means to communicating. For a thread regarding this, we can simply put a tag in front of the title like [NMMNG] or such. Or we just continue a thread that is active. :)
     
    IsThisANewLife likes this.
  18. IsThisANewLife

    IsThisANewLife Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, I think I'm getting what you mean: I used to (and sometimes still) watch motivational and inspirational videos of Youtube (they tend to be shorter, and sometimes more direct than reading a whole book), but I ended up watching so many in one go that although I initially felt uplifted, it rarely lasted very long as I'd forgotten what the message was in the first one I'd watched. :eek:
    I guess "one step at a time" is key, here.

    However, I'm not sure it's right to hope that at any point in time, we'll have it "all figured out" about one book, and that only then can we move on to others. I get your point about "reading more and more" instead of acting on what you first read, but that's all about motivation and discipline... and that's what we're all here for, right? ;) Let's hope we find enough courage to actually do something valuable with all the information we'll be gathering here and there.

    I personally aim to act on 3 of the rules defined at the end of the book:
    - Do it now.
    - Be clear and direct.
    - Be good to yourself.

    Another question though: any thoughts on the 'healthy masturbation' process Dr Glover talks about? I know we all have different contexts, but I'm curious about what other people on here might think about it.

    P.S.: I totally agree with what you said about the interesting value of the groups he talks about, as a means of communication. I'm up for a new thread, if you want to make one! :)
     
  19. staub

    staub Fapstronaut

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    Personally, strongly agree with the healthy masturbation thing. But I think it should be further fleshed out for us nofappers. Sound kinda silly to say so but I think for us there might be some things to look out for when doing it.
    Like, a reboot should be mandatory (Allthough I think this goes without saying, really.)
    Need to read that part again and give it some thought. This might be something worth discussing with more experienced members of noFap, as they might have more insight.
    I often read about people doing more than a year of nofap and that is quite the accomplishment, so I guess there's more to look out for.

    Gotta go to a client now, I'll give it a read and maybe post a new thread regarding this aber giving it some thought.
    P.S.: Maybe 2 threads, I also saw there's communications, which is kinda like direct messaging but multiple people can be included. It's a closed group however... ^^
     
  20. Slayerknightlvl55

    Slayerknightlvl55 Fapstronaut

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    Wow, it's been a while. I got really swamped with school and moving to LA. (Bad time management mainly). I'm making a lot of new changes for this coming year and I'm gonna take up boxing in a couple of weeks. I've started over my Nofap Journey and my No More Mr. Nice Guy journey. So, the book is really different the third time reading it through. I'm on the first breaking Free Activity which asks me to seek help from a 12 step program, support group or therapist. After a year of reflection, I can honestly see why this is the most important step. The biggest hurdle I've had is to changing my life paradigm. It's changed quite a bit. I'm not a total Nice Guy anymore which is good but there are still some chinks in the armor (or subconscious). The book lists the Nice Guy Paradigm as: " If I can hide my flaws and become what I think others want me to be, then I will be loved, get my needs met, and have a problem free life." I'm already thinking my new paradigm should be: "If I am proactive, direct and honest with my needs, don't seek the approval of others, love myself completely and if I take the steps to get my needs met, only then will I be happier and more confident man." What do you guys think? What are your paradigms or life scripts?
     

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