Official Trump Rally Thread

The propagandists have really accomplished a lot over the years in your country.

I started noticing lately that there's talk in the US about 'socialism'. I looked into it and apparently the corporatist establishment and the right-wing media are railing against new ideas that started appearing in the public sphere.

I looked into it further and it turned out the 'new' ideas are among others unpaid education and healthcare; things that have been in place in most of the first world for many decades now.

A combination of cold war anti-Soviet propaganda pre-Reagan and the 40 years of rightist economics post-Reagan has made a huge impact on the American mentality. Strong enough to make people believe that free college means gulag, probably.

 

*Taxpayer-funded education and healthcare. I’m not necessarily opposed to it, but if that education is nothing but black feminist transgender queer interpretative dance instead of something useful like health sciences, then that’s wasted taxpayer money.

I get extremely cheap healthcare and even free when it qualifies for ACC, but I’m going to the US next month because even without those benefits, I’ll still have more money leftover there than I would here. Rent itself is cheaper in the area where my fiancee’s parents (she’s American) live per month than it is here in a crap flat for 2 weeks. Cost of living in general is more bearable.

Just because something offers “free” stuff doesn’t mean it’s prosperous.

 

@MLMVSS are you including education and healthcare in that cost-of-living calculation? People selling their houses to pay for surgeries and seniors still in college debt - that doesn't sound like prosperity to me man.

@brilliantidiot were FDR and Eisenhower communists? Their economics were to the left of most current Democrats. Sharing Tiananmen pics in response to Sanders is like sharing Auschwitz pics in response to Trump.

 

no, I can't see it

 

I'm living in one of those 1. World countries. Healthcare is for free, only that you have to wait 6 months to see a doctor, because he or she (We have no Zhe doctors as far as I know) is booked out.
Some people go there because they have a pimple that hurts, some retired people go there regularly because they are bored at home. You end up never getting treatment, because the therapist has only five minutes for you. And here is the thing: you cannot pay an upgrade to get something better, that would be unfair... OMG.

Education is kind of free, because you pay less than 500 Euro per year. However, you pay, with the time that you loose. Here again, the auditoriums are so filled that students sit on the ground or just don't go to the lectures. Many people just go to college because they don't know what else to do. They refuse to grow up and college gives them a good alibi for that. Many lectures are totally useless. I think, if I had to pay for that, I would question why this takes 5 years, why lectures are bad, why things are repeated from one year to another and I would have chosen my studies more wisely.

And it is not for free. It's financed by taxes, that you pay. Basically you have no choice, the government is taking your money before you can even see it. 40% are eaten up by bureaucracy and the rest is spent in a way you would never spend your money. You just loose the choice to do what you want with your finances.

It's not working, sorry. It's pretty easy: if you want efficiency, you need competition. I see it on myself.

 

"Better being grabbed by the pussy, than have a pussy for president" -- Katie Hopkins

 

@Vendettana I'm not French but I suspect we have a similar system. Your observations are spot-on but I can't disagree more with your conclusions.

Depends on what you mean by 'efficiency'.

The EU models usually have regulation that keeps the prices low and thus even though everybody has to chip in and pay via taxes for e.g. hypochondriacs and eternal students like you said, the whole thing ends up being cheaper, taxes included (unless you never go to a doctor or a university).

The downside(?) is that profit margins are much lower for hospitals, universities, pharma concerns, ... And the European banks are rich and powerful but not as powerful as the American ones which demonstrated that power 10 years ago when they brought down the whole world.

The upside is that 1. it's easier to lift yourself up since you cam become a lawyer, doctor, engineer, ... even if you come from a poor family and 2. less people die of preventable causes.

So if by efficiency you mean hefty profits and luxury treatment for select individuals, then you're right. If by efficiency you mean good living conditions for the non-rich majority, you're wrong.

 

I have. Typically the people still in debt years after university either chose terrible degree paths or they chose overpriced universities. It also only got worse when the government got involved in payments. Also its possible to get a good premium/deductible healthcare plan. Most of the cost comes from routine checks, not catastrophic events.

 

If I read the stats correctly, there's $1T in student debt total in the US with $300B held by 50+ yo borrowers. Are really so many people so dumb? I don't buy that.

Alright. Then make the government pay at least for those catastrophic events when they happen to those who don't have money. I don't think it's acceptable to have someone die just because she didn't win the lottery.

 

Yes, people are that dumb. They get useless degrees then wonder why they’re still in debt.

It’s not the government’s job to pay for people’s stuff. As I said, there are good healthcare options out there. Even then, 3 year waitlists (as is the case here with surgeries such as hip replacements and breast reconstruction) are quite unattractive.

 

I think, I disagree on that one. It was pure propaganda to say that the banks were entirely responsible for what happened 10 years ago. It is a mix of bad regulations, made by incompetent people who just wanted to get some votes. Obviously, the banks have their part of the guilt, but the governments made that possible.
Check out about Bill Clinton's reform of the "Clinton community reinvestment act".

His policy obliged the banks to give a certain part of the credit volume to non solvable people. The banks had to make loans to people who would never pay back.
Then there were the rating agencies, there were only three and two belonged to the same people. So there was no competition either, again, governmental policy made it impossible to open a new one.
And the ratings were paid by the banks (this is mandatory by the government to make these ratings before you sell a bond), so again, weak policy. I mean, obviously, when the bank pays for the rating, there will be a conflict of interest.

Moreover, and this is still valid today: The retirement funds in Europe are OBLIGED to buy certain bonds, they don't even have the choice, even if the investment has low, or no return at all. Here again I wonder: why should I pay for a retirement when the money is invested in Italian or French, or even German government loans with NEGATIVE interest rates? I prefer to take care of that myself.

From my point of view, the crisis in 2008 is due to bad regulations and policies, made by incompetent and vote greedy politicians. But hey, they had the media and those sold us the propaganda that it was only because of banksters.

Oh, and I'm not French, I just live here (and not for long I guess, as this is all falling apart here, the EU is doomed)