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Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by DAMN., Jul 11, 2019.
Pornography didn't make Ted Bundy a serial killer, the man was already messed up in the head.
I didn't say porn made him a serial killer though did i. So you think he was already messed up yeah? But he started killing in his twenties, never killed anyone when he was growing up ... before he hit puberty. Also his killing women was sexually motivated, he fucked their corpses. Why don't you try reading about it instead of telling me about something you know nothing about.
Guys, you need to chill and not make it so personal. Once you start insulting each other you are breaking the forum rules.
PIED = Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction.
It's best not to go by one or two extreme examples. One guy who got prostate cancer is merely anecdotal. In itself it doesn't prove anything. We have no way of knowing whether or not he would have got prostate cancer if he wasn't masturbating.
You did imply it, though, by bringing him up in a discussion about whether or not masturbation is good. Otherwise, why even mention him? But again, an isolated extreme case doesn't say anything about whether or not masturbation is good or bad for most people. Ted Bundy may also have enjoyed tap dancing, but that wouldn't prove that tap dancing is bad for everyone else.
This is really a complex issue, which some guys are trying to solve with the nearly impossible ideal of becoming completely non-sexual in thought and action.
Our sexual organs are alive and active; we are sexual beings; we must figure out how to deal with all that.
I am often discouraged because at nearly 47 years-old, I am only beginning to do that.
Guys have many kinds of sex problems around PMO, and everyone is doubly challenged to find a solution which best fits him.
@1978 demonstrates that to find that individual solution one must experiment.
Indeed, we learn more from our own direct experiences than by blindly following commandments.
Our PMO problems are confusing in large part because of the imprecise vocabulary we use in discussing these.
(Lately, I've be so confused myself.)
I like how @1978 has written a little glossary here.
There is no doubt that, as @1978 says, "Porn is the main problem." Definitely!
The confusion is about masturbation.
There is, according to @1978's glossary, a difference between "moderate masturbation" and "excessive masturbation."
To be blunt, "moderate masturbation" is jerking off because you get so horny you can't stand it any longer.
"Excessive masturbation" would be a compulsion, or masturbation to seek pleasure even when one has no driving sexual desire--when one is not really horny.
Porn would be used to stimulate that kind of excessive masturbation, and it wouldn't be very pleasurable because the body will be desensitized by its high frequency.
When we speak of "masturbation," it is implied that ejaculation is the end of it.
@DAMN.'s question seems to be more specifically about semen retention.
I'm interested in semen retention because I've concluded that my feeling of depletion is the result of the vital energy I waste ejaculating.
Masturbation need not end in ejaculation; masturbation and ejaculation may be separate.
The term "edging" seems to be used for masturbation without ejaculation; it still is basically masturbating.
I will not go so far as to say that masturbating or, more precisely, "edging" is at all healthy.
Edging, however, may be necessary to relieve sexual tension.
By edging, one will relieve the horniness which could be a compulsion for porn, or worse behaviors.
While edging itself may have negative aftereffects, it is ejaculation which causes the debilitating feeling of depletion and depression.
The positive side of this is that one retains his semen, which is a lasting source of energy and a force for well-being.
A man can retain his semen by edging while not suffering the maddening build-up of urges.
There is, however, a risk here which I myself must acknowledge.
Just as @1978 found that regular masturbation can be a "slippery slope" into porn, the same may happen with edging and semen retention.
After edging, one is less horny, but he still has sexual desires coming from the semen he is storing.
One must be continually aware of that.
I was researching masturbation and semen retention online, and as the online world is a dangerous place, one of the sites where this is discussed led me to a bad place.
(Be aware of your search terms!)
I had edged earlier that day and had 10 days of semen retention.
Although I had no urges for porn or more masturbation after edging for a while in the shower that morning, my brain responded to that porn site in the same old way.
A couple hours were lost, and I never did the things I planned for that Saturday afternoon.
My intention was to only edge for a while and retain at least some of my vitality.
I did that for quite a while, but clicking from porn vid to porn vid, I lost my focus and blew a load in my shorts.
Now, I'm depleted and depressed knowing that it will take my body weeks to recover.
Edging is a natural way to have some ease while retaining semen, but I must be fully aware of the urges which will still lie beneath the surface.
@1978 reports an inability to withhold ejaculation after a time of total abstinence.
The muscles in that region of the body would weaken when they are not used.
If a man wants to maintain his full sexual capability while recovering from porn addiction, edging with semen retention may be additionally necessary.
It would be exercise; it would keep the muscles around the sexual organs in shape.
This, in a strange way, will also be an exercise in self-control.
Not masturbating at all is perfect self-control.
Making oneself stop after a time of edging also requires considerable self-control.
When I've been masturbating, looking at porn, or both, I often have not been able to get out of it until I ejaculated.
Self-control is necessary here, indeed!
All the while, this is a way to experience and maintain one's sexuality, which is only natural, without the most negative of outcomes.
This thread @DAMN. started and this post by @1978 gave me a forum in which I could work out some of my thoughts about these things.
So, Thanks, Guys!
I understand that some fapstronauts will adamantly disagree with what I am trying to say here.
That's okay. This is a discussion. NoFap must not become a dogmatic religion.
A wide range of problems are described across these forums, and the views of fapstronauts are many.
Everyone here is first trying to identify exactly what is his problem.
Then, he searches for his own solution.
As I write and as each guy here writes, I hope each one of us gets closer to that.
Your reasoning as to whether that's true or not is subjective though.
You're pointing out a group of men that have a mental illness that also watch porn and assume it's exclusively tied to the porn while ignoring the fact that there's people that watch porn without having a mental illness. Have you also considered that maybe they watch more porn because they have a pre-existing mental condition?
That would be akin to taking a survey about the percentage of mental illness in the general population in a mental institution. Those rates are going to be really high, right? That's because you're ignoring the part of the population that doesn't support the conclusion you're trying to get.
This idea that rapists all have the 'same problem' and that their problem is exclusively pornography is ludicrous. In fact, since the invention of high speed internet porn, rape rates are actually down from what they were before.
Here's what I'll say about masturbation.
It's not inherently bad or 'unhealthy', but it isn't good either. I think masturbation, especially when done in moderation, isn't likely to lead to much more than feeling tired for a while and maybe having a little bit of haze for a few days if you're an addict.
It's porn that's the more severe culprit here.
Porn literally warps and overrides your brain's natural desires for sex, and turns it around into something very artificial and extreme. You start out like I did with hot bikini girls, and soon enough you've got multiple tabs of high definition porn with people that don't even...really look much like people anymore.
Bottom line, stay away from porn! And try to stay away from masturbation, at least for your reboot.
Rubbish, I have stated facts and I am pointing something out, not ignoring anything. Where did I say 'their problem is exclusively pornography' ? I think there are a lot of people on here who are upset because they don't want to hear it. Rapists are perverts and love porn, that is obvious.
Rapists may be perverts, and they may view porn, but correlation doesn't imply causation.
Ted Bundy used pornography as an excuse as to why he became a mass murderer, but the issue is far more complicated than that, and quite frankly, he had no right to blame what he did on porn.
And no, I'm not going to demonize masturbation as the cause of everyone's problems because I know that's not the case.
After masturbating, I don't tend to feel those feelings of depletion or depression. My theory is that people who experience that have something else going on. I've heard that we lose zinc when we ejaculate. If so, a simple solution is to eat zinc-rich foods or take a zinc supplement. And with the depression feeling, maybe there is something going on with serotonin, in which case that should be addressed by eating tryptophan-rich foods and making sure you have enough of related nutrients.
Because I almost always feel just fine after masturbating.
I don't particularly feel bad after masturbation either, that's why I take a neutral stance on it. I'm not going to say it's good but I won't demonize it either.
I think it really comes down to imbalances in hormones and brain chemistry, that's what this whole thing is about. NoFap can help you restore that.
As far as semen retention and the like goes, I think it's mostly pseudoscience aside from helping keep things in balance a little better.
There's a lot of anecdotal stuff flying round on NoFap.com, so it's best not to take everything said on these forums as 100% proven truth. I'm pretty sure that porn is bad, and it's easy to understand the science of why that is. Masturbation is more of a grey area. Wild animals masturbate, but they don't have access to porn. I think there's a big difference between masturbating once a month or once a week, for example, and masturbating 5 times a day when you should be working or socialising.
The effects of masturbation may vary from person to person.
We can also debate whether masturbation is good, bad, or neutral.
That may depend on how one masturbates and how frequently.
I would hesitate to say normal masturbation is entirely "bad," after suffering so much religious condemnation and shame over this as a teen.
When I respond to young guys in NoFap, I explain to them that they are young, their sex drive is accelerating, and all this is "okay."
Porn, however, is not debatable.
We all know its bad consequences from experience.
That's why we're here.
I couldn't agree more. People should differentiate between problems. Excessive MO is a real problem. Masturbating 5 or more times a day on daily basis FU your brain chemistry and depletes body of some essential minerals (Zinc in particular). By constantly releasing dopamine, oxytocin and vasopressin during O, you cause dopamine receptors deficiency (nothing besides MO or drugs gives you pleasure anymore) and numbness (oxytocin and vasopressin have analgesic effects).
I don't see a problem in MB if you can limit MO to a few times a month. The problem is, that most of us, long term addicts, can't do it in moderation. That's why we decide to stop M when we stop watching P.
What do you mean? I only said nice things.
People here need to understand that not everyone has the same problems, what worked for you may not work for someone else, or what makes you relapse may not make me relapse. Every man is a world.
You're right, sorry, I didn't mean you.