Overcoming Sexual Fantasy

I posted this on my journal but people here might find it useful:
I have ordered a book "Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies" and I am going to read up on it one reviewer on amazon states:
"I got a lot from this book. I'd especially recommend it to men with intense sexual fantasies who struggle to engage the woman in their life with all of their sexuality."

I also found this resource disclaimer: I don't fully agree with this therapist on everything -.... - they are basically where doctors were with smoking in the 1950s..

https://www.drmichaelaaronnyc.com/emotions-become-sexualized/

When strong negative emotions such as anger are experienced, they feel extremely uncomfortable and painful to tolerate, so the natural human impulse is to escape away or defend oneself from the pain. ......

Keeping all of this in mind, the dynamic in which a strong negative emotion becomes sexualized follows a similar process. When an emotion becomes too painful to tolerate, we may employ an unconscious strategy to sexualize it in order to avoid the pain. In essence, we are replacing pain with pleasure. Famed sexologist John Money, who I referenced in this previous article, described this process in terms of opponent-process theory, in which a painful experience can be compulsively repeated enough times that it becomes pleasurable. The painful experience would initially be replayed in order to achieve a sense of control over something that was previously experienced as out-of-control, and so in time would be experienced as pleasurable through repeated reinforcement.

 

I think we can positively visualize but not sexually fantasize - I think even the nofap founder made that distinction - not because we're addicts but like say, drinking to cure anxiety - its' just not a healthy thing to do and inevidibly it separates you from real sexual intimacy in the future because your wife, girlfriend whomever is competing with a fantasy.

 

I guess it's like discerning nudity and pornopraphy but here's my take:
visualization: about something real in your life where you're practicing or considering outcomes.
example 1: you want to ask a girl on a date you imagine it going well and you imagine her saying yes and you imagine you two having dinner.
example 2: you're considering several places for vacation, you imagine yourself in those places and nice (and bad) things that might happen to make a choice.
example 3: you decide to go to some place where you'll be on the beach so when working out you imagine yourself fit and around other fit people including fit women

fantasy is more of an escape unrelated to life...
example1: you're married and having problems so you fantasize about having affairs.
example2 : you're suffering self esteem problems so it's easier to give up and imagine yourself femdom
example3: (non sexual) you fantasize about being a pro athlete because you're life is a mess - but you're 54 years old...
- non of these really help you cope with life you just escape....

 

read up on OCD even if you're not - when the thought comes up just name it, label it and just say 'oh there's my x thought again' and watch it drift by.
also look up 'urge surfing' if you have an urge/ fantasy - focus on the part of the body it's effecting and describe the sensation (i feel a rush of adrenlin in my stomach/groin area etc) keep it clinical.

 

So much great stuff here. Thanks @MrVaughn for resurrecting the thread! And to @ivanhoe and others that are commenting. I long to be part of the conversation, but my time is severely limited due to my personal situation, but it's encouraging nonetheless. I promise to re-engage when things slow down for me. Fantasy is my ultimate escape, and as adversity has increased in my life, so has the tendency to fantasize, so this topic is more relevant to me than ever before.

 

I do want to respond to this. I tend to come at questions like this from a different perspective now. With recovery, it's become more of a lifestyle. A means of transforming my life to respond to adversity and my emotions in a healthier manner. So it's less about about will I ever be able to fantasize normally again and more about anticipating a time when I no longer want to fantasize as I used to. It's the same way with porn, alcohol, or any escape for that matter. As an addict I tend to idealize my compulsions and long to engage them without the consequences or the associated guilt and shame. This will forever remain a fantasy itself and will never be reality. If I long to fantasize normally again or view porn as a non-addict, I'm still stuck in my addictive thought patterns. I haven't recovered. My neural pathways that lead to my compulsions are still alive and well and receiving regular maintenance. However, if the fantasies don't have the same power over me as they used to. When abstinence is less about fighting and white knuckling through the urges and more about a conscious choice to engage in habits I know are good for me and not travel down a path that only ends in anger, shame and despair, then that's a walk of recovery.

That's the hope I hold to. The end result I crave. It's what will allow me to stand tall and accept all of my weaknesses, shortcomings, and mistakes, because I will no longer want to turn to my compulsions and numb out to life. I want to experience life, the negative and the positive, and courageously do so coming out the other side stronger than I did before.

 

yes times of high anxiety for me - it has taken a long time (litearlly years on NoFap!) to finally recognize these patterns... there are times my fantasies and fetishes have absolutely no allure but I still have sexual desire (I am not flatlined) I was never able to figure out the reasons until I really started looking for answers here. I am looking forward to reading the books I ordered on fantasy to find out the reasons for those specific ones- and then, address those needs in a healthy way.

 

@Optimum Fortitude, I think it can be different for everyone. I've had success in the past with defusing fantasies by writing them down. The point is to inject a dose of reality into the fantasy as a means of lessening its power. Ultimately, reality is the most powerful way to eliminate a fantasy. For example, I can fantasize about sleeping with an escort (never done it), and romanticize it and make it amazing, but if I were to actually go, find an escort, spend the money, go through with the act, it will never live up to the fantasy I created. It may open
the door to another compulsion and create more problems for me, so I'm not recommending actual reality itself as a means to help with fantasy, but the idea of reality.

How do you think a real life cuckhold experience would play out? How do you think you would actually feel during and after? What would be the fallout of your relationship? What would it do to your self-image? Would it create more intimacy or less with your SO? I can go in many directions with this, and it may or may not help, but that's the idea of writing fantasies down to analyze them. It's worked well for me with adultery fantasies. I start thinking about the reality and the destruction it would cause, and it's hard (not impossible) to keep it up.

 

Agree. It's become a block to reality.

yes and subconsciously sexualization everywhere.

i haven't tried it because i fear it would just turn into a soft porn literature - but if its treated like a written form of 'urge surfing' it might be worth a shot!

I have heard writing another end, or writing out or breaking the cycle (you imagine yourself realizing how stupid the fantasy is) can help but it takes a long time.. i haven't had so much success with this, I have had mild help using self hypnosis mp3's that help you imagine how after you feel like it was all kind of a waste of time..

Unwanted and the other Arousal book disagree on a lot of stuff but both think that fantasies are symbolic of and trying to cope with something..
Most say 'gone' is impossible but I disagree - though it takes a herculean effort. I quit smoking years ago, I don't have a tinge of an urge ever... i believe the same results are possible with fantasies -certainly fantasies have probably morphed for most of us - I won't go into the particulars of one - but i had one which has greatly diminished - to nothing really - since i changed my views toward that object (sorry I am so general here)

I do think that - reducing anxiety and increasing self esteem and confidence - and changing self talk via CBT all help quite a bit... not a quick fix but a good long term solution.

 

That's a great point about writing and a fair warning. I will say the times it has been most effective for me are when I've talked about fantasies in my journal. When writing them out, knowing they'll be read by others who follow me, there's no danger in it turning to erotica. It's far more analytical at that point, and I'm focusing less on specific details and more on diffusing the fantasy and bringing it out into the open. Important to note that not everything will work for everyone, and if something is triggering or causing more harm than good then definitely do not use that technique!

 

As mentioned on earlier posts i think there is a place for imagination, visualization - and visualizing an ideal self - maybe that's what can replace the sexual fantasies.

Another thing to borrow from visualization is to create an ideal space in the mind where you are 'save' to relax.