P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Your descriptions sound a lot like the experiences of my last two months. Don't worry about lustful thoughts and other stuff attacking you. I understand those cravings. For me it's like the brain is going between extremes while balancing itself. I'm coming up to the start of my 20th month and all what you seem to be going through is the exact same things I have been going through.

 

Thanks for sharing @DerJogge , it is good to have a resource like this so we can keep each other sane

 

Sometimes I'm tempted to paint a picture that is rosier than it truly is.

Right now, my portrait ain't too rosy.

The past 2 weeks have been pretty rough, and I fear that things are going to get worse before they get better.

Whenever morning wood isn't there, I'm usually doing pretty poorly.

I agree with what someone said about the overall mixture changing, but that the bad is still pretty bad. My lows are still pretty low, I've figured out.

I still haven't lost all of the optimism I accumulated a couple weeks ago, but I have definitely been taken down a couple notches.

Good thing is I'm able to see the forest for the trees much better, and I know, without question, that this period will inevitably end, but it's still not easy.

 

To all you guys in PAWS and to all guys with a longish streak now,

can you somehow determine a difference in your sex drive (which is just nature, thus normal) and your urges and cravings (which are due to addiction)? Since I grew up with porn, I'm now trying to figure out what is what, and what a normal sex drive would feel like.

 

Have any of you guys tried TRE(trauma release exercises)? Im getting more and more open to the idea that PAWS could be trauma that is stuck within the body. Trauma can be as little as parents divorcing in childhood or whatever, dont have to be abuse and stuff. I did TRE last night and felt good after the session and felt like some energy was released from my body in a good way. Today i still have paws symptoms but feel a little better but also more anxious which i guess is emotions i have to process. I will do this 3x times a week and update you guys. I had the same effect the first day i did wim hof but had to stop it because of insomnia it caused. I defiently know paws is real but we got to ask ourself why we got addicted in the first place. Perhaps PAWS could be majorly sped up by unblocking trauma energy that has been stuck. I know there have been a few posts about this as well in this thread. I will update you guys, i dont expect anything to happen but lets see

 

I've done TRE at one point, EMDR at another, and heaps of EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) ...which works all well for treating trauma. Done Wim Hof as well pretty regularly in the past. All of which helped me cope with insane cravings in the beginnings and stuck negative emotions in the further process. So, in this regard, as I've already posted elsewhere, I agree with you on the assumption that addiction needs sth to grow upon. Something like difficult childhood experiences, divorce, deaths of loved ones, loneliness and so on. I think those techniques are very beneficial to cope with those concomitant symptoms of emotional nature.

Yet, all those techniques did little to nothing to other PAWS symtoms, like insomnia, derealization, crippling brain fog, stomach pains, cracking joints, head pressure, dizzines and what have you....

Thus, I still believe it'll be a matter of time and abstinence to get rid of this shit as a whole. But methods, strategies, techniques that alleviate anything on this way are awesome of course.

 

I think you guys blame tooooo much stuff on recovery from pmo

 

And I think we've been through this discussion way too often by now.

 

More or less, we have the same PAWS, are they onset with you now? How do you cope?

 

51 months harmode????

 

And how many relapse during this period?

 

Oh man, this post definitely makes me question a lot of things regarding my reboot. Today I have completed 02 years successfully of No P and no M. Of these 24 months, 10-12 months is hardmode. There is no doubt that I am still battling PAWS but there is no doubt that I have improved significantly from where I started as well. 51 months is a lot of time especially if its hardmode. I don't know if there is any relapse in it or not because I thoroughly believe that full blown relapse during reboot screws up the brain significantly.

I do believe that option of therapist/psychologist should be explored if you are going through PAWS after 02 years of hardmode without any recovery. But only after this time period because there is no therapist in the world that can heal your brain physically or reverse the physical damage on your brain due to addiction. But yes, if someone is having issues in making a streak or constant relapse than for sure, therapist should be consulted.

There is now more than enough evidence of physical damage done to your brain by porn addiction and how only time can heal it. Be it, grey matter, fucked by reward pathways, chemical imbalance, lack of dopamine receptors etc etc. I know no therapist in the world can take away brain fog or pressure in my head when I am doing some logical problems at work. And I have seen improvements in that regard in last 02 years no matter how disappointed I am with the slow progress but I cannot deny the progress at all. My memory is all over the place as well and I have difficulty recalling some of the basic stuff but I would say that I am not as retarded as I felt like in the beginning. If I got 02 panic attacks daily, now its 02 panic attacks per week.

I am still not near to where I was mentally when I was addicted. Yes, I repeat, my mind was much "better" when I was addicted. But obviously, it was fueled by addiction and dependent on the high I got through PMO. There is no doubt that leaving addiction may unmask many underlying issues for some people which needs to be addressed actively. You cannot fix your parents or your family. That is just how it is and something that you have to live with. But a therapist may help you find some middle ground and peace to cope up with a difficult family.

Its quite a long post and I do believe that you are at a stage where perhaps just reboot and time is not enough and you need to actively pursue to sought help since 51 months is a very long time. Maybe @Don Quixote can also add something here

 

Time is what Will cure you definitely. However, 51 months of no harmode may not cure you totally base on your pmo history.

 

Already out of the difficult period. Only lasted about 2 weeks. Used to last ~1 month, maybe longer. By the end I was starting to feel despondent, but just as that sentiment starting invading my psyche I got out of it.

I'm still at about 60% strength, maybe less, but things are trending positively. I can actually see the results.

Fatigue is the first symptom of mine that is almost gone.

Sounds weird, but I'm starting to play my video game at a much higher skill cap.

Need to remain as vigilant as ever. Relapse is always a split second away. Don't think I'll ever be able to drop the patterns I've developed that allow me to avoid relapse. It'll be with me forever, most likely. Addictions this severe probably don't vanish.

One thing I've noticed: the presence of dreams is a major indicator that I'm doing well, mood wise. When I begin to dream, I'm, during the day, able to start enjoying movies/TV more, which sounds insignificant, but to me, means that I'm becoming in touch with some (key word) emotion. During my shitty period, I barely dreamt at all, and if I did they were nightmares that were fractal by nature. Loose bits of subconscious that barely made an impact.

I'm still going to have plenty of bad days moving forwards, but yeah. Things are moving.

In fact, today kind of sucks, but it's not the kind of suck that leaves me lying on my bed for most of the day, waiting for the pain to be over. It's the kind of suck that annoys me more than anything else. It's one of those instances where I find myself, quite often, saying "I wish I didn't have these symptoms right now as I'm trying to watch this soccer game", as opposed to "I can't fucking do this anymore man, I swear to fucking God. This shit isn't fair. How the fuck is this still happening after 18 months of sobriety? This is some fucking bullshit."

 

Your anguish really comes across and I feel it too to some degree, although I obviously can never know exactly how you're feeling.

I had a 6 month period of hardmode and a few months later a 400 day hardmode "streak" and I really pushed myself to pickup all the 'healthy' habits during that time while getting rid of all my vices. In many ways I changed for the better, but at some point I really hit a plateau and realised something wasn't right in my body. I have currently not O'd for 5 months and have hit a similar plateau (though I have a girlfriend).

Healing is a non-linear process, but week to week and month to month you should be feeling improvements imo. While acknowledging the fact time is a key factor in recovery is important, I think we can also acknowledge that something isn't right when you're stuck in the same place month after month without improvement while just waiting for that magic lightning strike when you'll feel better.

You've reached a position in your mind that tells you something needs to change and that's great - I don't want to mess with your conclusions too much because we are different people so take what I say with a pinch of salt. I'm just going to share my views because your post resonated with me so so much.

My thought process over the last few years has moved towards thinking things like: "at times why did I feel such a powerful need to orgasm often, to the detriment of my wellbeing, yet at other times I didn't need to at all" and "I live a healthier life than the majority of people on the planet - why am I unable to be the happy social creature I know I am deep down?"

Some people fall into a period of depression during celibacy - for some it lifts and for others it lingers. I started to think excessive orgasm might be a secondary detox mechanism for the body when our liver/kidneys etc are overwhelmed or unhappy. Perhaps due to mass inflammation, excess stress, dietary issues or whatever else. That's not to say going back to frequent orgasm is going to make everything great - we all started this journey and had the strength to continue for very real reasons after all.

I had developed a kind of lifestyle that was based around forcing myself to do things I perceived as virtuous regardless of how I felt - I was at a moment in my life where I would rather die than carry on as I had been with video games and excessive orgasm and stuff, and that gave me a powerful fire of inner strength to force myself to. The problem is eventually I got exhaused (although I genuinely saw some life benefit from these behavious at points too like finding joy in reading again and peace in meditation). I started to realise that when I was randomly at my most happy and sociable it wasn't because I had 'forced' anything, but because things were just right in my body at that point. I started to consider the fact there'd be days I really felt like exercising and other days where I simply didn't have the energy, and that forcing myself constantly was just unhealthy.

So that I don't digress too much I'm going to cut to the chase because this could be an absolute tome of an essay about my experiences and I want to stay on topic.

At one point I started experimenting with foods to see if cutting certain things out made a difference. This actually led me to quite a dark place because I became neurotic about it in a very unhealthy way, but I've since arrived at a more healthy position around foods. I was reading all the fads about gluten and dairy being bad so I decided to cut both out, but in hindsight I was struggling to eat enough calories (which is very detrimental to me) because cutting those food groups makes it difficult to eat enough (especially with work and having no time to prepare food).

Anyway, for a period of time I was able to get things together a little bit with my diet and I started to genuinely feel improvements. In concentration span, in inner peace, in energy levels and in enjoyment of the books I was reading. I was able to laugh a little more. There was a moment of revelation where it was like "so this is what it's like to heal!! healing should never have been so hard!" It just started to feel like natural slow improvements that were tangible instead of just waiting and waiting and waiting for that magic freedom from flatline moment that some people speak of. I believe I removed a source of mass inflammation from my body and it was final able to function better.

I sadly wasn't able to continue that momentum due to various life circumstances, but I have recently reconsidered my approach to what might have been that source of inflammation while also being in a position where I can eat enough (whenever I'm hungry).

So, while I still think no PMO is very important for me (because when I orgasm I lose all the self motivation to solve my problems) I'm currently embarking on a journey to cut out dairy again. I have singled out dairy for various reasons and I really want to strongly assert how fucked up the mindspace can become when you start seeing foods as the enemy - there is too much scaremongering online about various phytochemicals and substances in foods and lots of people go down a path thinking they can barely eat any foods, ending up not only starving themselves but also breaking their natural relationship with enjoyable eating in the process.

I'm only a few days in at the moment but will attempt to report back with my results when a little more time has passed; I'm hopeful however because I've already started dreaming a bit more even though my sleep isn't restful yet. I don't want you or anyone else to jump into dietary fads because of this. It's more than I wanted to share the idea of something in the body being incredibly unhappy being the root cause of our anguish instead just saying "PAWS" whenever a very long plateau hits. For another person it might be because they need to eat a little red meat and see if they start to crave it for example.

I'm now eating mostly whole foods and only the foods I crave in a given moment. Sometimes I crave raw veg like onions and celery, other times I prefer them softer and cooked when I mix with rice or bread or meat etc. I think the whole nofap lifestyle can move people too far away from their natural intuition and into what they perceive as virtuous. But often the things we perceive as virtuous are just a perspective and not the truth!

I'm going to report back in a month or so (or when something significant changes) and at that point I'd be more confident in suggesting changes that have helped me, but in the meantime I'm sending you my spare energy and letting you know you're not alone in your struggle.

What I'm certain of is that it's always always possible to heal and find beauty again, and this experience will in the end make you an excellent and truly caring human being with a depth of perspective and appreciation of happiness and hope that many will never get to experience.

 

For the sake of transparency after 4-5months monk mode, after spending a weekend with friends after lockdown, I was triggered and relapsed

Im around 2.5 years since learning about NoFap, and 2.1 years since my first real streak.

I can say by far this past 2.5 years have been the most profound of my entire life, I can't imagine having learnt the things I have without going through such a journey.

These relapses are becoming more psychologically distressing more than anything, there are different elements at play. PAWS is such a broad term, yes there is a physiological and mental aspect, such that you dont sleep as good, more irritable, more anxiety, just a ton of psychosomatic illness. But, there's also a deeper connected meta-physical, psychological journey that is happening in tandem with all of these physical, conscious phenomena. Who am I as a person, my beliefs, my views, my perspectives, my ideologies, behaviors that reflect this meta-physical construct of myself.

It's jarring on that dimension too. To be speaking and behaving in a crude way to other people; even if they themselves enjoy it, you know it's not healthy for either of you. And it creates a splinter or conflict within the pysche, as though there is a deep internal battle, God vs Devil of sorts,

I think this type of journey leads all the way to buddahood if you follow it down the path, it's really hard to see how you can ever integrate sexuality, dopamine and craving in a healthy way, they're almost inherently unhealthy, diametrically oppossed.

I do believe one day Ill be able to write and say Im fully healed, but if I am being honest, this sexuality and dopaminergic activity, with it's associated meta-physical identity constructs, was so deep in my psyche, so embedded to the system, it was crazy to think it was ever going to be 90 days. The person I think I will be on the other side, is someone I didn't even imagine could exist 3 years ago

Really this is a complete metamorphosis of the self , in the most profound, deep way -> to transcend your own sexuality to which we've spent our whole lives enslaved.

For people reading this who are panicking because of my time in PAWS, etc. I am even with relapse recently, still much better physiologically (less anxiety/stress etc) than the first 3-6 months. I still have this wierd brain throbbing with any dopamine activity. I am _profoundly_ more wiser and understanding of this universe and myself. I also want to note I was probably one of the worst cases, I was downloading and selling pornography at school since 12 (33 now), had slept with 4-500 women (100 escorts), and had at least 2-3 years of cocaine abuse and sexual activity: sniffing cocaine and watching porn/sex/sexting/snapchat/escorts , which really threw me to rock bottom.

My last relapse 5 months ago included cocaine, that relapse hit me way harder than this one, it literally threw me into the hardest flatline of my life, I didn't leave my couch for 3 weeks, dopaminergic drugs combined with sex and porn are a fast track to hell for sure.

Godspeed all

 

@humbleone I can not thank you enough for this post, it beautifully encapsulated everything I'm feeling on this journey. The part that stood out to me the most was this:

I think this type of journey leads all the way to buddahood if you follow it down the path, it's really hard to see how you can ever integrate sexuality, dopamine and craving in a healthy way, they're almost inherently unhealthy, diametrically oppossed.

Lately I've been having these periods where I'm flatlining and yet I feel ecstatic on the inside, as if I'm transcending my sexuality. Then I have my bad days where intrusive thoughts creep in and I'm lusting like some perv. The further I go the more it seems that sex can not exist without love. Hell I wonder if sex still even has a place in my life.

My only goal was to cure my addiction and regain sexual function, I never bargained on anything beyond that.

I'm a little excited and nervous at the same time. I have no idea what the future holds for me or even what type of person I'll ultimately emerge as.

 

Exact same for me, 90 days, regain sexual function without the downside and back to normal lol, so much has changed since the, my whole relationship to life itself

 

Not much to do but to go through this, mate. Meditation helps a lot to cope with those symptoms. Otherwise I need to stay sober and retrain my brain somehow. Sex shall be for a loving relationship in the long run and for nothing else. Pretty tough to get rid of an addiction that runs your system for more than twenty years.

 

Weird, I also feel a lot better when I sleep with a lot of dreaming at night. It's a much deeper sleep and I haven't been able to dream for many years. Something seems to be changing due to abstinence in that respect. I wish beain fog and derealization would lift soon. Been in that for many years now and it shits me to tears.

Hang in there, bro. I'm right beside you.