P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I got some porn pics spam in my inbox 3 or 4 weeks ago by a user(forgot the name). I was going to report it but didn't. I think those pics got deleted as I don't see the messages no more.

 

the other orgasm was on December 2nd after playing with the nipples I wanted to see out of curiosity what was happening as circumcision made my penis a little numb to touch and my nipples are the most sensitive area..and baaam orgasm in less than 20 seconds.

 

want to mention that I have no other symptoms except dead libido and a slight anhedonia

 

Yeah so close to 90 days I ended up relapsing again to sex apps, sex and MO. A facebook post triggered me, and then one harmless look at one hot girl led to another, before I know it Im drinking and installing tinder, this was two weeks ago.

It just seems insane that can't get a grip of sexuality, I've done so many 90+ day streaks, so many 30+ day streaks, and its like its had no effect or even a negative effect on me lol

 

For all the guys who have ~2+ years under their belt (of abstinence from porn), do we know how sex (and the mere act of engaging with a woman and being in her presence) affects things? Does anyone believe that it speeds things up, or do we gotta put in the required, personalized amount of time no matter what?

I'm about to hit 31 months pretty soon and would really like to know how much emphasis I should put on dating. A large part of me says that I should heal up through time, start re-engaging with my passions, and go out into the world in order to further pursue said passions. Finding a woman will then occur somewhere in that timeline, and it will be a fairly organic process. This part of me also thinks that forcing something in the name of rewiring is a bad idea because I'm not really whole yet, and I'll be making decisions that aren't based on a healthy Self.

The other part of me thinks that dating will be good in that it'll force me to be in the presence of a woman in that type of environment, and through living in that realm my brain will be kickstarted. Sex, in this frame of mind, will serve as a defibrillator to my libido and to my brain's ability to connect with the world around me (I see PAWs as a disconnection to the world around me). I've seen this theory get mentioned enough that I think it is worth exploring. This is where I'd love for guys with more experience in this category to chime in. And in detail, if possible.

I don't know though, seems that most of the long term recovery guys got to the finish line without a woman in their lives, so who knows. At the end of the day I'm just grasping for straws because the idea that I'm at month 31 and am still suffering as much as I am is pretty fuckin' hard to fathom. This shit has repeatedly lowered the bar to depths I didn't even know existed.

 

I know this is on a much smaller scale compared to what you're dealing with but my libido came back by itself after a two month clean streak, that was after a year or so of trying and failing with smaller streaks in which libido was totally absent. I didn't attempt to "rewire" with women, it just came back one day. I can't say how that would relate to your case but I personally don't believe in the whole jumpstarting thing, it may work as a temporary fix but I think the problem will still remain. Also I don't know if anyone else experiences this but even when I see attractive women in real life, if I focus on them for too long I feel the after-effects(head pressure/spaced out feeling/disturbed sleep/slight depression), I can imagine these effects would be magnified greatly if I were to become intimate with a girl.

Recently I've become kind of interested in the effects of SSRI use and how they compare to the flatline, the similarities are kind of striking to me and just confirms that this is all due to brain chemistry. PSSD(post-SSRI sexual dysfunction) is essentially the same thing as PIED, the cause may be different but the result is still the same and in many cases this can take a while to resolve itself, I don't think forcing it through sex has worked for many people.

These are just my thoughts and personal experiences though so take them how you will. I'm currently coming up to four months now and still flatlined so that just proves that the effects of relapsing are progressive as two years ago I was much further along on a two month streak than where I find myself now.

 

Yeah man ever since I posted that I've been thinking about it. I went on a long walk with it bouncing around my head.

I came to the conclusion that I want to have sex with somebody I care about. I want to have feelings for them, or at least a gut-level attraction. I don't want to just have sex for the sake of having sex. In other words, I think you're exactly right.

I used to think, actually not that long ago, that I wanted to have sex with a bunch of different women. I think that's the porn-ish side of my brain: the poison that still resides within it.

I picture myself having sex with a stranger and I imagine the moments afterwards. What would I even say? Thank you? Sex is too intimate of an experience for somebody like me. I want the attraction to be natural and organic.

I also think that once I'm "cured", in a sense, that an attraction can occur quite quickly. I have felt snippets of that feeling. If that's the case then I'm not going to be some puritan. But it should all feel natural and instinctive. I cannot let my mind make the decisions. "I need to fuck in order to get better, so I'm going to try and fuck her" is not the right way to go about it. If I let time do its thing then I'll just start living my life, come across women within the context of said life, and let things go from there. Right now I'm not there yet. I'm just going to keep enduring the withdrawals knowing that though I'm still in pain, I've seen enough improvement within the last 2 months to trust that it will, ultimately, get better.

Thanks for the insight and the thoughtful reply.

 

This head pressure thing your speaking about/depression/disturbed sleep is exactly why I feel.

I think Im stuck in a rut i cant get out. Ive asked the question before, but does this mean we can never have sex again? Everytime I go anywhere near it, it looks like porn induced sexual fantasies. But I've abstained for such period nows

Maybe it will literally take a 2 year of 0 relapse streak to get anywhere near normal, I just dont even know if I can be bothered at this point, 3.5 years since starting, this is such madness. 90 days barely touches the sides, and then as soon as any improvement, the temptation to date comes so quick

 

Im just over 4 months in. I dont miss this part of recovery. Seems to be an unending flatline now for me instead of being so up and down in initial recovery. I feel completely emotionless all the dang time now. I pretty much wake up lately not wanting to do anything and simultaneously being bored. I dont even want to watch tv or play video games. Exercise does nothing to improve my mood if not make things worse. My impulsiveness is hard to control and my stress levels are through the roof.

I want to say im in hell. Ive been here more or less for about 6 or 7 years. It sucks and we deserve reward for effort but that doesn't change anything nor does it matter. I will continue to find some way through this because i know that eventually it will be worth it.

 

The head pressure is brutal and it usually accompanies a lot of the other symptoms. However i get this all the time.

I spend a lot of time when im outside sexually objectifying women. Im wondering now what sort of impact it is really having on my recovery. I know it clearly cannot be good and i do try to resist but some days is definitely worse than others. I guess the brain is trying to find that dopamine source from wherever it can but it seems so obsessive and controlling all the time. It will always take my attention from what ever i am doing or who ever i am talking to. The gym is a great example of where this objectification is hard to resist. The funny thing is i don't really want to be doing it in the moment.

 

Same here man. I went to the supermarket 9-10 miles away from my house and all my eyes wanted to do staring at every women behind. Sometimes they seem to look big and small other times. I tried to fight it by playing on my phone .

 

I haven't been active lately, got really busy with life. I am hoping at least someone got out of PAWS??

 

I'm still anxious, foggy, depressed and exhausted pretty much all the time. it's really unbelievably long journey!

 

In my opinion rewiring with somebody through intimacy definitely speeds up the reboot. I do believe we all have a number in terms of recovery, but I myself am convinced that by being intimate with another this number can be decreased. The problem is that it can be risky if your partner isn't supportive of the cause.

I came to this crossroad recently (at around the same recovery time as yourself), and decided to take the risky route of attempting to date. At the time I felt confident in my recovery and noticed I was getting a lot of attention from the opposite sex. One day at the gym, a girl I had spoken to previously asked me if I wanted to go for a drink that night. It was early evening, we both lived locally, so we decided to head home, get changed and meet at a local bar. Without going into too much detail, we ended up staying out till 4am, danced, made new friends, and drunk the bar dry. At the end of the night she ended up back at mine. I have no idea whether it was the alcohol, nerves or a flatline that came on, but my erection was pretty weak. In that moment I also realised I was not prepared to tell her about my situation. We spent the night 'fondling' and in the morning I realised that while I had had a great night, that I am not ready to start dating again. The reality is that I wanted (and still want) the real thing. To be able to have sex with a significant other without the worry of the physical, emotional and mental repercussions.

I think that your original thought process is correct. If you can meet a woman, that you genuinely like and want to get to know - go for it. For me, I think recovery is a perfect time to hunker down on what I want out of life, and focus on that. The reality is that women were around before you started recovery, and will be after your recovery. Maybe focus on creating the life and becoming the man you want to be. Then by the time you are done, you can begin enjoying the fruits of your labour with that special person. As I said before, at this point of recovery it becomes about risk and reward.

Risk: telling somebody about your recovery - being rejected - slowing down your reboot by orgasming
Reward: telling somebody about your recovery - finding a great new relationship - being able to speed up your recovery

 

Has anyone ever tried HRT or test therapy?

 

in my opionion it is a reward reward situation. Because if she rejects you can be sure she is not interested in you as a person. She just wants to be fucked by your muscular body. The problem here, if you are insecure about sexuality during reboot you deviate from her further if she does not show some interest in you as a person. Dump her and search for a new girl instead of wasting your time with such a girl.

 

To be clear, just because a woman rejects you it does not mean that she just wanted to 'f**k you'. I don't think that applies to all women. I have been on a date with a woman, been very much into her, and she has just not felt the same. That is fine. There is nothing wrong with that. The point is that rejection can be painful, and for those of us that are recovering it can potentially knock our confidence or even self esteem. That is the risk. The risk is of opening yourself up to somebody and being vulnerable to aid your overall recovery.

Being unsure about your sexuality means to be unsure of how to express yourself sexually. I'm not sure if this what you mean here?

 

If a woman choose to go on a date with you, it's either she wants to use you as a meal ticket or she's already has high interest in you. If you fuck it up by acting needy or low value then it's up to you.

 

Risk: telling somebody about your recovery - being rejected - slowing down your reboot by orgasming
Reward: telling somebody about your recovery - finding a great new relationship - being able to speed up your recovery[/QUOTE]

Hey bro is there any way that you can be up front with these women in the beginning that you aren’t having sex with anyone you don’t truly care about? I think we both can agree that our sexuality is way more powerful than we all originally thought. That level of pressure doesn’t seem incredibly helpful either. It seems like it would set you apart from the herd of guys who are only looking to have sex. Also it would weed out the vast amount of lower quality women that you don’t want to be involved with anyway. This way they would be rejecting the conditions you are putting on the relationship and not you personally. I haven’t had to date anyone since the Bush administration so I may be incredibly naive. It just seems like it would put you in the position of selecting the right girl for you instead of feeling rejected. You successfully beat porn addiction. You may still be feeling effects, but you were able to accomplish what very few men can accomplish. We all have, even those of us who have t been able to completely kick the addiction. It may just be my opinion but that puts your value way higher than any normal porn zombie dude. You should be the one choosing not the one chosen. Sorry for giving un-asked for advice. I’m just curious what you think.

 

Hello Everyone, So I am back here writing which I never thought I would be if anyone asked me a few days back. So, just a reminder for everyone, I wrote about 4 months ago that I am PAWS free after a brutal 31 months battle. I have to take that back with a pinch of salt (more than a pinch actually) because I am experiencing some of the symptoms haunting me again for last 10-12 days. I am experiencing shallow breathing, throat tightness (sort of globus sensation), heart palpitations, light headedness and fatigue. No, I didn't have any relapse or anything close to it. I am continuing my hardmode as usual. So basically, I am concluding here that I just had a good 2-3 months window of no symptoms/very few symptoms where I actually thought that I am out of PAWS. And now I am back in PAWS cycle.....and surprisingly with different symptoms esp. the breathing one. Not sure how long this PAWS window last or whether it would be the last one or not.

I would love to hear thoughts of long termers here. My case also debunks the theory completely that coming to these forums keeps you broken because I left the forum completely and thought myself healed. I only came here after hitting PAWS again and I know that its PAWS because I feel sth going on in my head as well side by side. Don't know how to describe it but PAWS can so easily be differentiated now because you literally feel the brain going through sth and I hope these are positive changes. Its been more than 3 years now and I feel so exhausted & burnt out. I was reading about the withdrawals regarding breathing and they are caused by irregular functioning of your CNS system in brain.

Just last month, I was thinking seriously of started dating etc. because my libido is totally back for more than a year and I have been waiting to completely recover from PAWS. But I guess I would have to put that on hold because I am definitely not going to open that pandora box until I am dead sure about my PAWS recovery.