P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

I think many of us are realizing just how much time it takes and that we must stop expecting "miracles" from 90 day reboots...they are a drop in the bucket. For me this will be a lifelong process...

 

Yes, you are absolutely right. The problem is deep. It does help to have someone to talk to, in my case I can now openly talk to my sister, with whom I share the childhood trauma.
And energy flow is a big one I think. Certain movement routines like Qui Gong can enhance energy flow and generally good posture as well.
But most of all, for me, releasing stubborn emotions that have been repressed for so many years....

 

But what are your ailments now? Before your recent return to sexuality it seemed youd fully healed?

Are you on hardmode again or still sleeping with people?

 

Right now the following symptoms keep fluctuating: low libido, fatigue, brain fog, back acne. Some days I'm living in a 4K world, some days it's 720p. The seesawing nature of the symptoms is actually irritating me more than the symptoms themselves. I thought I had been cured but it was one of several false starts.

I've been back on hardmode for awhile now.

 

Gotcha, and how easy is it for you to move away from PMO and sexuality now? Like I remember your posts after youd met a young girl, is it easy to put that part away?

Guess Im asking as I have similiar symtpoms to you, but struggling to push the sexuality aisde fully, 90/180 days hardmode I get itchy feet now

 

The girl you're mentioning moved away to escape the high COL around here, which is probably for the best right now

The reason I've been able to push my sexuality aside is because I'm too preoccupied with getting across the finish line, perhaps unhealthily so. I'd estimate I'm 90% to 95% removed or "cured" from my past life, this is the main stumbling block that just stubbornly won't budge. So I've been spending a lot of time on the internet studying various alternative treatments to see if I can find any answers.

I actually had a free consultation with a psychedelic therapist to get her opinion. With my history of addiction this was something I grappled with but decided it couldn't hurt to at least be open minded to the possibility. She actually referred me to this holistic health practitioner that I've made an appointment with. I had never considered acupuncture in the past but I did a lot of reading on it and I certainly don't think it will hurt.

Sexuality is not on my mind, I'm just tired of this shit and want to be fully healed which is what I ruminate on too much. My childhood and young adulthood were marked by lots of trauma and abuse and I'll be turning 45 years old in a little more than one year from now. I really don't want to approach old age without having completely resolved my past bullshit. If this reads like I'm frustrated it's because I am. Exercise, meditation, intermittent fasting, sleep routine, hygiene routine, drinking a liter of water daily, contemplation, daily walks in the sun, semen retention, whatever else I'm forgetting and I'M STILL NOT FUCKING FIXED.

I'm throwing this out there to The Creator right now: I just want to be healthy before my 45th birthday and spend the rest of however many years I have after that in peace and serenity.

This practitioner did not have room in his schedule until next week so I'll just have to wait patiently until then. I hope to be able to share promising results.

 

Thanks for sharing this. You've actually been an inspiration to me getting down the longer stretches, and as many dont post or speak about it, you still come back and share.

I am absolutely convinced you will heal with your resolve and mindset that you have, I am friends with heroin addicts who have died from OD's and it took them 5 years of living at home in the outback in Canada with their parents at age 35-40, to fully feel healed.

Godspeed

 

I took about 5 grams of high powered psilocybin mushrooms this weekend, and I had one of the wildest experiences of my entire life. The trip itself was way too complicated to put into words here. But the main take away is that it helped a lot - just like the last time. My brain feels reset, fresh, healthier, and sharper. The mushrooms turned on and accessed parts of my brain that I thought were dead, but are clearly still alive. For the first time in my life, I was actually able to escape my mind, to break free. And that was tremendously encouraging.

Since then I've felt a lot better, although I've had a lot of stress at work, and with starting school, it's been an absorbing situation. I definitely have some natural anxiety about it. The other day at work, I was on a 15 minute break going for a walk, and a flood of emotions that have been lost to me for years came up out of the blue. I don't understand this process better than anyone, but I'm still noticing benefits, and ever so slightly, my brain is turning back on.

This last week has been just great in terms of how I feel. Just lots of improvement, so to try to be encouraging, there you have it.

 

I have to admit that part of me wants to try psychedelics. On the one hand their therapeutic and spiritual benefits are well documented but I'm also conflicted because of my history of substance abuse. I'm too terrified to try any mind altering substance.

The only time I've experienced hallucinations is when I was going through withdrawal and DTs. I was TRIPPING BALLS. During the peak I experienced being an organism made of pure light and interacting with others, some benevolent and some malevolent. Perhaps I was in the astral plane. On the comedown I was back on earth but my cellphone kept talking to me via SMS/MMS.

For now it's something I'm keeping in mind but I'd like to explore alternative healing methods first.

 

Do you goto 12 steps @grateful

Did you ever goto 12 steps? I know alot of famous people including mike tyson, eminem, russel brand etc swear by it

 

I would do research into psychedelics. Far from being addictive or neurotoxic, there is mounting evidence that these substances (when used in a safe and clinical setting) can cure depression, anxiety, PTSD, as well as substance abuse addictions. There's solid research on psilocybin mushrooms curing nicotine addiction and some evidence it can cure alcohol addiction as well as other heavier substance based addictions. The caveat is that the drug trip has to coincide with a "mystical" experience for it to be curative, according to the research literature. Not enough is known to decisively state the full range and efficacy of these medicinal plants, but they show promising results. Psilocybin mushrooms are so safe to use that I don't think Doctors have even reached a defined consensus on what constitutes an 'overdose.'

One mycologist I follow, Paul Stamets, claims when he was a teenager, he was given a bag full of psilocybin mushrooms, and, not knowing they were psychedelic, munched on them while he explored through a forrest. Turns out he had consumed about roughly 20-25 grams of magic mushrooms (keep in mind I did 5 grams, which is considered the 'heroic dose'). The trip he had was so intense that he merged into complete connectivity with nature and his environment while being bathed in cosmic love and euphoric bewilderment. And, in the midst of the trip, he claims to have commanded his mind to overcome his lifelong debilitating speech stuttering impairment, to which the mushrooms responded in kind, curing him completely of all of his stuttering. There's so much evidence supporting the neuro-generative qualities of psilocybin mushrooms it's honestly criminal to me that they are still criminalized as section 1 substances.

Given my brief experience with them, I am 100% confident that these plants could save my life if I had full medical access to them as antidepressants and psychotherapeutics. The two times I've done them, they've cleared my brain fog and refreshed my brain, like a software reboot - with zero side effects. Plus, the benefits lasting weeks and months extended out from the trips. It requires so little to get so much out of them.

Anyway, not an MD (blah, blah, blah) make sure to do your research and be safe. There are clinical trials going up all over the US now (and other countries depending on where you're from). Safe, medically administered, and so on. Psilocybin is completely decriminalized in Oregon and in Denver Colorado, and it's on its way in other states. We are a few years out from having legal access to these substances on the market. The data is so incredible that it's inevitable. Just have to jump through the red tape to get there. And, yeah, I can't wait, because I've never felt safer ingesting something in my life - I've gone the big pharma route with SSRIs and other antidepressants (not for me). Magic Mushrooms strike me as safer in every metric, and they don't just make me feel slightly less shitty; they make me feel like a proper human.

Godspeed.

 

Man, I had a mini success blurb all written out but decided to hold back just in case the PAWs returned. I was really starting to think that I was out of it.

Well, they did come back.

Pretty damn shocked by how far I've dropped in the past ~2 days. Like I did a bugs bunny and stepped off a cliff.

If I have to endure another 30 day stint of hell then that would really be a travesty. Starting to think that that's where I'm headed.

I'm not in an uplifting state of mind atm. Of course I've endured many positives lately, but the depression really makes things feel not okay. I thought the cycle was broken, but it seems that it's still repeating itself. All of the same culprits. It's so fuckin' boring at this point. This shit is fuckin' madness man. How does one even begin to describe the length and depth of pain. I am at a loss for words.

I'll recover from this emotional sucker punch, but to say that I'm not pissed off about this would be a lie.

Maybe things will turn back around. I'll add an update when I have enough data.

Need to reiterate to myself that I'm still progressing and that things will eventually end. I'll use the newfound successes as fuel to get through the oncoming onslaught.

 

(trigger warning for anyone sensitive! I go into a little bit of detail!)

Holy shit, my brothers! I have some of the best news I've ever shared on this thread. I just got home. And I had sex again. That girl that I've been meeting with has been helping me "rewire" over the summer. Most of it has been cuddling, snuggling, kissing, touching, very simple stuff like that. However, every once in a while I'll have her give me a BJ and occasionally I'll have sex, with longer breaks in between that. Now, at first, I thought that I would get progressively worse over time, and there certainly is a noticeable dip, and it takes me a couple days to get my balance back (though nothing terribly bad). But I'm here to report very noticeable improvements that have lasted and enhanced my recovery having sex.

Much like those who've gone before me, I'm starting to really appreciate and understand the unquestionable value of "rewiring." It's definitely getting me unstuck and resolving a ton of pent up psychological shit and cluster thoughts about my predicament in life, feeling broken, like I wasted my life, my potential, that I'll never really get better, that I'm sexually dysfunctional.

Aside from an orgasm causing negative symptoms from POIS, my next biggest concern was my PE. Ever since I was 12 years old, every single time I masturbated, I would cum in less than a minute. I believed 100% that I had permanent PE (due to early childhood trauma, depression, and anxiety not to mention PMO addiction), and aside from orgasms crippling me mentally, I'd also never be able to satisfy a woman in bed because I had zero stamina. Hence, for years and years and years, I've wholeheartedly believed I could never qualify for a long term relationship because I couldn't face down the sexual problems I had. They were insurmountable. Dating? Being a couple? Marriage? Children? Can't do it. Sex cripples me, and I'm broken!

Well, like I said at the beginning of this digression, I had sex tonight. Wasn't initially planning on it. However, the stars aligned, and I told the girl I wanted to deliberately try and see how long I'd last. I used a condom, and we went slow. She was incredibly patient and supportive (which was EVERYTHING to me). While we were doing it, I talked about random nonsense, acted all goofy and just went with it, pacing myself, breathing, and then when I didn't immediately finish, I kept going; I grabbed my phone and set up a timer. We got bored where we were and shifted things around throughout. But it was crazy! I was lasting. Granted, I had a condom on, and that reduced the sensitivity, but this was incredible. I could have gone much much longer, but it was starting to hurt for her. So, on command, I completed.

I ended up lasting almost 30 minutes with her! Which is way above the general average of 5-10 mins. Now keep in mind, This is coming from a guy who, all his known life has jerked off to 30 seconds to a minute long sessions. My entire life.

Also, to add on top of the cake some icing! I feel quite amazing. I feel a little bit mentally blemished, but it's minimal, and I think I know why. I think it's because I took 1,000mg of a garlic tablet with 1200mg of fenugreek an hour before I had sex, which I also was doing for when I got BJs, and it significantly reduced my symptoms down to minor nuisances around the periphery of my consciousness - little baby stress flare ups and minor moodiness, with slight moments of cognitive stickiness. But otherwise feeling normal, and swinging back to baseline in a couple days!

But yes, I'm on cloud 9! It's such a revelation. To know that I can physically last for that long fundamentally alters my core perception of myself. Not to mention feel so decent after having sex. It obviously just happened, so I need time to process, but I'm not gonna let this be negative, or given a shitty interpretation. I DID IT! After so many years of hell and paws and uncertainty - virtually everything that I thought I'd lost in life is still in me, and it's still possible. LOVE. Relationships. Marriage? Who knows!

I definitely think the psilocybin mushrooms I took had an enormous impact on shifting things for me, but also it can't be said enough that the girl I'm with is the most patient, sweet and lovely girl to help me. She brings zero stress, pressure, or shame to the table. It's nothing but kindness and support. Which is so healing. I've got a ways to go, and now that I know that sex and a sex life is actually incredibly realistic for me now, I almost want to go back into nofap and go deeper, keep healing and getting better, sorting out my traumas and getting even healthier. Because holy shit! It's actually possible. You can actually get to this stage! I'm not completely 100% in every category (I still have stuff to work through and heal), but I feel better than I've felt in so much of my life. And I have hope! I never had hope before!

You guys it can and will be done!

NoFap is the way!

 

Great news and very happy for you Don. I also notice compared to some friends I always cum super quick during sex, and this got way worse during PAWS.

At this point now can you delinate from your last main streak to now including your sexual acitivity so we can see your journey. Also what is sexual activity like in terms of chaser effect etc etc? What is your pyschological relationship to sexual activity now for instance, could you have sex once like with this girl, and then easily let go of it and go 90 days effortlessly without any sexual activity? Or does it still require effort etc

 

Hey, great questions. I'm not sure what you're asking in your first question. But Back in the summer of 2017, I started developing PAWS symptoms before Id even started nofap. I joined nofap. Did 4 months clean, and then spent the next 2 years relapsing on pmo and getting unimaginably worse symptom-wise (like Alzhiemers patient bad). Then I got 2 years under my belt of completely zero pmo. Then, in the last 2 years, I've had streaks of several months with intermitten masturbation (and a few times watching porn). More recently I've been having sex, so my streaks aren't super long. Maybe a week, week and a half.

I've not experienced a chaser effect like I do with porn or masturbation. The sex I'm having is satisfying. Granted it's taking it out of me. I do feel an imperative need to recharge, which is why I go back on nofap after any release. But like I said, I'm usually back to normal in a couple days (although I've noticed that how healthy I feel after sex is getting better not worse with time). I know people say supplements don't do shit, but I've been taking a ton of vitamins, eating healthier, and I truly swear by the garlic and fenugreek as far as neutralizing the POIS symptoms after sex.

My relationship with sex is finally turning a corner and becoming healthy. I do not feel like a slave fixated on my drug of choice - sex. I feel human. Normal. I desire sex but never need it. I can say now, and I have. There have been many times where we've met up to work on my rewiring, and she has wanted to take things further, and I say no because I'm genuinely not feeling it and need more time, which she's 100% good for. I feel 100% like I could turn around and go 90+ days without sex, porn, or masturbation. Sex is so ridiculously different from pmo that it doesn't even really make sense to put them in the same category for me. But that's my relationship to it.

I don't at all wanna be dishonest. It's easy to overstate the value of things in the moment, but I do feel like this was a huge pivot in my recovery. And who knows? Maybe symptoms will be negative this time? Again, we were going at it for like almost 30 minutes (which I still can't believe). Oh, and by the way, the last time I'd released was about 2 weeks ago, so I was having sex while being extremely full (a ton came out). So, I know for a fact that it was an instance of overcoming PE because to last that long but also be that full from nofap is something miraculous.

But yes, I'm not doing this to knock boots. I want to heal and be healthy. I'm trying to treat some of my sexual trauma through my sexuality, which I think is really, really, really indispensable, and that's why there's all this positivity behind the experiences, which I think is so crucial. We develop a ton of sexual pathology from pmo and our past history. And until you physically, emotionally, and cognitively experience the truth of things being capable of being other than you've believed, you just go on stuck in these fucking mind numbing automated negative thinking clusters where it's just the same thing over and over and over, chipping away at any will or power to believe or think anything different about your situation. Nothing but doom and gloom. But now that I'm actually experiencing the change, I feel like I'm breaking through some irreversible thresholds in my healing. I literally can no longer run around and mope about PE or sexual dysfunction because I lasted 25 minutes, satisfied my girl, and feel pretty damn good the following morning.

It's so key to have these core paradigm shifts of your rooted thinking patterns. I mean you can try to challenge them with willpower and effort, but experience is king.

I don't know. There's not a ton of positive stuff on here. I just wanted to share. Because I think a lot of the long term guys on here are at a point where they're relatively convinced that they will continue to improve and get better, but there hasn't been much on sexuality and having a sex life. The evidence so far is pretty stellar for me, so I just wanted to share it with you for encouragement.

 

Got it thanks.

For me I never reached the streaks long enough (2 years hard mode) to fully reboot. I always got close, and then relapsed. With every relapse my symptoms change slightly and severity. Right now any and all sexual activity leaves me in indescribable amounts of physical pain. I have a sinus pressure so bad (front of forehead) after sexual activity that I can pass out. All of my sexual activity leads pretty quickly to pure hedonistic style pleasure pursuit.

I think at this point it's super clear the negative phyisological pain and stress my body is going through , and I just need to let it heal, like a broken leg or torn knee ligament

 

Computer screens now cause brain fog on the regular. Video games completely thrash my wiring. Trying my best to avoid both.

I'm starting to very much agree with Don about the rewiring stuff. I think it'll be the thing that'll break me free from these cycles that I find myself in. I need to add that extra variable. Think my brain is in a spot where it is now susceptible to outside forces, given that computer screens cause issues and being around people seems to help with mood. Choices now matter, whereas most of the 2.8 years I've been rebooting my actions didn't budge things either way. Going to start meditating again.

Symptoms are bipolar as fuck. Bounces around often. Energy levels constantly fluctuate, as does mood, sleep, appetite, sociability, and anxiety.

Couple days short of 34 months no PMO.

 

Its really hard to relate to this concept of 'rewiring' bringing any sort of positiveness to your life. Pyschedelics etc for neurogenesis and actual rewiring sounds way more realistic to me

You shouldn't need to have sex and orgasm to feel normal, and not having it shouldnt cause any downsides or distress. I would say at least 50% of my male friends that when not in a relationship or dating, naturally will masturbate 1-4x per month, just out of boredom. Some of my friends when I told them about nofap just did it for fun 90 days no problem at all, but they were never addicted to porn or sex, they don't have wierd fetishes or kinks etc

But equally each journey is different, I couldnt imagine 34 months hardmore/monkmode and not be completely healed, maybe theres other things to be addressed at this point. I think out of the last 3.5 years Ive been no PMO for 2.5, but its super causal for me, when I have sex or orgasm all my symptoms get immedietaly worse, and when I don't they slowly continously improve

 

Did anyone else ever have intense pressure in there sinusus/above theire nose inbetween there eyebrows/forehead, Ive had this phenomenon since I started