P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

That makes complete sense to me at least on a personal level, I don't think anyone starts from zero. It depends on how exhausted, over stimulated you are at the start. However I dont think we are all alike at all, I know guys who have sex with their wives, cheat on their wives, masturbate and consume large amounts of porn and are my age 40+ and they have none of the issues that I have. We are all built differently and have different limits surely. My close mate of 38 tells me he whacks off to porn up to 5 times a day still. But I dont think just because they are able to have sex lots doesnt mean they are better than us, I have lots of qualities far better than they do.

Yes, this interests me. Porn is like the gateway to orgasm for pmo guys, porn = reproduction in your brains. I have only ever orgasmed with a loved one, and the times I do masturbate I think of my having sex with my partner. However I have alot of problems with dependency in relationships, I cannot let go of them easily. Even when the relationship s really bad I feel like I must have them still. it takes me 6-12 months before I let go of any sexual partner, I never have had one night stands. Ive never cheated either. My brain chemisitry for reproduction is to my partner which I guess is healthy and natural. but in these modern times relationships dont last and I am seen as abnormal for trying to hang on to any relationship no matter how compatible or not we are. Makes sense in nature as if you have sex with a mate you are expected to get them pregnant and you are meant to hang around and look after them. I feel porn and the idea of multiple partners which is quite easy to acheive these days ruins our natural drive to be monogamus and look after our sexual partner.

But regardless I am a loyal, non porn watching, no one night stands sort of guy but I still suffer from sexual exhaustion maybe.

Most animals in their natural habitats only have sex in season, why should we be any different? It takes 9 months for a woman to carry and give birth. Animals in captivity masturbate and have sex more. Are human beings with all our "Great" inventions and modern life actually just living a unnatural life in captivity bored and un stimulated. Seems clear to me we are meant to be outside hunting gathering protecting and not stuck inside a nnice warm home with food in the fridge. Modern man is bored and in affect in a self induced captivity.

 

We are put on this planet to reproduce and survive.

Surviving is providing food and water and protection. It would be a 24/7 job providing food for our ancestors without farming and inventions. The easier our lives have become the more we have focused on reproduction. Surviving takes 0 effort so we focus on our only other reason to be on the planet which is sex. The more evolved the planet has become the more sick and depressed it has become. Is that all down to sexual exhaustion?

The "benefits" of nofap.... attraction, confidence, the glow, intelligence, strength, happiness, strength, wisdom, libido... These to me are all the qualities you need to attract a good mate. It is nature making sure you spread your seed.

I seem to be stuck in a cycle where I amsingle for a while, I feel really good, naturally want to meet someone, have sex with them regulary, feel good for the first few weeks then it all turns to misery and the relationship fails and it takes me up to 6 months of being single and no sex to get that glow and drive again.

 

I was referring to those on nofap rather than guys in general. I agree that for some reason many men can watch a ton of porn and whack off or have as much sex as they want without suffering the negative effects but then that's true of a lot of "vices". I gambled a lot in the past for example but never became addicted to it and yet there are people out there who can watch all the porn in the world but God forbid they walk past a slot machine.

Also when I said zero, I didn't intend that to mean "rock bottom" so to speak but more just the starting line in recovery. 80% of nofappers probably start there whereas we haven't even made our way onto the track yet, that's what I meant. Once we get to the starting line though I don't think the timeline is exceedingly different, even for the severest of cases.

Touching on the first point again, one thing I will say is that those who so far haven't had a problem with it have probably never attempted to actually stop at any point. I know for myself that whilst I believe PMO was creating a lot of problems for me already, they were exacerbated when trying to stop and the whole streak -> relapse -> streak -> relapse cycle has really done a number on my health. I felt way better(still not great though) when I was blissfully PMO'ing every day in complete ignorance.

Something you said that I found interesting though is that even in your late teens and 20s you were masturbating with a limp dick, I never once had that and could get an instant rock hard erection on command even after jerking it multiple times, with or without porn. That all came crashing down one day at the age of 28 once I started to dabble in nofap, even now I'm still not sure whether I just hit some kind of limit and my brain gave up or I flatlined from one of the short streaks I managed to reach at the time. I basically went from 100 to 0 overnight, sexually at least.

 

This cycle sounds a lot like what Marnia Robinson describes in Cupid's Poison Arrow.

 

Most of it I agree except the monogamy and technically we are animals. Some people are born to be polygamous and some are not. The monogamy idea in fact is new concept to human kind. I've read that back in time most men didn't care being single at all while the top had all the women.Till this day majority of women are selective to whom they're sleeping with especially in this generation.

Brief, I do think if you were to be mono or poly you would know. Some men are wanna be as well like they trying to be polygamous but soon or later it'll backfire. Also women know what you're capable of or at least assume which sides are you and they'll have no problem to get on board (poly).

 

Yeah genetics could play a big role just like some people could be smoking almost every day and still die in late age while others can't.

The other point is, I didn't really have big issues with pmo the first 3 years. However I was becoming antisocial day by day and have to force myself to go to work or exercise. By the third year I could sense something is wrong after each session. That's when I googled and discovered pmo is the cause through nofap videos and articles back 2013. I didn't even think I had an addiction till someone on YouTube said if you couldn't pass 1 to 3 day without masturbating therefore you are an addict. So I decided to test myself and he/she was right. And it took me a lot of trials to get 5 days under belt with a lot withdrawals. Once I finally reached 3 weeks I felt a difference in my mood. That's when I knew NOFAP was legit.

What I really wanted to say, I've read on this Forum and on Google multiple times that our brain baseline dropped the lowest at a certain period in abstinence before returning to homeostasis. And it shocked me that I was doing better under heavy fapping before everything crashed under abstention. I kinda missed those blissful days but I have to move on from pmo.
Our brain were so used to stimulation all the time so we felt good while ignoring negative emotions, upsets, failures.... Now nofap made us realized all of these and what waiting for us on the other side.

 

So does this mean even after passing PAWS symptoms and becoming healthy again (feeling good.. no fatigue and no pain) it will still comeback if one indulges with natural sex with his partner?

 

I think it depends on a few things.

If you start trying to have sex as soon as you feel recovered then yes, I would very much expect it to throw you straight back into flatline and symptoms returning. The moment you feel recovered is actually what I'd consider the starting line as I referred to above. I would give it a good while from this point until gradually and slowly introducing sex into the mix, you can't go "all in" and act as though nothing has happened.

I liken this whole process to being in debt. You cannot afford to spend while you're in debt, otherwise it's going to take forever just to get to zero. Being debt free isn't the aim though, you actually want some money in the bank that you can spend without going back into the red again. This is where I think most guys fail, they think just because they're past the debt phase that they can spend as much as they like. You see so many threads on here from guys saying "yo, wtf, I recovered, had sex and now I'm back in the flatline, sex is healthy and what we're meant to be doing, right?". The issue is that they jumped straight back in and overdid it when what they needed was to really ease themselves back in. Even then though you may still dip in and out of the flatline but hopefully if you take things slowly then your brain will level out and you'll be able to enjoy a normal and healthy sex life.

I also think things like dating apps are an issue, possibly a forever one. Scrolling through pics of women is not a good idea even if it doesn't lead to anything worse, you're still stimulating your brain with endless novelty and that's something you should really avoid.

 

This could be possible, I just reasearched this issue and it seems some people were successfully able to treat it with Nofap. Yet some people found that taking anti-depressants and SSRIs were helpful to cope with it.

I have never had sex and that's the thing I'm hopping for when I am done with this journey as everyone else.

You reminded me with some points I think they worth mentioning here:

When PAWS or the severe symptoms I got from a binge of PMO I have gone through many unexplainable and sudden symptoms as some of what's decribed here and I mentioned this in previous comment. This phase was full of doubts as like "is this a part of pmo? Is this symptom related to it? It looks like nobody has mentioned it online!" But I was sure that all was PAWS.. it took me about 7 months of hardmode until I felt better. Then I really felt FREE due to external factors I considered as avoiding whatever stimulating and any bad habit (stressors). But one great trick with all this I really appreciate is Exposure therapy, it helps a lot to overcome anxiety disorders.

-Back to the point, I felt the golden time of FREE symptoms for about four months. After that I slipped to Porn videos but only edging. and then panic attacks started and even searching for health or general articles related to porn that mention some triggering words was making me feel as if I was edging. (Not always but at some point it did).

-Another phase of time is when I returned back to Instagram - I have left all social media during first recovery and I still pursuing the same thing now - I found that simple scrolling through random picsof girls (even non erotic but could be in some way or another attractive) at night before sleeping used to cause me panic attacks the moment I close my eyes.

At some point during this same phase I used to sometimes get panic attacks when sleeping when I am stressed (sleeping late after watching TV or using the phone or computer). But they passed later.

- Another phase was when I started getting temporary high Blood pressure and panic attacks when I try to use online chatting app that included girls (whom I used to contact with friendly non-arousing clean conversations) though I would like to mention that this was also when I had high stress from work as well.

-Also sometimes when I scroll between Youtube shorts and facebook reels I would feel a sort of exhausted/lack of energy (once or twice I had panic attacks after that session) and I think all these scenarios were related to the brain being turned on for some footage which was not meant to be arousing.

Then I stayed clean and rebooting hardmode with some fantasizing slips .. little edging.

But when edging increased. Even using the same chatting app for friendly contacts only used to cause me fatigue. While I also noticed that I would feel fresher when avoiding that app plus other social media apps.

What I want to say that yes our brain could be in stimulation when we are doing an activity even if we didn't mean to stimulate it. I also think this is related to sensitisation in which the PMO pathways in the brain start firing and become sensitive again to the other triggers. And so this becomes like edging. And what strengthens this starts from intended edging to erotic content or fantasizing repeatedly. And all this slows the process of recovery.

 

I can relate, when I first tried nofap after having sex with ed meds and masturbating regular, first few weeks id say I felt the "super powers" then I went to a lower point, then I get the odd flicks of greatness for a short window an then a longer period of flatline.

Yes IVe never had a sustained period of libido, only a hand ful of times my whole life have I experience libido or a raging erection, and only for minutes/hours at a time. Most of the time masturbating im only half erect and often completely flaccid. When I first started masturbating I remember getting full on erections but later ive only experienced that with ED meds which are getting less and less effective as I get older.

As soon as I discovered masturbating, it was all about the sensation of orgasm, I never really lusted over women, I just wanted to experience that feeling of Orgasm. It was a routine habit of doing it as many times as I could in a day (usually three) and the third one woudl be completely flaccid, it would take a long time to acheive but it would give me the best orgasm.

 

We're basically the total opposite ends of the spectrum haha.

For me I've always TOTALLY lusted over women, completely and utterly infatuated by them. Finding porn was like hitting the jackpot for my brain. All I wanted to do was edge for hours and bathe in their sexiness, the orgasm was more just a consequence and sometimes an unwanted one because it put an end to the euphoria I was feeling - well, until I repeated the same process all over again with barely any break. I don't know how I got away without erection issues for so long. Even after multiple hours of edging and orgasms I was still rock hard and wanted more, it was like I was on a permanent V pill(never actually taken any kind of ED meds). Despite all of that though there's always been something stopping me from getting close to women, I think I've elevated them into some Goddess like status and that makes me fear them equally as much as I desire them.

I think for me it's quite clear why I've ended up here and why I'm a severe case, yourself on the other hand is a bit more perplexing. Maybe you just naturally have a lower libido, or maybe mine was just abnormally high, perhaps a bit of both.

 

From my own experience, I think edging is the worst thing, period. Worse than PMO, or MO.

 

Yes we are very different. I think I discoverd MO at aroun 12, an I had not even thoughtof sex. I guess my first and early experiences of MO was just to sensation before my interest in women started. Perhaps I wired my MO badly this way, I dont know.

I love women and need them in my life, as soon as I feel good and sometimes when I am not I find myself on dating sites. But I dont look at girls and think I want to have sex with them, I find them attractive and want to be with them. I love female attention, affection etc but sex almost scares me, perhaps because of the regular ED and use of Medication I dont know.

Im reasonably attractive and successful, and often had attractive woman throwing themselves at me, but it doesnt register at all. My friends laugh at me as I just blank womans obvious advances. Im definately not gay. Never had a one night stand, just doesnt interest me. Having loving intimate sex appeals to me.

Despite not having a sex drive I am driven in other ways, I am extremely successful and had multiple businesses, I have run marathons, triathalons, been a amateur body builder etc. I look very masculine, very lean and muscular even at almost 41. Not like im a obvious beta male or anything.

Funny how we are all made different

 

Have any of you inability to handle stress during PAWS? Whenever i get stressed or get really anxious it takes DAYS to recover. I cant even fast anymore because it stresses my body and it can take 4-5 days to feel normal again.

 

Yes I have and still do unfortunately. I had a wet dream a few days ago and even today I struggled with managing stress. By struggle I mean, something small or minuscule could occur and my reaction will be exaggerated. I think it helps to realise that your reaction to stress is down to the chemical imbalance and that it is not the ‘real you’ per se.

For me the effects are much much less than earlier on, but unfortunately they do last a few days. Previously it would take 4-5 days after a wet dream/orgasm to kick in, whereas now it kicks in the next day so there’s definitely been an improvement for me.

Hopefully it doesn’t last for too long.

 

Interesting. Ive been in paws for like 5 years and it doesnt go away with relapse, even then i cant handle stress like my body gets ill after a very stressfull situation and takes almost a week to recover, its horrible. Yeah it is the chemical imbalance, wonder if this hell will ever stop, hope 1-2 more years and i will notice a difference.
I dont get affected by wet dreams at all, in fact i feel better after them, its weird. In my earlier streaks i would feel bad after a wet dream. Sex/relapsing just makes me stay in paws, doesnt make it worse or better. Only if its porn, that makes me feel better because it takes such a huge tool on my brain

 

Yep, my ability to handle stress is terrible most of the time. Yesterday i had an extremely stressful day at work in the morning and i felt like i was going to have a panic attack almost, even though i never do. I also have the same situation with wet dreams, most of the time they make me feel better for a few days but occasionally they make me feel worse. Ive just got to 3 months so hopefully things should improve a little

 

Same thing here.

 

I struggle with this a lot, I can't handle stressful situations anymore, just like a sick 93-year-old.

My blood pressure goes through the roof and I seriously get ill from stressful situations and it takes me days to recover. Exactly like your situation.

 

Do you get anxiety shivers too? Like you are so stressed you start shivering like you are very cold?