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Partner Still Responds With Anger Everytime We Discuss His Addiction

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by GG2002, Jul 31, 2017.

  1. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    He's acting like a child
     
  2. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

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    @GG2002 I can't believe that counselors said that to you. That is absolutely absurd. Were they all men? I had a name therapist tell me I don't have a problem.

    Just so you know, they are wrong. Those suggestions did not work because they did not know what they were talking about. You are absolutely not the problem. Again, I've been through this exact stage myself and I was saying very similar things. I was the one blocking everything out that was uncomfortable. She just wanted answers to understand what happened and what went on in my mind.

    I am very sorry to hear that you had that experience. He need a counselor that understands addiction and trauma. Preferably an woman. I'm on my third therapist and she is the first women I've had and that only one who understands.
     
    GG2002 and Queen_Of_Hearts_13 like this.
  3. JakeWoods

    JakeWoods Fapstronaut

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    In response to this. Yes I understand that because he gets defensive that it comes across as he's hiding something. But what you gotta realise is. It's not nice for you that he can't orgasm during intercourse, buts just remember it's a lot worse for him. Maybe it makes him feel like less of a man that he can't completely satisfy you? Not to mention that the whole point of sex is to reach orgasm, and when you can't it is frustrating. So everytime you bring it up, it may just be aggravating him even more, he's given up the porn but yet he still can't orgasm. Then everytime you bring it up doubting him, it probably makes him feel worse to the point where he thinks he might aswell use the Porn because it clearly isn't helping anyway if you keep bringing it up.

    Rather than making him feel uncomfortable, I know you're not doing it on purpose, you have the right to ask those questions. You just gotta remember that it's him who can't orgasm, it's alot more frustrating for him than it is you. So I think maybe you should just encourage him to keep going and tone down the questions or just completely avoid questions altogether at least for now, seeing as it clearly bothers him. If he really hasn't been using porn and these questions make it seem like you're doubting him, it's only reasonable that he gets a little annoyed. My best bit of advice I can give is to stop with the questions, focus on him getting better.

    Let's just assume he's telling the truth and he hasn't been using Porn. It's only a matter of time before he gets better and can orgasm during sex.

    Let's just assume he's lying and has been using Porn this entire time. He will likely stay at this point where he can't orgasm at all. It's probably pretty safe to say that if this time next year he still can't orgasm, he's probably still using the porn.

    Or a completely different angle would be that actually Porn isn't the problem at all. Delayed ejaculation can be caused by numerous different things, not just porn, the porn might not be the reason at all.

    You know him better than anyone, you can listen to all the advice in the world, it's your relationship and only you know how you should go about it. :)
     
  4. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you. It's porn and death grip that are primarily the problem. I only kmow this because when he stopped he was able to O from my hand and mouth when we went a year with him not being able to. I don't discount that it could be other issues like anxiety or unresolved anger. But I can't get to explore those with him because he won't discuss the subject at all. I think the biggest issue is that he is thwarting communication entirely. IMO part of recovery from addiction is being able to sit with negative emotions. Most addicts did not want to sit with them to begin with which is why they become addicted. New coping skills need to be developed. He can't sit with bad feelings. I appreciate your perspective and I find others open and honest thoughts so helpful. But it's just not realistic to ask the partner to not discuss the issue.
     
  5. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    Not communicating is simply not ok.
     
  6. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    He obviously doesn't want to deal with the underlying issue/s at hand which again to me is immature.
     
  7. anewhope

    anewhope Fapstronaut

    Hi GG2002,

    I have just read your entire thread and would like to offer my opinion in the hope that it will help you.

    Honesty is fundamental to a relationship. The aggression, defensiveness and gaslighting that your fiance is displaying are not the typical behaviours of a man who is being honest. I think that you need to take a stand at this point of your relationship and set out the behaviours you expect of him if you are going to stay with him and top of the list should be honesty. This is the approach @Jolie and others have taken to rescue their relationships and it seems to have worked for them. If he is not prepared to be completely honest with you then my advice would be to finish the relationship.

    If and only if he truly commits to honesty and the future of your relationship and agrees to quit PMO and MO for good and work with you then I would try to cut him a little slack about his DE for a while. I suspect that performance anxiety and loss of self-esteem may be at least part of the problem (assuming he is staying clean). If he knows that you want and expect, above all else, for him to O through PIV then that knowledge will set up anxiety that makes it much more difficult for him to achieve O that way. I suggest that you try to introduce more variety in your love making, transfer more of the focus onto your body and your O than his. Yes men want to O, but they also want to be good lovers and bring their partners to O. Personally, nothing makes me feel more aroused than exploring my wife's body and helping her to O. Let the love making be all about you for a while. Do all your sessions end in an O for him? You could try sometimes finishing without him having an O. If you are filling his head with images and thoughts of your body and he hasn't had an O for a while, that could do wonders for his levels of desire and excitement!

    Good luck.

    ANH
     
    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 and Kenzi like this.
  8. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    Way too excuses
     
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Two women one man. I honestly could not believe what I was hearing and it took everything I had not to scream BS and walk out. I'm a pretty educated individual and so I can see this is wrong. My fiancé is also well educated but not in this field and since he was looking for his behavior to be validated and mine criticized this really was bad for us.
     
  10. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much. I agree that honesty is the key to success. But I don't know that he's not being honest. I think the defensiveness shows lack of honesty but many have commented that it may not. That if they were telling the truth and being questioned all the time they would get angry too.
    As far as O for him there are times we will stop if he does not but since the PMO has stopped the focus in bed is all on him and not by my doing. I ask for him to be more attentive to me but he will not. When he was PMOing he was a much more attentive lover.
     
  11. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    May I give my unfiltered opinion?
     
  12. Beamer_Dreamer

    Beamer_Dreamer Fapstronaut

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    It seems the most difficult thing is getting any ideas in, or out of his mind. I really don't think it's all about the frustration from DE or anything like that. If it was, there would be more of a sadness to it and other signs that show he is insecure. I also think he wouldn't be so defensive from so many things that don't have anything to do with your sex life. He should try to focus on you. I do agree that his focus on himself can hinder his own O quite considerably. If he relaxes and just focuses on making love and pleasuring you, I'm sure he'd find it much easier to come to an O and even get you there too. My wife and I most of the time O at the same time and I always try to focus on her pleasure which also, in turn, pleasures me.
     
  13. anewhope

    anewhope Fapstronaut

    I am trying to be objective and consider both sides of the story, but the more I hear about your fiance the more I question whether he is worth persevering with! Having all the focus on him in bed is not going to do either of you any favours and if you are asking him to be more attentive to you and he is refusing then it sounds as if he is irredeemably self-centred. Your decision of course, and only you know the whole picture, but from what you have shared here, I think it may be time to move on.

    Best wishes and good luck.
     
    Kris456 and GG2002 like this.
  14. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Sure.
     
  15. True-Self

    True-Self Fapstronaut

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    @Drew140 where's the unfiltered opinion? Come on already! I can't stand cliffhangers!
     
    anewhope likes this.
  16. Drew140

    Drew140 Guest

    Time to get rid of him.
     
    anewhope likes this.
  17. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    I think Drew has the right idea, but maybe do a test. @GG2002 Have you tried a trial separation period? I know those can help some couples. I wanted to do that but my husband didn't want to, we made it through barely, but I honestly think if we had done a trial separation it might have made my husband realize sooner the real damage that was inflicted. See how he reacts to a trial separation. If he is sad and get's his act together that's a good sign. If he is like, "Fine go, I don't care" that's bad and that says everything you need to know, which I think would be to leave, just my thoughts.
     
    anewhope likes this.
  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thanks. I can easily come to that conclusion as well. But because I have never dealt with porn addiction or any addiction I was trying to figure out how much of this was the addict and if this was normal behavior. Thanks all! I think a trial separation may be a good idea.
     
  19. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    I'd be really careful about using the "defensive" or "gaslighting" argument. What it does it creates only one possible interpretation, one understanding - anything you say or do or try to explain in response is simply "being defensive." Here's a similar example: I'm going to accuse you of being an alcoholic. In response, try and think of something to say that isn't something an alcoholic would say. Ready?
    @GG2002 You have a real problem. We're all worried about your alcoholism.

    ...

    ...

    See? There is no room for discussion - it has been shut down. After any and everything you say I will simply dismiss what you say as the words of an alcoholic, and I will not actually listen to what you are saying. I have created the conditions in which the conversation has been killed and any possibility of dialogue or connection along with it. There is no openness in calling someone defensive, so no duh it causes a fight - you're not listening to each other. Rather than pointing at someone and saying, "You're being defensive" - which also is a no shit kind of idea: everyone is defensive, even you as you wrote this and even me as I write this response - rather than that, put the emphasis on creating the conditions in which both he and you feel safe to say what is going on. If he wants to not be wrong - F*CKING LET HIM - if there is no one-or-the-other or black-and-white situation then he can't be wrong! And you can't be wrong! And you can both listen to each other and be patient and accept each other and LOVE each other!

    It is not wrong to want to be with a man who can orgasm from intercourse, but does he really need reminding about that every time? Have you not considered that he might already feel like crap and you underlining that is salt in his wounds? What encouragement could you offer him instead? But see, even when you have three people begging you to see it from a different perspective and you yourself have mentioned his improvement (he can orgasm from your mouth and hand, he checks in with you regularly - a big change from the last thread of yours I commented on - he actually went to counsellors, which indicates to me that a significant part of him wants to be in this relationship), but rather than see it a different way you want to deflect, you want to be defensive while accusing him of defensiveness (I told you it was a human thing to do! :/ ). Blame is a really funny thing though - it is discomfort and pain being discharged, but it has no responsibility to it. The blamer is not taking responsibility for and being accountable to his or her part, and is instead throwing it all on the blamee. This is why blame is so corrosive to relationships. (Check out Brené Brown's full talk here, you might find it thought-provoking. I friggin love her).

    There is so much more I could say, but it's not about me, is it? It's about you and your fiancé. You are part of this relationship, and you have power to transform it - for good or ill. You can end it, and you can work to save it. Dropping the defensive argument is a great place to start, in either case.
     
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  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately, I have tried that approach. I read a lot about how to approach someone that reacted defensively like that. It does not work. No matter how you approach it he does not want to talk about issues and it is not just the DE or the PMO abuse, it is anything negative or that he perceives as negative. It can even be sarcasm or teasing. So if I say, what you said above that he is an addict and I am concerned about him, he hears "You are a stupid idiot and disgusting." If I say its your turn to take the garbage out, he hears, "Everything you do is wrong." But I did not say that and I have never said that. And most of our conversations have nothing to do with anyone accepting blame, I am trying to create a dialogue so we can work on things together, but I can never get there. What I am saying is that I can never address any issues with him, he screams yells, and refuses to listen. Before the third word comes out he's already yelling. I respond calmly I don't respond in anger, but then he refuses to talk about the matter at all and just shakes his head and agrees. His purpose is to stop me from bringing up matters so that he does not have to discuss them. If I do bring them up then I get yelled at and it turns into a three day fight and my issue still does not get resolved. I admit I now suffer some anxiety when I have to talk to him about anything. And that's not how things are supposed to be. I should mention that when I asked when he got divorced 8 years ago, he said she was just a word that rhymes with witch. She never told me anything that I did wrong or that she did not like, and then one day she just up and left. I see this as my future, and I can see why she did that. I cannot communicate with him.

    I agree that there does not necessary have to be a wrong person in every discussion. That being said I believe that lying to your partner is wrong, and I do need him to say it is wrong because otherwise he will do it again. There are certain things people need to apologize for in my opinion. Lying is not acceptable. I am not sure what part of me is to blame for my partner being a PMO addict. He was one when he met me and he has had DE since long before we met. So I disagree that this is not black and white, it is to me and I disagree that I am deflecting blame or not taking my own blame. If you can tell me what I am supposed to be taking blame for here I would appreciate it. I am not being sarcastic I really would like to know. Maybe I am truly missing it? I never turned him down for sex, I initiated sex, I do whatever he wants in bed, I was kind, I was understanding. I did not bring it up for months and believed what he told me. That approach got me nowhere but lied to. Yes he went to a counseler and all of them told him he did not have a problem (according to him) and he has not gone back. I suspect he heard none of the negative things the counselor told him, that's just how he listens. There's a difference between wanting to get help and getting help. Like I want to lose 20 pounds but I refuse to diet or exercise. I do not remind him everytime we have sex he does not O I don't have to do that, he knows. Why would I do that? And I don't discuss it with him everyday, maybe once a month outside of sex at an comfortable time. I have encouraged him, I have praised his progress. None of this works.

    I am all about making changes with me to fix the situation because changes from yourself are easier. That being said the only changes I can see to make are, never discuss anything that upsets him, accept our sex life as is, accept lying, and accept PMO. I'm not willing to do any of those things. Those are my boundaries. Communication is crucial to a relationship and he refuses to do it. When one partner betrays another, in my opinion the job of the betrayed partner is to be open to forgiveness and willing to forgive. I am, but he is not doing his part. The betrayed can only take so much of the mental gymnastics to try to get their partner to talk to them. It is not as if we were married for years and problems developed that maybe could have led him to lie or PMO. It was like this from day 1.

    I am not perfect, and I am the total opposite of him in that I apologize for things that are probably not even my fault. I don't care, if someone is hurt by something I did, in this relationship or otherwise I am sorry. And I recognize that sometimes even when I do not think what I did was wrong, it is more important to me for my loved one to not be hurt than it is for me to be right or fight for my own ego. I am not gaining anything by being right, but I am losing something by refusing to apologize, someone I care about. And I have never had problems like this in my past relationships so I am at a loss. If it is me, why did it never happen before in my 20 plus years of dating?

    As others have said I just need to leave. I can only do so much to solve this problem. He needs to not just want to change, but do it. And as time goes on he is not improving he is actually getting worse in the sense of arguing and not listening.
     
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