Physical Abstinence is tougher without Mental Chastity

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by happy camper, Feb 6, 2021.

Do you still fantasise?

  1. Yes

  2. No

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. happy camper

    happy camper Fapstronaut

    What I mean by this is that when the repetitive act of MO and the incessant watching of P has reached the inner depths of the psyche and starts to governs underlying day-to-day thought processes and if we continue to fantasise and ogle, imo it's a form of self torture. The journey to full recovery is difficult enough and by continually engaging in mental imagery that no longer serves us from what is the residual of months/years of engaging in PMO, we are not helping ourselves truly recover from this destructive habit. By regaining control of our inner mental and subconscious processes, we may truly give ourselves a chance of overcoming this addiction. Meditation and journaling has helped me gain these insights, maybe you could give it a try. Find a healthier way to deal with what you are feeling, because on this journey to sobriety there will be things that come up from the depths of your psyche. Resolve it now! No time like the present. Keep going, you got this! Never give up!
    strongforce84 likes this.
  2. wuxor

    wuxor Fapstronaut

    I agree with you. I wouldn't be surprise that even without being actively fantasizing, P could still have a consequence our behavior/attitude in a unconscious way. Even if I avoid all external triggers, I still have thoughts that pop up in my mind and that I need to learn how to handle.

    Meditation is good to become more aware of our thoughts and senses. Journaling is good for self reflecting. I would add that therapy is probably also a good way to start this process by getting the help of a professional. I have never done it, but I consider it more and more. At least having this community and being able to talk with others about this is also very helpful.
  3. WHMvsPMO

    WHMvsPMO Fapstronaut

    I'd take this a little further and include non-sexual fantasizing - like for example if you're angry with someone telling that person off. (thinking of myself of course)

    Aside from that there's also a question of what part of you does the fantasizing. During waking ours we can choose to stop that kind of daydreaming but when sleeping or waking up in that half asleep state it may not include much voluntary control.

    So to me the question seems to be, if we're even aware of it what part is fantasizing and whether we can become aware of that part so it's not unconsciously repeating those thoughts.
  4. happy camper

    happy camper Fapstronaut

    My only issue with therapy is that DSM-V does not recognise PMO as an addiction, or even recognise it at all. Unless you are seeing a specialty therapist (at your own risk) or have joined SAA (difficult in Covid times), the options to deal with the addiction are pretty limited. Your best best would be the NoFap community and also personal spiritual exploration. Let go of the mental fixation on counting days and proactively work on yourself and see the magic happen my friend. Meditation helped me to create distance between the urges/thoughts that were constantly popping up in my head and journaling first thing in the morning (longhand, not on the computer) helped me gain clarity about those thoughts. Maybe you could try the same. Nip the repetitive, toxic thoughts in the bud.

    "Where attention goes, energy flows. Where intention goes, energy flows." - James Redfield
    josedelamuerte likes this.
  5. happy camper

    happy camper Fapstronaut

    By engaging in those thoughts on a conscious level, we have encouraged the mind to take those same processes to the subconscious level. By quieting the mind, we can access those subconscious levels of thought and bring them to the surface. There we can wield the mental katana with precision and cut these thoughts out once and for all. There will be a lot of thoughts that have sunk below and once you actively try to weed them out, they will occasionally surprise you in their intensity & frequency, but for the most part if you work towards letting them go, the power they hold over you will start to weaken. Persistence is key.
  6. WHMvsPMO

    WHMvsPMO Fapstronaut

    Second on the journaling by hand, even the non-dominant hand.

    However if it's a matter of writing a LOT where it's not practical without typing maybe a minimalist word processor like DarkRoom, WriteRoom or PyRoom.
  7. wuxor

    wuxor Fapstronaut

    Maybe it depends on the country and type of therapist, but I believe some are open to help with any kind of problems people are facing even if it is not an addiction. But I don't have personal experience with that, so I can't really say.

    What you are saying though is really helpful. Thank you! I really need to pick up the journaling habit and then the meditation habit.
    happy camper likes this.
  8. josedelamuerte

    josedelamuerte Fapstronaut

    Couldn't agree more about meditation. When an urge is so overwhelming that it compels you to hurt yourself (not necessarily physically, but by engaging in activities that are harmful to you) the only place you can really go is just being in the present moment. That's really what the practice of meditation is all about, and I'd have a hard time altering any destructive behavior without it.

    As for fantasies - sure, it would be great to go without them - but in my experience, any attempt to govern the mind is an exercise in futility. As Alan Watts puts it - it's like "trying to smooth rough water with a flat iron, you're just going to disturb it all the more". The thoughts will arise, for as long as they will arise, and sometimes you will be more successful at noticing them without getting involved, sometimes you won't be as vigilant and they'll carry you off for a while. I prefer not to think of one of these outcomes as desirable and the other as undesirable. I aim for the former, bur choose to accept the latter just the same.

    I've already got my hands full with not watching porn and avoiding triggers, and I certainly don't want to introduce a layer of judgement into my mind.
  9. spoto2

    spoto2 Fapstronaut

    Chastity is freedom from sexual impurities, not necessarily freedom from sexual ... a deep appreciation of the emotional, physical, mental and spiritual aspects of ... that could lead to passion and desire, making it harder to abstain from sexual ..
  10. happy camper

    happy camper Fapstronaut

    It's difficult for me to agree with the statement that "any attempt to govern the mind is an exercise in futility." It may be true if the understanding of the mechanism of the mind is lacking, but through daily practise you too can learn to feed the mind the fodder it really needs. Not the bullshit we've been feeding it for years. So be patient and learn to observe your thoughts without judging them. I think that's the key, is to withdraw that initial judgement that the mind is such an expert at. The undoing will take some time and by daily practise and not getting attached to the outcome, we give ourselves a chance.

    Again, instead of fighting the old, spend more time and energy building the new. I too was stuck in the trap of trying to get to a number of days, but after many many attempts over the last 3 or so years I've realised that the obsession with the counter is yet another addiction. And it's easy to relapse/reset because then you just go back to 0. And then we beat ourselves up that we couldn't even make it to so and so day. Sadly, this perpetuates the cycle. Break free from it. Be the you that you know you're capable of being. And don't be so hard on yourself. We are our harshest critics, we all need some self-love too man.

    Are you self-destructive? Are you destructive of your self? Are you destructive of your true nature? These are questions to ponder.
  11. happy camper

    happy camper Fapstronaut

    What I was trying to say is this (from BuddhaGuySid on NoFap subreddit) :

    The more you resist, the stronger what you resist becomes.

    To defeat it, accept it and then move on - it will lose all power.

    There is nothing mystical about reality. It's all much more simple than that.

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