PIED: How bad is fantasizing for recovery?

Rox7

Rox7

Fapstronaut
I am 24 going on 25 and I have had serious PIED for 4-5 years, to the point where I couldn't even get full erections during PMO, but I still get morning wood sometimes. I have been without PMO for 2 months. I have not seen any improvement, though with the issue being as bad as it is, I wasn't expecting to this early.

The pattern seems to be that I'll have a period of 1-2 weeks without significant temptations, but then the temptations will get very high for a few days, and then back to lower levels, and it'll repeat. Now during these times of high temptation, I've found myself fantasizing about sex from a first-person perspective some of the time, but also about P at other times.

So my question is: how much is this hurting my recovery from PIED? Can you recover from PIED without having god-like control of your mind?

So far I have focused mostly on just abstaining from the physical act of PMO, and to some extent I have tried to stop fantasizing when I catch myself doing it, but it's much harder than abstaining from the physical act. Am I not able to make progress because I still have vivid memories of P in my head sometimes? If anyone has had experience with recovering from serious PIED, that would be especially helpful.
 
My libido returned at roughly the day you're at now and before that I fantasised here and there - usually my mind wanders in the morning before getting up. Whether I'd have recovered quicker without doing so I don't know, really it's impossible to say but the important thing is that it didn't stop me from recovering. Keep doing what you're doing, maybe occasional fantasising has a small(1-2%) effect on reboot but as long as you don't allow it to lead anywhere then I wouldn't place much importance on it.
 
Really bad. It has been shown in studies that thinking about the addictive substance is almost near identical to actually using it (in the brain though, im not comparing body-like changes due to heroine use or something). The thing is, when you think about your addictive substance, or experiences of it, you are firing up the pathways linked to the addiction, and thus keeping them well in place and strength. The point of abstaining is to weaken the neurological pathways so they will grow smaller over time and won't be able to 'take over' your brain anymore. But as I said, studies have shown that just thinking about the addiction will fire up those pathways, thus keeping them well in place. Neurological pathways only diminish and grow weaker of you DON'T give them attention. That is also why you 'unlearn' things you haven't done in a very long time, because the pathways were not maintained and thus started to diminish.
 
Daxos said:
Really bad. It has been shown in studies that thinking about the addictive substance is almost near identical to actually using it (in the brain though, im not comparing body-like changes due to heroine use or something). The thing is, when you think about your addictive substance, or experiences of it, you are firing up the pathways linked to the addiction, and thus keeping them well in place and strength. The point of abstaining is to weaken the neurological pathways so they will grow smaller over time and won't be able to 'take over' your brain anymore. But as I said, studies have shown that just thinking about the addiction will fire up those pathways, thus keeping them well in place. Neurological pathways only diminish and grow weaker of you DON'T give them attention. That is also why you 'unlearn' things you haven't done in a very long time, because the pathways were not maintained and thus started to diminish.
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So have I not made any progress because of P thoughts every now and then, even while abstaining from physically PMO-ing for two months? How can I stop this and recover from PIED if thoughts come into my head uncontrollably?
 
Only marginal progress. Most progress will be because of:
1. no more prolactin overdoses due to orgasms (look prolactin effects up, they suck. it's basically the worthless, lazy and empty feeling you get afterwards)
2. stabilization of hormones and endorphines
3. clearer mind and more rest to the mind
4. slight stabilization of dopamine since thinking of porn is much less demanding and pleasurable than actually engaging in it

BUT, your progress has only been small. You NEED to clear your entire existence of PMO to truly heal. Many guys do 120 days NoFap, see no results and then complain that NoFap doesn't work. Then I ask them whether they truly abstained, and then they tell me "yeah no i just watch sometimes and i think about girls all the time if i dont have porn", and i'm like: you no figure that you don't see results... you just replaced one source of porn with another. You fell into the same trap. It happens to many of us

Please remind me tomorrow to come to the second part of your question. It's late and I need sleep for my exams tomorrow xd
 
Daxos said:
Only marginal progress. Most progress will be because of:
1. no more prolactin overdoses due to orgasms (look prolactin effects up, they suck. it's basically the worthless, lazy and empty feeling you get afterwards)
2. stabilization of hormones and endorphines
3. clearer mind and more rest to the mind
4. slight stabilization of dopamine since thinking of porn is much less demanding and pleasurable than actually engaging in it

BUT, your progress has only been small. You NEED to clear your entire existence of PMO to truly heal. Many guys do 120 days NoFap, see no results and then complain that NoFap doesn't work. Then I ask them whether they truly abstained, and then they tell me "yeah no i just watch sometimes and i think about girls all the time if i dont have porn", and i'm like: you no figure that you don't see results... you just replaced one source of porn with another. You fell into the same trap. It happens to many of us

Please remind me tomorrow to come to the second part of your question. It's late and I need sleep for my exams tomorrow xd
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Thank you for your reply. I have no doubt that kicking the physical habit of PMO has been a big step in the right direction. But it seems it will only get me so far, and now I have to kick the mental side of it as well. I have not gone as far as to watch any P but I have had vivid memories and mental P flashes, and I have unfortunately seen some explicit images here and there, though nothing I would have used for PMO in the past; it was more clinical-type images. Still, I need to find a way to purge the fantasies and P thoughts. It seems the fantasies come during periods of high temptation. It's been a few days of that every few weeks or so.

Only because you asked me to, here's a reminder to answer the second part of my question. :) All the best.
 
Rox7 said:
Thank you for your reply. I have no doubt that kicking the physical habit of PMO has been a big step in the right direction. But it seems it will only get me so far, and now I have to kick the mental side of it as well. I have not gone as far as to watch any P but I have had vivid memories and mental P flashes, and I have unfortunately seen some explicit images here and there, though nothing I would have used for PMO in the past; it was more clinical-type images. Still, I need to find a way to purge the fantasies and P thoughts. It seems the fantasies come during periods of high temptation. It's been a few days of that every few weeks or so.

Only because you asked me to, here's a reminder to answer the second part of my question. :) All the best.
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Thank you for the reminder.
You can recover even without god-like control. You don't need that. You just need to do all you can to weaken the neurological pathways connected to PMO use. You do this by starving it of attention. do not think about PMO, do not engage in it (f*cking obviously) and learn to redirect the energy that is now replaced by not engaging in PMO activity.

Trust me, that last part is imperative. You will find even after 1 week that you will gain much more energy and power. You NEED to redirect that power of you will fall back to PMO to let go of that energy. The energy must flow. That is why guys who do NoFap and stay home and do nothing else, will ALWAYS relapse. They will get their old power, their innate power, back from abstaining from PMO, but then they have no outlet and the urges will redirect that energy back to PMO, and thus your cycle of improvement is broken and you lose all your power again. And then the horrible feeling of restlessness, fatigue and numbness returns... And then you're back in relapse-mode for who knows how long until you break out again.

So the most important thing is to fully engage yourself in new activities. Starve the fuck out of PMO. It will have no chance. It will remain a servant of your will until it has become so weak that it's voice shall never be heard again.
 
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So do you think having sex with a partner is benefical for healing?
I noticed some of the old effects (brain fog, bad feeling etc) the next days after sex.
But they were much lower than months before I started PMO.

Daxos said:
Thank you for the reminder.
You can recover even without god-like control. You don't need that. You just need to do all you can to weaken the neurological pathways connected to PMO use. You do this by starving it of attention. do not think about PMO, do not engage in it (f*cking obviously) and learn to redirect the energy that is now replaced by not engaging in PMO activity.

Trust me, that last part is imperative. You will find even after 1 week that you will gain much more energy and power. You NEED to redirect that power of you will fall back to PMO to let go of that energy. The energy must flow. That is why guys who do NoFap and stay home and do nothing else, will ALWAYS relapse. They will get their old power, their innate power, back from abstaining from PMO, but then they have no outlet and the urges will redirect that energy back to PMO, and thus your cycle of improvement is broken and you lose all your power again. And then the horrible feeling of restlessness, fatigue and numbness returns... And then you're back in relapse-mode for who knows how long until you break out again.

So the most important thing is to fully engage yourself in new activities. Starve the fuck out of PMO. It will have no chance. It will remain a servant of your will until it has become so weak that it's voice shall never be heard again.
Click to expand...
 
Rox7 said:
I am 24 going on 25 and I have had serious PIED for 4-5 years, to the point where I couldn't even get full erections during PMO, but I still get morning wood sometimes. I have been without PMO for 2 months. I have not seen any improvement, though with the issue being as bad as it is, I wasn't expecting to this early.

The pattern seems to be that I'll have a period of 1-2 weeks without significant temptations, but then the temptations will get very high for a few days, and then back to lower levels, and it'll repeat. Now during these times of high temptation, I've found myself fantasizing about sex from a first-person perspective some of the time, but also about P at other times.

So my question is: how much is this hurting my recovery from PIED? Can you recover from PIED without having god-like control of your mind?

So far I have focused mostly on just abstaining from the physical act of PMO, and to some extent I have tried to stop fantasizing when I catch myself doing it, but it's much harder than abstaining from the physical act. Am I not able to make progress because I still have vivid memories of P in my head sometimes? If anyone has had experience with recovering from serious PIED, that would be especially helpful.
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Yes yes yes. All of this. Fantasizing is the hardest to overcome b/c we are wired for it to perpetuate the proliferation of the species.

but I can tell you from my experience it does impede progress on a reboot. Your addiction, deprived of its porn mainline, turns to fantasizing to get that rush.

They will happen, since most of us don’t have god-like mental control. When it happens, acknowledge it, try some deep breathing and redirect attention elsewhere. A lot of fappers use meditation and I use it (not as frequently as I should) as well with some success.

I’d say it’s not about controlling your mind as much as it is about redirecting it. Something like this :

Damn—look at that ass. I could tear that up...

Wait. I’m doing it again. Yes that is a nice ass but I am not going to fantasize about it.

[four deep slow breaths]

I’m going back to my original thought, which is why do so many people feel TikTok is a valid communication channel when it is literally just conditioning our brains to have even shorter attention spans while consuming useless visual stimuli?”

you get the idea.
 
Rox7 said:
I am 24 going on 25 and I have had serious PIED for 4-5 years, to the point where I couldn't even get full erections during PMO, but I still get morning wood sometimes. I have been without PMO for 2 months. I have not seen any improvement, though with the issue being as bad as it is, I wasn't expecting to this early.

The pattern seems to be that I'll have a period of 1-2 weeks without significant temptations, but then the temptations will get very high for a few days, and then back to lower levels, and it'll repeat. Now during these times of high temptation, I've found myself fantasizing about sex from a first-person perspective some of the time, but also about P at other times.

So my question is: how much is this hurting my recovery from PIED? Can you recover from PIED without having god-like control of your mind?

So far I have focused mostly on just abstaining from the physical act of PMO, and to some extent I have tried to stop fantasizing when I catch myself doing it, but it's much harder than abstaining from the physical act. Am I not able to make progress because I still have vivid memories of P in my head sometimes? If anyone has had experience with recovering from serious PIED, that would be especially helpful.
Click to expand...

Abstaining from PMO physically is a great step. However, most people on this site know that porn addiction is a mental health issue, so our thoughts and fantasies greatly alter our healing process.

The way I understand it is that there is a significant difference between thinking about fantasies and fantasizing.

Thinking about fantasies would be something along the lines of seeing a girl in a pretty dress outside and thinking about like kissing her legs or some shit.

Fantasizing would be going back to your room, lying in your bed, and thinking about kissing that girl's legs.

Thinking about fantasies is normal and healthy, but fantasizing is not good for your recovery. Consciously activating the neural pathways in your brain wired to arousal during your reboot is only going to slow you down. Fantasizing should be avoided at all costs.
 
Daxos said:
Only marginal progress. Most progress will be because of:
1. no more prolactin overdoses due to orgasms (look prolactin effects up, they suck. it's basically the worthless, lazy and empty feeling you get afterwards)
2. stabilization of hormones and endorphines
3. clearer mind and more rest to the mind
4. slight stabilization of dopamine since thinking of porn is much less demanding and pleasurable than actually engaging in it

BUT, your progress has only been small. You NEED to clear your entire existence of PMO to truly heal. Many guys do 120 days NoFap, see no results and then complain that NoFap doesn't work. Then I ask them whether they truly abstained, and then they tell me "yeah no i just watch sometimes and i think about girls all the time if i dont have porn", and i'm like: you no figure that you don't see results... you just replaced one source of porn with another. You fell into the same trap. It happens to many of us

Please remind me tomorrow to come to the second part of your question. It's late and I need sleep for my exams tomorrow xd
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does a 30 second fantasy about something that is not that pornographic count as a relapse?
 
modernstore99 said:
Abstaining from PMO physically is a great step. However, most people on this site know that porn addiction is a mental health issue, so our thoughts and fantasies greatly alter our healing process.

The way I understand it is that there is a significant difference between thinking about fantasies and fantasizing.

Thinking about fantasies would be something along the lines of seeing a girl in a pretty dress outside and thinking about like kissing her legs or some shit.

Fantasizing would be going back to your room, lying in your bed, and thinking about kissing that girl's legs.

Thinking about fantasies is normal and healthy, but fantasizing is not good for your recovery. Consciously activating the neural pathways in your brain wired to arousal during your reboot is only going to slow you down. Fantasizing should be avoided at all costs.
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Ah I see, how far back do you think it takes someone back in recovery?
 
Daxos said:
No
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(a little late)
Oh thanks man, hey since then I have seen great progress to the point of a few days of being healed.... then went back into a flatline of almost 3 weeks. I wanna ask you about fantasizing of real girls you know about and it being vanilla? of course I didnt force them, they just came and went. But I wanna ask you if that sets back progress or if... its a relapse as a whole (please note that I have had no urge to watch porn at all since Feb 7th, and this flatline seems to be better than my first one) thanks in advance
 
Just chiming in to support what others have said.
Fantasizing is just a weaker version of P
Stray thoughts are normal and can't be helped, choosing to dwell on them and play them out is detrimental and on you
If you're having a rough time, try staying actively engaged in something intellectually or physically demanding

hervesta said:
(a little late)
I wanna ask you about fantasizing of real girls you know about and it being vanilla? of course I didnt force them, they just came and went. But I wanna ask you if that sets back progress or if... its a relapse as a whole
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Same thing, if you didn't keep thinking about it, it's not a relapse. I'd even say it's encouraging that you're noticing real women now instead of the stylized ones from a screen. Keep at it though, don't feed the thoughts and keep working at productive things. Keep your shoulders back, pet a cat, think of yourself as someone worth helping, that kind of thing
 
Meshuga said:
Just chiming in to support what others have said.
Fantasizing is just a weaker version of P
Stray thoughts are normal and can't be helped, choosing to dwell on them and play them out is detrimental and on you
If you're having a rough time, try staying actively engaged in something intellectually or physically demanding


Same thing, if you didn't keep thinking about it, it's not a relapse. I'd even say it's encouraging that you're noticing real women now instead of the stylized ones from a screen. Keep at it though, don't feed the thoughts and keep working at productive things. Keep your shoulders back, pet a cat, think of yourself as someone worth helping, that kind of thing
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thanks man, I needed that, I was like "no way I'm like 90% healed" then BAM. Flatline thats gonna be 3 weeks... I am praying immensely that I see healing within these next months
 
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