PMO addicts,shame and secrets

I agree that addiction thrives in secrecy and the shame associated with it can drive a person back to their addiction.

However, a person can recover from PMO and no longer desire and enjoy fetishes that that they viewed when in their addiction. Thus, much of what they viewed was due to porn and dopamine escalation and NOT indicative of their true sexuality and it isnt something they view or enjoy any longer.

So, what would be the point of detailing everything they ever viewed years ago now that they no longer have those desires?

There may be valid reasons, but if they no longer like that stuff, then its not their true sexuality.

 

In a way, I think you might be saying you can be healed, still be interested in some sort of fetish or act and it can be ok to want do those things with your partner.

And if that's what you're saying, I would agree with you.

Hopefully people can make the realization Lewis is talking about, where if they still have a fetish, it's not necessarily because you are a pervert and you're questioning yourself "am I still sick" but you have enough insight into yourself to know, "this is what I like and I like doing it with my partner". Whatever is healthy of course.

 

Often a person is a bit of mystery to themselves. Introspection is all murkiness, not all light. What we exactly 'are' might not be so obvious... and so also the 'disclosure'. More certain is that we are, or should be, in a process of becoming something we want to be.

And a relationship may help us here. Instead of a self-contained unit, we grow and develop in a relationship. And the nature of that relationship itself may be thought of in ideal terms; we might not want to drag some 'fetish' we may have into it, but rather would like to see that anti-social unhealthy fetish left behind us to shrivel up and die. With this view of relationships, you are not going to enter one lightly. And this kind of relationship well may be for life [many enter lightly into relationships because of sex addiction].

The addict should NOT enter into a relationship. Once recovered, an ex-addict, no problemo. He has paid his dues.

What is important, if you desire a relationship, is to find someone where you can become a great couple together. Without this moral factor, where two are on a spiritual path together, relationships may be doomed to a fate like poor Sisyphus.

 

So you demonise them for feeling too shameful and guilty to reveal their past or recent pmo addicted habits/interests?

Has it maybe not occurred to you that a large percentage of pmo addicts dont decide they are addicts after they watch typical genres like those listed on the top 10 most searched terms on PHub?

Openness is good if the peak of your addiction was Kim Kardashain sex tape.

But some people went deep in the rabbit hole. It's not so easy to speak about, and shouldn't be something forced either. An addict has to come to terms with it, within themselves before they should be expected to shout it to everyone.

 

No, definitely not. The shame and secrecy come after the addiction. If you look at any addiction, such as cocaine, or gambling, or PMO, many or all lived happy lives before they became addicted. The shame and guilt arise from engaging in those activities.

It really depends on if the person is really into it, or if it is a fetish. Because if it is a fetish then that desire can dissipate. Now it doesn't seem clear what is normal healthy behavior and what is not, and no one seems to have a good idea about it:
https://www.nofap.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-know-what-is-a-fetish.101106/
My takeaway, which I had before I made the thread, was that if the desire disappears with abstinence from PMO and engaging in the activity, then maybe it was a fetish. But am not sure about this.

I think that if one is asked about it, one should be open. But if someone gave up an addiction a long time ago and has no desire for it (but don't know if this is really possible), then I don't know if bringing it up is useful or beneficial? Especially if the PMO was related to a fetish, which is not going to be part of the sexual relationship.

 

I think it is possible because you see an 'urge' diminish from something like the force of a tidal wave to something like a ripple. The more difficult aspect for 'long term maintenance' has to be in controlling that sense of absolute freedom, where you can stir the waters up, in some moment of boredom or stress, with just a click of the mouse. The subordination of our freedom to some moral principle no doubt helps here; the rational desire to do the right thing must over-ride the natural desire to do the wrong thing.

 

I agree mostly with you, that it's easier to be open for example if you stayed within the boundaries of the law, but if you ended up looking at things that got you in trouble yet started out viewing vanilla porn, it becomes a whole different discussion for most people. I think a lot of people out there don't connect the dots between PMO and escalating onto really bad stuff, but it happens far too often for PMO to be insignificant. In most cases of escalation whereby the individual has moved on to content that is not legal, it has taken quite some time for them to escalate to that phase, however if you have been in a situation where PMO has landed you in legal problems then I would say it's vital that you are honest with any potential partners because not being honest will just make you out to be even worse. For me personally, i'm probably going to be alone for the rest of my life because of my past but I've come to accept that, for the people who have had porn addiction and have not broken any laws, they are likely to be able to get into relationships a lot easier.

 

PMO addiction is, from my experience, a manifestation of a severe inability to allow yourself to experience intimacy. Or to be able to find intimacy. But when you're in a relationship, it's the former. The porn comes in because masturbation is inherently less arousing than sex, so it requires extra stimulation. But the underlying problem is something internal that makes one struggle to accept being reliant on another person.

What I'm, badly, getting at is that PMO is a symptom, not a disease. It's a way of avoiding the necessary openness in a relationship, a way to control your weakness by yourself.

I'm not condoning my own, or anyone's, porn use or the harm it has caused to SOs. But to understand it, and to fix it, the underlying issue has to be solved. For me it was social awkwardness through my 20s which made romantic involvement difficult to achieve. Not trying was easier. When I fluked into a relationship with a brilliant woman, I discovered I had (as yet unattributed to porn) sexual performance problems. It was easier to continue using than deal with that. But the porn continued to be a medication for a deeper problem. For many men, until the problem is identified and tackled head on, giving up porn will be impossible.

 

Disclosing PMO addiction: easier said than done. It is like any addiction. The addicted person will not recognize it is an addiction, seek for help, etc . As any addiction, it starts relatively "benign". Then, there is an increasing need for more. Then comes the addictive patterns. And shame, secrecy, etc. It will for sure mess up relationships, sexual life, etc. But in most cases, the addiction is so powerful that is it hard to control and leave. I was addicted for more than 20 years and it took me years to tell my wife. For me, PMO was not about the sex itself or a particular fetish, it was about doing something that would make me feel good for a few minutes/hours. Sometimes PMO also allowed me to escape reality. It sounds like an illicit drug... I guess that's the addictive pattern.

 

I realise I didn't directly address the secrecy point. But it's related. Definitely the sharing of fetishes you've gotten into is difficult. Some of that is because you don't think that's really you, some of that is shame, but a lot of it is the deeply introverted nature of what you're doing. I've watched pretty much every kind of legal (sorry, but needs saying) porn there is, and almost none of it is stuff I'd like to do with my SO. We've also never talked about much of it - in fact she's said she doesn't want to know, barring the stuff I felt I needed to say. Yeah there's stuff I think would spice things up for us, now that I'm willing to talk to her openly about sex, but a huge amount of it is shit I looked at to keep masturbation interesting and therefore continue to avoid intimacy.

I know that regaining trust involves ending secrecy. But I can't help thinking that an SO should consider what information is and isn't helpful. I'm sure that many SOs would be more open minded than we addicts think, but there's something to be said for not forcing a guy (or girl) to feel more shame than the overall admission already leads to.

 

Nobody is obligated to share their secrets with you. Although I do agree that being open in a relationship is a positive thing, being open about sexuality, especially that of an addict, is another matter entirely. Addicts in general aren't exactly proud of their current or past behaviors. As for sexuality, porn sometimes leads some of us down a road of weird fetishes we never thought we'd be into, and sometimes they are things we don't really want to share with anyone. You can't just be like "hey, let's watch this weird crap you're completely ashamed about together!" It just doesn't work that way. It's important to be understanding of someone with any addiction than judging them or being mad at them for it. Obviously you shouldn't condone of addiction, but being empathetic and understanding goes a long way. It takes two to make a relationship work. I'm sure you wouldn't feel too great if your SO judged you for something in your past you aren't proud of. You can theorize all you want, but when it comes down to it, the science of how pornography affects the brain is a very new field of science. We can hypothesize all day, but being here with other people sharing our experiences without the fear of being judged is what helps us cope with our issues. So being open, not necessarily with an SO, but with SOMEONE, be it a therapist, or someone with similar experiences in a forum, is a good thing, I agree. Having been where I was and where I am, I am fully empathetic to those sharing similar experiences ... or to those suffering from any sort of mental anguish. Addiction is not black and white ... and being upset that someone doesn't share all their demons with you may not be the best mindset to have. Whether you believe the type of porn someone is ashamed of should be something to be ashamed of at all is not the point. Addiction goes a lot deeper than someone people may realize. It can take years to get over. Obviously having the love and support from an SO is helpful, but that always isn't an option depending on the situation, and you shouldn't be upset over it unless that person is allowing the issue to damage the relationship. There are just too many variables to consider. It really isn't a black and white issue, and your small observational window into people's experiences, regardless of the length of time they've been addicted, is not something you can use to generalize, since literally everyone is completely different and dealing with it in their own way.