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Discussion in 'NoFap Technical Support and Feedback' started by Alexander, Apr 15, 2017.
Curious what NoFap's community thinks of this.
Aren't these available under Groups already?
Yes. But for some reason I've spotted a lot of religious content in the main forum sections, making me feel that there is a potential desire for a place to discuss it.
its my understanding nofap is 'secular' and the policies are intended to be 'neutral' but really end up being anti-religious.
for example, in the general help , I can post that:
Mediation (in the sense of eastern spiritual practice - the imagery is also 'allowed' - the crosslegged mediator but christian symbols are not) helped me quit.
therapy helped me quit
cold showers helped me quit
OCD mental techniques helped me quit...
God helped me quit? The Jesus prayer form of mediation helped me quit? Seeing myself as a child of God helped me quit? Seeing my body as the temple of God made me stop? ... the usual response is 'take it to your journal.
I don't think it should be separated. I think we can respectfully interact no matter what beliefs we have.
Not much activity in here (unlike Hope's post, lol) so I'd give my two cents.
Believing and faith are something that everyone has to come to terms with as part of himself.
I've seen people achieving great things by starting to believe. I've seen people carrying on through extreme hardships in their life only clinging to their faith at times and overcoming these troubles.
So even as someone not believing in it, I acknowledge it's power and presence and I'll be the last one to say something to someone regarding this.
However, I'm not sure wether a separate believe section would split this community.
@Nomar said it perfectly. It should not be separated. We should be able to respectfully interact no matter what beliefs we have. (Can't say it better, so... )
@ivanhoe it's sad that this is the usuall response you received but it goes both ways, I'd also had some almost harsh comments on some things I said that conflicted with some peoples believes (but sorted it out with them personally).
Some people just can't seperate it. Stay strong.
I think having plenty of sub-forums are the way to go.. where people might want to explicitly discuss a certain issue with like-minded people. But then this should not be a 'sanitizing' exercise, where a certain perspective on things should be restrained to a certain area. You'd still want to see commerce and freedom of movement across the borders.
But say you are moving into a secular part of the forum, you'd want to restrict your conversation to the common rational humanistic level of psychology and philosophy etc, where people of diverse beliefs may share a common language. That would just be polite... and liberal.
Meditation is secular. It can be tied in with spiritual practices but it is, at its essence, secular. There is scientific evidence backing up meditation and therapy. I'm not saying religion doesn't belong on NoFap but you have to see why, on a secular platform, those techniques would be treated differently than ideas/suggestions pertaining to religion. Those techniques are neutral.
what if there were scientific evidence backing the jesus prayer?
But the greater point is this - you can say unscientific things that have worked for you if they are secular but not religious - which strikes me as odd because in many ways this is a spiritual problem and spiritual 'religious' belief, study and practice has helped a lot of people - maybe not everyone but enough to be considered an important piece of the puzzle - yet not allowed to be broached in the main forums...
also not everything is 'scientific' or even verfied by 'science' 'science' has been notorious wrong about matters like this and science, like anything else is politicized.
Science has also given us everything in this world, including the computer you're using to spew out your religious nonsense. Science can be wrong, but at least it always progresses and expands on previous knowledge. Your religion is the same since the day it was invented.
Edit: possibly worse than when it was invented.
I don't think there is a technical fix to this. Only if people are truly liberal and rational, only if they share a common rational/ critical culture, will they be able to discuss things constructively from various perspectives.
Actually, the internet, by its very nature, fosters a narrowing of thought, where one can simply communicate with people who are on your own particular 'bandwidth'. In the future, there may be no common consciousness... no doubt this will have a revolutionary impact on politics. The great thing about 'Nofap' is it attracts people from every walk of life. It has the potential to may become the last bastion of tolerance, of truly liberal and free thought!
So you want religion outta here or what?
No, we are all religious animals; we are all compelled to believe in something, whether that be framed in theistic, atheistic, or agnostic terms. Your religious/ ultimate beliefs are always going to inform your views on most things. It's just that people of disparate beliefs will have to discuss matters at the rational/ critical level. This was always the idea of tolerance.
I'm a Christian and in my opinion, unfortunately a lot of Christians get so sanctimonious and self righteous. I personally really dislike designated Christian areas.
I don't necessarily agree with that. Rational people don't just blindly believe in things that have no basis. But that's not a concern to the nofap forum. What you believe in and choose to conduct your life guided by is your own choice and shouldn't affect others. Religious (especially christians for some reason) people here seem to actively and heavily promote their beliefs. It goes without saying that these same people would be highly offended if they were on the receiving end of religious fantasy from another religion.
Sure, but the more rational you become, the more you realize that there is no completely rational basis to anything. This is rational criticism. And then belief, on the other hand, is hard-wired into us. When you consider that a lot of porn use results from doubt, anxiety, despair etc, it is only natural that concerns about belief arise. Personally, I like to keep it at this psychological level. I don't think any form of crusade is helpful here, whether it be materialist, Atheist, Marxist, Feminist, or Evangelical.
I completely agree with your first statement. There really is no rational basis for anything, including the very essence of existence itself. Afterall science has not yet realized what "matter" is and continues to only find smaller and more peculiar forms of matter rather than matter itself. However just because our own bodies and existence aren't tangible we shouldn't dismiss them and resort to spirituality and psychology. Afterall these are processes which are art and not science and by definition can not provide any basis, rational or otherwise, due to their nature but again I would never dismiss psychology or spirituality as having no importance as long as they are not thrust upon me.
Yes, but don't confuse rational with scientific. Scientific method/ practice/ reason is just a subset of rationality. So, for example philosophy is rational, but not scientific.... which gives rise to rational beliefs outside the sphere of science. You could think of science as a branch of philosophy, which is why we have philosophy of science that outlines the limitations of the scientific method.
I guess what I'm saying, in a nutshell, and from the critical perspective [and the scientific perspective for that matter], is that science does not, and can not, provide a worldview. If it does, it then becomes another form of faith.
Yes, but science saturated with philosophy is mere groundless theory. Philosophy alone also can not and should not provide a worldview and must incessantly draw from scientific discoveries so as to enrich and advance itself and deepen its roots with scientific methodologies. Contrast this with the philosophy of religion which effectively leads to a philosophical and scientific dead-end and serves no purpose in the advancement or understanding of the real world.
Ah, but the point is to advance and understand ourselves.