1. Welcome to NoFap! We have disabled new forum accounts from being registered for the time being. In the meantime, you can join our weekly accountability groups.
    Dismiss Notice

Porn isn't the problem, technology is

Discussion in 'Loneliness' started by Rlyq, Feb 17, 2016.

  1. Rlyq

    Rlyq Guest

    I know from a retired uncle of mine of a man who was extremely shy with women. He just couldn't talk to them. One day he had a date come to a restaurant thanks to a matrimonial agency. She was beautiful, but he couldn't even say hi to her, and left. That's pretty stupid because had he talked to a girl once, he would have realized that the hardest has been done after the first few words, whether you end up having sex with her a few weeks later, or feel the pride of having said them despite a rejection. Anyway, a few months later he died while a passenger in a car accident. I think that story is extremely strong. Can you imagine what he thought the last moments he lived? Nobody wants to be that guy. But technology has amplified the share of guys who'll live a similar life.

    If you liked seclusion during the 60's, you'd probably have read books. Books are much more demanding, and rewarding, than the Internet. Not only do they teach you more, they also require more concentration, which makes you want to do something else after a while. That is extremely good, and what a lot of people need, I feel. This endless stream of undemanding entertainment known as the Internet is what's keeping so many of us inside for too long.

    To me nothing is a problem but technology. Some of the past century's greatest artists were shut-ins, and weren't unfamiliar with prostitution, masturbation and drugs. Some members of this forum would want to make us believe those are major confidence problems, but that didn't prevent those men from creating something bold and having children. I'm not saying those activities should be glorified, but unless you become a monk, you don't gain much from living a morally perfect life. As sad as it sounds, people certainly won't reward you for it, least of all attractive women.

    I haven't quit (amateur) porn, and I won't. Just because stopping masturbation is extremely difficult, doesn't mean it's a worthy fight. I do short, few-dayish streaks, and I love how attractive it makes real-world girls. This is however only part of a bigger project - to block about 90% of the Internet thanks to K9 Web Protection and the replacing of my iPhone by a dumbphone. Didn't I own a website, I'd even have tried to go computer-free. I encourage everybody to try to do the same. Porn sites aren't the issue, the network that allows porn sites, Facebook, YouTube, World of Warcraft and so many others in the first place is. Get rid of it all and you'll be forced to progress.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2016
  2. Bale

    Bale Fapstronaut

    253
    348
    63
    I'll stay with that last sentence because that's exactly what I am experiencing right now. I have excluded every passive activity from my life one by one, and now I find myself having too much time and nothing to do with it. Because going back is no option, the only way is forward. Replacing those time-wasting activities with more productive and enriching ones. I write and read a lot more already.
     
  3. IGY

    IGY Guest

    So, your thread is a way of justifying your use of porn is it? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    We've always been surrounded by technology in some form or another. Every generation has found itself coming to terms with some new medium, be it the radio, movies, TV, or the internet. I think this 'coming to terms' is not so much reactionary, or Luddite, as more an ability to hold the new technology at arm's length; to be able to use it as a tool, a means for your ends, whereby you remain the master and it the slave.
     
    BackToManhood likes this.
  5. Golgo 13

    Golgo 13 Fapstronaut

    606
    494
    63
    Prostitution (real sex) and certain routes of administration for certain types of recreational drugs aren't a problem. Porn is. Yourbrainonporn says that porn is harmful to parts of your brain that govern certain neurotransmitters that control libido/sexuality; specifically dopamine, and serotonin. It doesn't say going on youtube makes you have ED.

    I don't need to believe, I know from experience that porn is horrible for you. Sorry, but technology isn't the problem, porn is.
     
    Ikindaknew likes this.
  6. lionace

    lionace Guest

    Thanks for this super-interesting and controversial post. I'd say whether your problem lies in the abuse of technology or the abuse of porn is up to everyone him/her self. For me, to some extent, it's probably both.
    The possibilities to mindlessly get entertained and getting one's lifetime wasted without spending a single thought to where this will lead grew endlessly in the past few years.
    I found it to be extremely dangerous to start a media-related/computer-related action without envisioning what is my desired outcome and how long approximately I will dedicate myself into this... internet-related quests are often unsuccessfull as in terms of I can't find the answer to my question/can't get my problem solved/find the item I'd like to buy and so on... still there lure thousand things to withdraw my attention...
    reminds me of the southpark ep about ads ... lol...

    To make things perfect: I even know of someone who considers himself addicted to reading books... there's no such thing as a safe haven in nowadays addicted society.
    The attitude is the problem I believe.

    Really, thanks for posting this! I was carrying similar thoughts for some time already. I see abstinence from MO as a mean to regain a healthy sexuality, but since I am single I can't really imagine getting it out of my life for good. With porn it is different. I believe I will be entirely free of it someday!
    One could compare this to a person having an eating disorder: one wouldn't recommend him/her to stop eating for good. Little bit extreme example maybe but still...

    Please consider avoiding the explicit naming of x-sites I have often found this triggering...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2016
    Rlyq likes this.
  7. Rlyq

    Rlyq Guest

    My point exactly. With the Internet, you could start a day off of yours at 9 in the morning by watching some Netflix 'just for a bit'. Then that leads to something else, and something else, etc. - it's like some perfusion that makes time disappear. At one point I've lived without the Internet for months, boy my days were long! Even after cooking, doing the laundry, reading and so forth, I still had so much time that I was forced to do something valuable! Then I moved and slowly but surely lost that good habit, got a few professional issues too. But I'm getting back into it these days, and I couldn't not share the advice.

    I'm sorry, but I disagree. I just can't imagine somebody sane watching movies, TV, or listening to the radio for the whole day. Movies always seem to give me that 'conclusion' feeling when they're finished, meaning I'm never likely to start another one just after that, unless I'm sick and staying in bed anyway. TV always gets boring at some point because I have no control over the programming. That might not be true for people who have 100+ channels and the ability to digitally record, but then, that just proves my point: modern tech equals trouble.

    Before the Internet, the arousing material men had at their disposal were either VHS or magazines. We could even go closer to us than that, and include the days when downloading an erotic pic would take the afternoon. Why do we see such an explosion of sexual dysfunctions *now*? Because tech has progressed, and now you could spend eight hours a day for a year masturbating to different girls, and not have to wait, even being able to skip when something's boring to you. To me masturbation is like wine. An occasional glass of it can make life a bit spicier, too much of it and you're certainly hurting yourself. Young men today all have their livers destroyed, some of them will never see a girl naked, and no tech company gives a shit ($). That's what we need to fucking fix, it's intolerable.
     
  8. Buzz Lightyear

    Buzz Lightyear Fapstronaut

    2,690
    2,878
    143
    Try to imagine someone who has never been exposed to the 'silver screen' before, who lived in the slums, and is looking for an escape. Imagine how that technology would just blow their mind, like a blind person seeing for the first time, where they are held, for the first time in their life, in a self-contained black box to have their imagination captivated by all manner of flickering images. It would be quite a psychedelic experience for them, and no doubt addictive. It's akin perhaps to my generation, where we were quite used to viewing TV screens daily, and movies screens weekly, with the standard censored fare, and then the internet came along, where we could watch what we liked and when we liked.

    It's not so much a matter of time, but the potency of the images and the impression they make. A jaded generation is going to seek out ever new novel things to watch. The logic of this kind of consumption has to end in P. Perhaps the repudiation of P entails also the repudiation of a banal life simply composed of consumption.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  9. Ikindaknew

    Ikindaknew Fapstronaut

    1,577
    1,567
    143
    Today's porn offerings are very different than before. Going to the videostore adult section to pick a VHS tape back then was about picking something between these choices:

    -interracial
    - fat ladies
    -movies with a little bit of a story/theme
    -other sexual orientation
    -The fetish stuff...leather
    Back then, I used to "fast-forward" to the moment where the action is taking place...
    You were buying a 4 heads VCR to be able to have clean images while being on "pause"....

    Nowadays, every little fetish has been covered. Some stuff is borderline illegal, or depicting/simulating illegal activity...all in all, some of that stuff will hurt somebody some day.
    If one wants to watch "three legged dwarf bisexual clown threesomes" somebody already filmed it....
    That's the worse part about today's porn...all the nasties are out there. Some viewers are developing a taste for some of the rare, the weird, the bad stuff and try to have their fix of that stuff in real life.

    Imagine that; Hey honey, here is a clown costume for you and some make-up...go dress up, tonight's the night!
    :eek:
     
    Golgo 13 likes this.
  10. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

    700
    1,044
    123
    This may be true in most cases. However try telling a recovering alcoholic that its only a glass of wine. Have a drink. They will not drink - nor should they. Not even a measly glass of wine.

    Masturbating may be normal, even healthy to most people, just like a social glass of wine. This is not the case for porn addicts. Addicts cannot afford a little bit of porn here and a little bit there. Whether the actors (I cringe when I call them actors - they are props) are getting paid or not, or any other factor is completely irrelevant. Any porn use impedes our recovery and leads to serious setbacks.

    Your comment about the technology being the problem is also faulty logic. The technology is a manner in which to deliver the offensive material. To the alcoholic, it does not matter how the beer is delivered, bottle, draft or kegger, it has the same effect. It is still beer. You seem to want to blame the glass rather than the content within the glass that is being swallowed.

    Finally, you refer to wine as some type of tame or more acceptable alcoholic beverage. Wine is still alcohol. A glass of wine can be the equivalent to a shot of whisky or vodka, a bottle of beer, or some fruity cocktail. Are you trying to infer that amateur porn is more socially acceptable? Because if you are, you are dead wrong!!!

    I think your are not admitting that you have an addiction and you are making excuses to continue using pornography.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
    Meshuga and Golgo 13 like this.
  11. lionace

    lionace Guest

    thanks to all contributors for this vivid conversation,

    I'd like to point out to please distinguish between masturbation and the use of pornography as a stimuli.
    I may be mislead but to me it personally makes a dramatical difference whether a statements refers to P or just MO.
    That being said I am still aware of the tight connection between MO and the abuse of P as a multiplier.
     
  12. Headspace

    Headspace Fapstronaut

    1,217
    2,004
    143
    It's about commensurability. Last july I realized I had jacked off enough for my entire life, so I quit, finally giving my body and my overloaded mind an actual chance for recovery. Since then, I have become a better person. I feel it every day. It could partially be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but what would be wrong about that? It is about making a decision and working on your goals. Do it for one aspect of your life, and when you succeed it will be easier to do it for other aspects as well. Furthermore, it's amazing to be able to leave the door to my room open so my roommate or my sister can walk in on me anytime. The same applies to my curtains. My conscience is so much cleaner. I don't need to feel ashamed of myself when I talk to girls anymore. I have broken a chain and I feel free.

    Having said that, I do agree that technology is a huge part of the problem. Consumerism is.
     
    stopthebuzz likes this.
  13. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

    700
    1,044
    123
    I totally agree that technology is part of the problem. It brings the pornography to us with minimal effort on our part. However, that is not the title of the Thread.

    The writer blames the technology exclusively as the problem. He completely lets pornography off the hook. This is a mistake.
     
  14. Rlyq

    Rlyq Guest

    Veritech, you begin your argument by saying my post doesn't apply to all cases. I never said that. However, since you're apparently one of the cases I didn't have in mind, would you be kind enough to not say I'm 'dead wrong, doing mistakes and finding excuses'? This doesn't contribute to a constructive discussion.

    I don't know about extreme porn addiction, I've always been a rather light consumer. I nevertheless missed a lot of fun during my teen years, because I'd masturbate every night, and didn't feel as much attraction for real world girls, as I do again, now.

    But no matter the scope of the damage, it all came through a device connected to the Internet. I've explained why this wasn't a problem, or an extremely marginal one, when men had VHS, magazines, or slow connections. You were therefore paying for services and gear to companies who left you on your own, probably while a teenager. Do you see where I'm coming to?

    Tech is the root problem. No matter if you're a 15yo girl who wants validation and sends nudes, a 13yo horny boy beat-up at school, a 25yo woman who spends her life between iMessage and Instagram, a 16yo hardcore gamer, or a 29yo man who just divorced.

    We're all left free to fuck our lives up in the comfort of our own houses. We're all made vulnerable by modern life, given extreme desires thanks to marketing, and sold fake medication. We're neutralized. The few extremely strong individuals who're able to free themselves from that junk are marginalized, and can be sent back to ground zero after the slightest weakness, as has happened to me.

    This is how tech is a problem of a magnitude that's far beyond porn. For a healthier mankind, the Internet needs to be filtered, limited, or destroyed. Let's not discuss semantics, but do whatever we can to make that goal a tiny bit more real every day.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2016
    lionace likes this.
  15. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

    700
    1,044
    123
    Friends can be friends' toughest critics. My post was in no way meant to offend you.

    Although the following are paraphrased, I believe that you make the following two points, both of which I wholeheartedly disagree with:

    1) You can break your porn addiction while you continue to watch amateur porn; and

    2) The device is the cause of your addiction, not the content that you seek upon your device.

    My response is as follows:

    1) You need to break away from porn completely. You will feel withdrawal. You will miss it. We will support you through your difficult journey.

    2) I agree that it was more difficult in the past to attain porn. But the device itself is not the problem. One can do good things with technology such as reading the news, communicating with friends, playing games, etc. One can also do bad things such as posting racist and derogatory comments and viewing pornography.

    My porn addiction became incremental:

    1) I found my step-brother's stash when I was 16 (about 5 VHS tapes);
    2) When I was 18, I could purchase my own stash at an adult shop and view either at the shop or at home;
    3) When the Internet came out, I could order streaming pay per minute porn without leaving my home; and
    4) With the purchase of a Smartphone I could watch porn for free anywhere and anytime.

    Granted as the technology improved, porn became more available, cheaper and easier to view. However, it was not the technology that automatically brought the porn to me. I sought it out. The consistent theme is the porn, not the progressive technology.

    I respectfully believe that by blaming the technology and continuing to watch porn (albeit less frequently), you are setting yourself up for failure.

    I want you to succeed.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
    Golgo 13 likes this.
  16. Rlyq

    Rlyq Guest

    I wanted to add this reference to the book I'm reading before, but it didn't make sense. I think it does now, so I'll do. This will be my last contribution, though, I'm well aware of the typical '2-protagonist Internet debate' this is becoming.

    1. I'm not trying to cure any addiction, I'm describing what works for me.

    I'm in the middle of some book right now, and the current chapter is covering male-female (in)equality in primitive human ages. Needless to say, this is pretty rough. It's kind of similar to what's going on in the Muslim world, where women are being married, objectified, exchanged, beat up, fucked and impregnated despite their consent. I'm no feminist, but men have always been horny and disgusting beasts in that regard. This is not some 'past historical behavior', I've seen it firsthand in a colleague that came back married and pregnant from a Middle East 'family holiday', not saying a single word for weeks.

    Porn is so popular because all men are extremely horny in the first place, and feel a strong urge to have an orgasm multiple times a week. Look at all the people saying their intelligence got shut down by their libido when relapsing. This is natural. Extremely marginal have always been the ones to bypass that for one reason or another (spirituality, recovery more recently). Like most men, I'm simply using the most convenient way of releasing that tension we have nowadays. I think most of us deal with this just fine, I don't think I'm an exception at all when I say I've never had any sexual impairment while with a girl, despite years of regular porn - otherwise, we would all have gotten rid of it long ago. This is why I think porn in itself is not harmful. What is is the convenience, which leads to more frequency, particularly in already-weakened subjects. Same mechanism as with all addictions and drugs.

    2. I think your examples of good use cases of technology are extremely weak. First, 'I hate the news' (wanted to make that a link, but I'm not allowed. Look up Aaron Swartz's blog post titled this way). And secondly, since we're in the Loneliness forum, I'll say it loud and proud: video games are wasting young men's lives in a way that's very similar to porn, and I'd rather chat with my friends in person! There you go.
     
  17. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

    700
    1,044
    123
    If you believe that porn and chronic masturbation are natural and even healthy, then I respectfully ask you why you are on a forum posting with people who are trying to quit porn and chronic masturbation?
     
    Meshuga likes this.
  18. Rlyq

    Rlyq Guest

    To challenge you :) To be challenged. To share my stance, which is based on NoFap, but also on other sources. To raise awareness about the tech problem, as I feel solving it would help this particular community, but many others at the same time.
     
  19. lionace

    lionace Guest

    Just one thing comes to my mind when reading that: with great power comes great responsibility

    In the middle age there was the inquisition, a high children mortality rate, back when we were hunters and gatherers diseases, the rough laws of nature and our natural enemies which endangered our life.
    Now it is simply something else. We just need to get aware of it or it will lead to the inevitable decline of our race.
    As soon as we've gotten aware of it we ought to be men (and women!) about it and stop whining.
    Let's draw consequences and regain our destinies!
     
  20. Veritech

    Veritech Fapstronaut

    700
    1,044
    123
    Your challenge is that I should return to watching porn, I should start masturbating again and I should stop reading the news.

    I respectfully reject your challenge.

    Instead, I will continue with my own personal challenge of no more porn and no masturbation whatsoever.
     
    Golgo 13 likes this.

Share This Page