Post acute withdrawal and my symptoms. Can you relate?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by DarkSektur, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. Swagnation

    Swagnation Fapstronaut

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    dude having those symptoms for 18 months seems like a total nightmare to me. the discipline you have for not giving in is really a thing i strive for, good job man. by the way does anybody know anything about how long those symptoms, especially the depression, last when you already had depression before nofap? i've been depressed for 5 years now, and through nofap i get new insights in my depression which is good, but it also seems that the depression, especially the part where i don't feel like doing anything (except watching porn) is worse than before. i know that this is probably because i don't numb my thoughts with porn anymore, but does anybody know how long that lasts?
     
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  2. whoami33

    whoami33 Fapstronaut

  3. SLeepisLost

    SLeepisLost Fapstronaut

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    ^ interesting. The guy that was having a perfect life before nofap, would sooner or later in his life, get major brainfog, anxiety and depression, if he kept using porn like that. He got heavy withdrawals after he quit. If he wasnt severely addicted to porn, he would not have major withdrawal symptoms. A friend of mine tried the nofap challenge. He is/was a moderate fapper, and didnt feel that he was addicted. He quit, did not have any urges and had zero withdrawal symptoms. He completed over 120 days. He got lucky, because his genetic makeup is different than most of us. He did feel great without porn and fapping tho. He felt more confident, had more energy and motivation. So porn still fucked up his brain a bit, but he did not have the major brain changes induced by severe addiction. Most addicts have dopamine receptor polymorphisms. The A1 allele op the D2 receptor is mostly involved. Most addicts have decreased D2 presynaptic autoreceptors. Autoreceptors modulate dopamine release in the synaps. The postsynaptic receptors on the dendrites also have a lower expression. The addict feels little motivation or other good feelings because of low D2 postsynaptic expression, so the addict seeks external stimulation to compensate. When he seeks the external stimulation like gambling, sex, porn and drugs, the addict gets way more dopamine in his synapses than a person with "normal" dopaminergic genes. This is because of low expression of the autoreceptors. Autoreceptors work like a negative feedback loop. The less autoreceptors on the axon presynaptic site, the more dopamine release after stimulation like porn, because the firing neuron thinks there isnt enough dopamine in the synaps for the reward. So people with less autoreceptors and postsynaptic receptors get a bigger thrill from external rewarding stimuli. They are more susceptible for addiction. In some cases there might also be a D1 receptor polymorphism involved. This polymorphism makes the D1 receptors more sensitive for dopamine, and upregulates more easily. It makes you more sensitive for dopamine (sensitization) More sensitive D1 receptors, means the brain changes itself more easily after repeated dopamine stimulation. This is because more sensitive/upregulated postsynaptic D1 receptors, means more DeltaFOSB expression inside the postsynaptic neuron. That means the brain changes itself into and addicted state. So nofap did not make his life much worse or caused his symptoms, it was/is porn that made his brain and life much worse.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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  4. im_broken

    im_broken Fapstronaut

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    I have always had a mild ADHD type brain with a natural predisposition for anxiety but boy did it get worse after I sunk into full days, months of video games and PMO, and annoyingly during my brains developmental years. I suspect it has a lot to do with what you're talking about

    Another giveaway for that guy's story is he felt a reduction in his anxiety and depression after being put on a dopamine reuptake inhibitor, of course only delaying upregulation but helping his mental state somewhat while he computed what was going on

    There are definitely genetics at work here, without a doubt
     
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  5. Big Lebowski

    Big Lebowski Fapstronaut

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    I had a relatively normal upbringing albeit a bit of a dysfunctional family at times. I suffered no depression beforehand and as things were tensing up in the house, I started a new job I didn’t like and my porn use ramped up like never before everything became dull. I quit a golfing hobby on the spot because it felt like a switch had been turn off for my enjoyment of the game, I developed ocd like tendencies and adhd like symptoms as the porn got more frequent, I became a lot more impatient with things in general like standing in a que, easily frustrated, couldn’t handle any stress. My grades in school plummeted as well as I used porn, I think even using it once a day or once every other day then still destroyed my motivation. It was like my own life before my eyes was a in a gradually slow declining chaos and at the time I couldn’t pinpoint why or what was causing it.

    As I slowly come out this hell I realise that porn had a major impact on my life, the last ten years has been not living as I should and coming round from this is like waking up from a coma. And too add to this all I’m getting thoughts popping in my head to pick golf up again soon like I’m picking myself up from being a kid again. It’s really weird.
     
  6. BeanBurrito

    BeanBurrito Fapstronaut

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    Do you think there's any way to accelerate recovery and normalize dopamine receptors faster? Or do you think the only cure is time (and obviously staying away from PMO)?
     
  7. SLeepisLost

    SLeepisLost Fapstronaut

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    Maybe levo-tetrahydropalmatine in combination with omega 3's and vitamin d.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydropalmatine

    "Furthermore, brain DA neurons in the heroin addicts may become maladapted due to long-term exposure to morphine and could be readapted by the l-THP treatment. In the experiment of morphine-dependent rats, the levels of glial fibrillary acidic protein (GFAP) and tyrosine hydroxylase (TH) in the DA neurons of ventral tegmental area (VTA) were significantly increased. l-THP treatment significantly decreased the levels of GFAP and TH in the VTA region to normal levels, indicating that the function of the dopaminergic neurons is in recovery[36]. Similarly, the l-THP treatment can reverse the decreases of dopamine D1- and D2-receptor mRNAs in morphine-dependent rats[37]. These results suggest that l-THP treatment can facilitate the recovery of dopaminergic functions and gene expression."

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4535343/

    https://liftmode.com/sleep-capsules-120-count.html
    This sleep inducing pill contains L-thp

    Vitamin D

    "Vitamin D is a potent inducer of endogenous GDNF. The most prominent feature of GDNF is its ability to support the survival of dopaminergic neurons. GDNF is involved in the development of the dopaminergic pathways and regulates dopaminergic cell apoptosis in the substantia nigra in the immediate postnatal period [13]. It has been shown that DVD-deficient neonatal rats have reduced expression of GDNF in the cerebrum [13]. The development of the dopaminergic neurons within the ventral tegmental area (VTA) can be influenced by altered GDNF, leading to an altered DA release within the ‘nucleus accumbens’. It has been speculated that the orderly development of the dopaminergic pathways may be altered because of hypovitaminosis D-induced reductions in GDNF [13]."

    "Effective pharmacological treatments for drug abuse and addiction have not yet been identified. Evidences show that vitamin D may be involved in neurodevelopment and may have a neuroprotective effect on dopaminergic pathways in the adult brain. The fact that vitamin D increases the levels of tyrosine hydroxylase expression implies that vitamin D could modulate dopaminergic processes. Drugs of abuse act through different mechanisms of action and on different locations in the brain reward system; however, all of them share a final action in which they increase dopamine levels in the reward pathway. Vitamin D-treated animals showed significant attenuated methamphetamine-induced reductions in dopamine and metabolites when compared to control, indicating that vitamin D provides protection for the dopaminergic system against the depleting effects of methamphetamine. In this article, it is speculated that vitamin D would be an effective treatment approach for drug abuse and addiction, if we consider that vitamin D would provide protection for the dopaminergic system against dopamine-depleting effects of drugs, as it did for methamphetamine. This hypothesis can provide a new direction towards a new treatment approach for drug abuse and addiction, as we have no pharmacological treatments at our disposal at the present moment, although several issues need further investigation."

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2251729413000050

    Exercise also increases GDNF, BDNF and dopamine d2 expression in the brain.

    A more drastic approach would be ibogaine

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3682485/
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  8. Mattew

    Mattew Fapstronaut

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  9. whoami33

    whoami33 Fapstronaut

    71)Watch this if you are facing Depression, anhedonia

    part of being ashamed of depression is trying to fix everything wrong about oneself ASAP, as if there is something wrong about me as depressed person which is not wrong about others and i should cover my short coming as much as i can and find it and solve it.



    from 70 tips thread.

    if you can agree with this please share either this post or in your own words about it in your journals and PAWS threads. this way others can read about it and feel less miserable.

    @Big Lebowski @im_broken @Mattew @SLeepisLost @Gota @BeanBurrito @Swagnation @TimeToChange59837 @bken @Freeddom_Taker @jorg78 @DarkSektur @SanctionedUser001 @mgz069 @Ezpz @JJackson @Seven_ @persevereuntildeath @SanctionedUser001 @Clean Plate @JJackson @MarinoBigFan1984 @sherif1987 @BeanBurrito @Dagger323 @overclocked @diddykong @Anurag12 @Joe from China @Sprinter123 @pranav02 @topilabv @Warrior1995 @TantusJulius @muted
     
  10. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    Ten years??? Is this possible for PIED symptoms, then?
     
  11. whoami33

    whoami33 Fapstronaut

    i dont think this to happen in PMO case, ten years is probably for those who used to drink alcohol 24/7. pmo imo cant destry brain that much.
    also the rebbot even thought its not linear but take a look at the red graph (https://itlab.us/Guarded_Receptor_files/image006.gif) which is reverse exponential it may take forever for red graph to reach to 1 but so what? if we assume x axis as time then after 1/5 of the time we have reached to nearly end of reboot.
     
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  12. Mattew

    Mattew Fapstronaut

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    No man, don't freak out, these are studies about alcoholics, it's totally another thing.

    Don't worry, your ed will heal, just stick with nofap.
     
  13. David1221

    David1221 Fapstronaut

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    bro these symptoms are what causes me to relapse. It's not even the porn anymore man, I can handle the urges, temptations etc. and the thing is, what gets me so worked up is that the symptoms tend to peak and get worse as the weeks go on. It's fucking hard, makes me want to break down at times
     
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  14. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    What has helped me battling my clinical depression/ social anxiety/wild mood swings and chronic pain has been Dr. Stephen Ilardi's 6-Step Program to Beat Depression Without Drugs (7th step of abstaining from PMO added by me. But he also says you need to address your addiction problem, if you have it):

    1. Physical Activity (Exercise) - exercise on daily basis (raises endorphins)
    2. Omega-3 Fatty Acids - fish oil (raises levels of EPA and DHA)
    3. Sunlight - sunbathing for 10-30 min a day (raises levels of Vitamin D)
    4. Healthy Sleep - 7-9 hours of regular night sleep (lowers levels of cortisol-stress hormon)
    5. Anti-Ruminative Activity - when you start having worries and negative thoughts start doing samething physical to redirect and occupy your mind
    6. Social Connection - find friends, go out, do things, have fun
    (7. no PMO) - The obvious one (stops hitting your brain with dopamine via porn. Constant dopamine high raises the bar on the level of excitement needed to actually feel pleasure)

    For me it works way better than drugs. The hard part of the program is being disciplined enough to follow these steps even when you're totally depressed-hardly moving around, but it's totally worth it. I can't explain how, but following these steps raises my energy levels from zero to feeling above my crappy average in a matter of week, when SSRI drugs needed months to do the same for me. And the good thing is there are no side effects. Instead of getting fat on pills you're actually getting fit and ripped by daily exercise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  15. Fallensoldier1

    Fallensoldier1 Fapstronaut

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    I’m wondering if I’m in this same boat as well. It’s been a rollercoaster with some moments and days of healing, but for the most part it’s been hell. And I keep going back and forth wondering if PMO is my main problem.

    My main symptoms still are fatigue, depression, high stress and anxiety, loss of interest in stuff, headaches, sometimes feel bloated with stomach cramps, possibly from stress, don’t sleep well, I wake up a lot, sometimes feel a little light headed, mood swings, dry mouth and times of feeling really thirsty, pressure in my face around eyes and teeth, but that could be sinus related, I’ve had a history of sinus problems, unless it is just from pmo, heart palpitations, and sometimes low libido.

    I never have symptoms of PIED, and sometimes I wake up and have erections, but lately I have noticed I haven’t been as much. Not so much today, but these last few days I have been desiring P again, hard! So I’ve been thinking about it and I accidentally saw a couple gifs of a women dressed and not naked, but very sexy, and I feel like it almost put me in a trance.

    Curious as to if that’s why these last couple days I’ve been feeling like trash again.

    A lot of people say hardmode is the best way to heal faster, but I feel like if I could have normal healthy sex, it might help me heal faster.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  16. Depressed&Out

    Depressed&Out Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, I've been in the flatline since 2011 (but I didn't know about PIED, nor did I notice the flatline as it just felt 'normal', until the start of 2017), and I don't have any libido, any spontaneous erections and little MW (when I get MW, it's only about 1-2 erection strength), but I still intend to go dating women - I believe, even though I'm in a deep flatline that is showing no signs of going away, light sex is better for me than hardmode.
     
  17. bken

    bken Fapstronaut

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    Great but why not add 8. Eat an unrefined/unprocessed diet to the list?
     
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  18. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    I don't know why he didn't add healthy food. I have a garden and buy most food from local farmers so I do eat unprocessed food most of the time already, so I didn't even think about it. But I agree, eating heathy is important.
     
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  19. I don't even wanna know the symptoms :D
    But I want to be post-acute !!!

    I'll be back when I'm post-acute and in case I get serious symptoms :p
     
  20. Ezpz

    Ezpz Fapstronaut

    For me personally i can find it hard to tell what is truly going on when im going through such PAWS symptoms. Its only when i get those days where things feel almost normal to me that i gain some perspective on whats going on.

    Ive put most of the symptoms that i get these days, and most of the symptoms from PAWS down to the fact that my body and mind is constantly in a high stress / fight or flight state due to the fact of all the changes ive made in my life. The body and mind is trying to adapt to all the new emotions and stressors.

    The best possible thing you can do is reduce your stress levels as much as you can and it will make things more managable
     

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